Do British and Irish people have a hard time understanding Americans speak?

[Capt.Ridley_s_Shooting_Party]

Manchestrian

Mancunian.

[Cisco]

@Mississippienne

The point we’re making is – Da da da DA – that your concept of a neutral American accent east of the Mississippi is nonsense. It’s not spoken any more phonetically than your ‘English’ example was. Take a look at a map and see where MS is. .

Well I certainly apologize for withholding judgement of you. I can’t imagine why people in this thread feel the need to act so rude and snarky. I’m just asking questions here and I admitted right off the bat that I am biased by birth and everything I was saying was only my perceptions, thoughts, and opinions.

I guess I just need to go look at a map though, because once I solve the age-old mystery of where Mississippi is located, this will all make sense :rolleyes:.

[Acsenray]

@Wendell_Wagner

If you were to use the grammar, vocabulary, etc. of Standard British English but used the pronunciation of Scouse or Manc or some Scottish area,

Wouldn’t you say that Tony Blair and Gordon Brown (when speaking in public anyway) are both speaking Standard British English with two different accents?

You will also notice that B.B.C. newsreaders all speak in Standard British English dialect, but many of them use regional accents.

what people would probably say about you is that you sound like an educated Scouser or Manchestrian or Scot who has wiped out any nonstandard grammar, vocabulary, etc. from his speech but who continues to ue Scouse, Manc, or Scottish pronunciation.

And so you’ve perfectly distinguished accents and dialects.

There is an accent (i.e., a way of pronouncing words) for Standard British English

There is a single accent for Standard British English? Whose is it then? Elizabeth II’s? Tony Blair’s? Bertie Wooster’s? Sean Connery’s? Peter Cook’s? Frank Muir’s? Sloane Ranger? They don’t all have the same accent, but they are generally speaking Standard British English dialect.

Similarly, if you were a foreigner learning English (in the U.S. or in some country where you were told that you were learning American English), you would be taught to speak the pronunciations of Standard American English.

There is a Standard American English dialect, but there is no Standard American English accent. People keep talking about “newscasterese,” but few people seem to notice that our newscasters don’t sound exactly the same.

[SomeBodyUK]

I’m a Brit, I’ve never had problems understanding Americans speak. Some terms are a bit vague to me and I occasionally have to ask them to clarify. e.g I no idea what “layaway” or “bunt” meant before I came to the US.

When speaking to an American, I use American terms instead to simplify things, e.g. “cell” instead of “mobile”.

I’ll never say “zee” instead of “zed”, that’s a step too far in my book.

[Acsenray]

@SomeBodyUK

I no idea what “layaway” or “bunt” meant before I came to the US.

Well, “bunt” is sports jargon, so it’s not surprising that it was unfamiliar.

What’s the British term for what we call “layaway” (for those who don’t know, it’s essentially an interest-free installment payment plan – very often for furniture items – in which until the full price is paid off, the goods are kept in storage by the merchant).

[bordelond]

@Mississippienne

The point we’re making is – Da da da DA – that your concept of a neutral American accent east of the Mississippi is nonsense.

Cisco had written “west of the Mississippi”, no?

And very roughly, his point holds up. There is a large contiguous area of the American West/MidWest in which the spoken dialect varies little. For instance, IMHO the speech of folks from Omaha, NE and Flagstaff, AZ – the cadence, vowel sounds, stress patterns and such – don’t sound all that different (not counting slang/regionalisms) despite the geographical distance. Whatever differences there are, they are much smaller than the differences between, say, Bostonian and Brooklynese … or the speech in Acadiana (in Louisiana) and the “yat” