# Do blacks really have 70% illigitimate births?
**URL:** https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-blacks-really-have-70-illigitimate-births/340566
**Category:** Great Debates
**Created:** [January 18, 2006, 10:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-blacks-really-have-70-illigitimate-births/340566 "2006-01-18T22:40:41Z")
**Posts on this page:** 20
**Page:** 1
### Author:  [@Argent\_Towers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Argent_Towers)
#### Post date: [January 18, 2006, 10:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-blacks-really-have-70-illigitimate-births/340566/1 "2006-01-18T22:40:41Z")
I read something about NO mayor Ray Nagin citing this statistic of 70 percent of black children growing up with one parent - obviously Nagin doesn’t seem like the most trustworthy person, but I have definitely seen or heard this “70 percent” statistic elsewhere on several occasions.
This seems ridiculously high to me. 70 percent?
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### Author:  [@Argent\_Towers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Argent_Towers)
#### Post date: [January 18, 2006, 10:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-blacks-really-have-70-illigitimate-births/340566/2 "2006-01-18T22:47:19Z")
I meant to post this in General Questions, actually, but if I did, the discussion might well turn into a debate anyway. Maybe it’s better off here, I don’t know. I’m looking for a factual answer.
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### Author:  [@middleman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/middleman)
#### Post date: [January 18, 2006, 10:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-blacks-really-have-70-illigitimate-births/340566/3 "2006-01-18T22:49:58Z")
Growing up with one parent does not equal illegitimacy.
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### Author:  [@jimmmy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jimmmy)
#### Post date: [January 18, 2006, 10:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-blacks-really-have-70-illigitimate-births/340566/4 "2006-01-18T22:56:24Z")
What **middleman** says. [According to the U.S. Census](http://www.census.gov/population/www/documentation/twps0020/table2.html) if you are using a definition of Women having a baby who are not married was about 76% for Blacks in 1990-94, 32% for whites in the same period and 40% for Hispanics.
These aren’t teen mothers – the abstract makes clear that Premarital childbearing is on the rise among older women as well.
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### Author:  [@jimmmy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jimmmy)
#### Post date: [January 18, 2006, 10:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-blacks-really-have-70-illigitimate-births/340566/5 "2006-01-18T22:57:32Z")
"these aren’t **ALL** teen mothers
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### Author:  [@astro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/astro)
#### Post date: [January 18, 2006, 10:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-blacks-really-have-70-illigitimate-births/340566/6 "2006-01-18T22:59:32Z")
[Living Arrangements of Black Children](http://www.jointcenter.org/DB/factsheet/livarg.htm)
> [@](#):
>
> Living Arrangements of Black Children
>
> Since 1960, the proportion of black children living with a single parent more than doubled, from 22% to 53.3% in 2000. Since 1980, more black children have lived with a single parent than with two parents (42% versus 45% respectively) in 1980, and since 1983, the majority (at least 53.6%) have lived with a single parent.
>
> The proportion of black children living with two parents declined most sharply in the 1970’s, falling more than 25% from 58% in 1970 to 43% in 1979. The percentage living with a single parent increased from 31% to 44% during that same period. \* In 1995, the percentage of black children living in two-parent homes reached a historic low of 33%, only half the percentage (67%) in 1960. From 1996 to 2000, this rose to about 37.6% the proportion of black children living with one parent stabilized at about 57% between the years 1996-1999 and then dropped slightly to 53.3% in 2000.
>
> Since 1980, the majority of black children have lived in single-mother households, which currently constitutes 92% of all black single-parent households. Single-father households are the fastest growing type in the total population constituting 16% of all single-parent families but only 8% of those where the father was black.
>
> In 2000, 7.7% of black children lived with relatives rather than a mother or father, and about 1.5% resided with non-relatives. These percentages rose in the late 1970’s and in the early 1980’s before declining from 1995 to 2000.
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### Author:  [@light\_strand](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/light_strand)
#### Post date: [January 18, 2006, 11:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-blacks-really-have-70-illigitimate-births/340566/7 "2006-01-18T23:35:55Z")
> [@jimmmy](#):
>
> What **middleman** says. [According to the U.S. Census](http://www.census.gov/population/www/documentation/twps0020/table2.html) if you are using a definition of Women having a baby who are not married was about 76% for Blacks in 1990-94, 32% for whites in the same period and 40% for Hispanics.
> These aren’t teen mothers – the abstract makes clear that Premarital childbearing is on the rise among older women as well.
Just for clarification (and God forbid the census tell you anything but numbers), it appears that the ~76% is not for total births, but for births in the black community.
So even if you go by these numbers and blacks are ~10% of the population, and … oh screw it. Someone else is going to have to actually crunch the numbers. However, it doesn’t seem possible that the numbers could work out to blacks accounting for 70% of total illegitimate births.
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### Author:  [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)
#### Post date: [January 18, 2006, 11:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-blacks-really-have-70-illigitimate-births/340566/8 "2006-01-18T23:46:47Z")
> [@light strand](#):
>
> However, it doesn’t seem possible that the numbers could work out to blacks accounting for 70% of total illegitimate births.
I don’t think anyone is saying 70% of illegitimate births are of black babies, rather that 70% of black babies are illegitimate.
Not that I’m supporting the premise, merely pointing out a flaw in your statement.
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### Author:  [@MLS](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MLS)
#### Post date: [January 19, 2006, 12:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-blacks-really-have-70-illigitimate-births/340566/9 "2006-01-19T00:36:17Z")
The census site doesn’t say that 70% of black babies are illegitimate. The chart lists “Marital Status of Women at First Birth by Race.” \*\*First \*\* birth. Not \*\*all \*\* births. Each one of those women accounted for in the chart could have gotten married later. Or not. Each could have gone on to have zero or any other number of babies later, either while still unwed or after a marriage. That data is not captured.
It is very important when evaluating statistics to be sure you know and understand the question being asked.
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### Author:  [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)
#### Post date: [January 19, 2006, 12:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-blacks-really-have-70-illigitimate-births/340566/10 "2006-01-19T00:40:17Z")
Can we please stipulate that the designation “illegitimate” is an anachronistic and inappropriate term to apply to children?
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### Author:  [@FriarTed](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FriarTed)
#### Post date: [January 19, 2006, 4:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-blacks-really-have-70-illigitimate-births/340566/11 "2006-01-19T04:53:45Z")
> [@Diogenes the Cynic](#):
>
> Can we please stipulate that the designation “illegitimate” is an anachronistic and inappropriate term to apply to children?
Can we apply it to the parents?
I’d like to shelve the word permanently but we need a good substitute.
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### Author:  [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)
#### Post date: [January 19, 2006, 5:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-blacks-really-have-70-illigitimate-births/340566/12 "2006-01-19T05:05:21Z")
> [@FriarTed](#):
>
> Can we apply it to the parents?
In many cases, absolutely. As liberal as I am, I still strongly dislike people who are irresponsible and thoughtless about bringining innocent children into the world without a stable family system in place to support them. There is a minority of cases, though, where both parents are present and accountable, they’re just not legally married.
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### Author:  [@Freddy\_the\_Pig](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Freddy_the_Pig)
#### Post date: [January 19, 2006, 2:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-blacks-really-have-70-illigitimate-births/340566/13 "2006-01-19T14:29:42Z")
Here is the link you want, folks: National Center for Health Statistics, [percentage of births to unmarried mothers](http://www.cdc.gov/nchs/data/hestat/prelimbirth04_tables.pdf), 2004 (PDF). For “non-Hispanic blacks”, 69.2%.
A depressing statistic any way you label it.
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### Author:  [@gigi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gigi)
#### Post date: [January 19, 2006, 3:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-blacks-really-have-70-illigitimate-births/340566/14 "2006-01-19T15:46:10Z")
> [@Diogenes the Cynic](#):
>
> In many cases, absolutely. As liberal as I am, I still strongly dislike people who are irresponsible and thoughtless about bringining innocent children into the world without a stable family system in place to support them. There is a minority of cases, though, where both parents are present and accountable, they’re just not legally married.
Or there is an extended family on the mother’s side who helps out and does provide stability.
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### Author:  [@even\_sven](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/even_sven)
#### Post date: [January 19, 2006, 5:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-blacks-really-have-70-illigitimate-births/340566/15 "2006-01-19T17:17:52Z")
> [@gigi](#):
>
> Or there is an extended family on the mother’s side who helps out and does provide stability.
That is a key point. Instead of framing this as a “bad” social trend, we can look at it as a new social trend. A new form of families has emerged- one where grandparents play a large role and woman-led households are the norm. Many African-American men right now are considered to be bad marriage prospects by African-American women. And in some communities, men are in short supply. So a new form of childbearing has arisen- one where the exended family is very important.
Instead of condemning it, we can look for ways to make it a better system. Right now our system works best with a two-parent husand-works wife-stays-at-home plan. But it’s not inconcievable to make a system where single parent and extended family is well-supported. This can be as simple as increasing daycare options, giving tax benefits to child-raising grandparents, building housing with additional rooms in the place of a large master suite. The only limit is our imagination.
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### Author:  [@Debaser](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Debaser)
#### Post date: [January 19, 2006, 6:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-blacks-really-have-70-illigitimate-births/340566/16 "2006-01-19T18:37:22Z")
> [@even sven](#):
>
> The only limit is our imagination.
Cut welfare. Stop subsidizing poverty and you’ll see less of it. If people know that there is a safety net, they will be more willing to have babies that they can’t pay for.
It’s a huge elephant in the room in America right now: The fact that black people don’t get married before they have babies is the reason for their misfortune, not racism or society keeping them down.
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### Author:  [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)
#### Post date: [January 19, 2006, 6:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-blacks-really-have-70-illigitimate-births/340566/17 "2006-01-19T18:41:45Z")
Welfare was cut a long time ago. It accomplished nothing. People don’t fuck because they’re thinking about “safety nets.” The problem is lack of education about contraception, lack of _access_ to contraception (including _emergency_ contraception, and not enough ease and availability of abortion.
> [@Debaser](#):
>
> The fact that black people don’t get married before they have babies is the reason for their misfortune, not racism or society keeping them down.
Cite?
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### Author:  [@Debaser](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Debaser)
#### Post date: [January 19, 2006, 7:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-blacks-really-have-70-illigitimate-births/340566/18 "2006-01-19T19:14:10Z")
> [@Diogenes the Cynic](#):
>
> The problem is lack of education about contraception, lack of _access_ to contraception (including _emergency_ contraception, and not enough ease and availability of abortion.
Cite?
Abortions are easy and are available. People are informed about contraception. When three quarters of blacks aren’t bothering to find a husband before having a kid, the problem is way beyond birth control.
I’m not even going to bother explaining to you that I don’t need to find a cite for my opinion from my earlier post. After 17,000 posts, you already know this.
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### Author:  [@Askia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Askia)
#### Post date: [January 19, 2006, 7:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-blacks-really-have-70-illigitimate-births/340566/19 "2006-01-19T19:42:17Z")
> [@Debaser](#):
>
> It’s a huge elephant in the room in America right now: The fact that black people don’t get married before they have babies is the reason for their misfortune, not racism or society keeping them down.
It’s not “the” reason. “The” reason is a socioeconomic culture that, for more than half of us, embraces the lifestyle of generational poverty as a norm, going back to slavery. Admittedly, spitting out unplanned-for babies with no resources for adequate and affordable child care ain’t gonna help you move on up.
Biggest proof? Blacks from other countries, by and large, don’t pull the shit African-Americans have been doing to ourselves.
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### Author:  [@Debaser](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Debaser)
#### Post date: [January 19, 2006, 7:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-blacks-really-have-70-illigitimate-births/340566/20 "2006-01-19T19:50:39Z")
> [@Askia](#):
>
> It’s not “the” reason.
Meh. I’d argue that having illigitimate babies on such a massive scale basically _is_ “embracing the lifestyle of generational poverty as a norm”.
I can’t find a cite on it, but I’ve heard on the news that blacks who are married basically make the same incomes as whites. (It’s slightly lower, but that makes sense because of demographics. Blacks tend to live in the south, where incomes are lower.) The reason for the overall differences in wages is because having a kid out of wedlock is a great way to ensure that you will have a low income for the rest of your life.
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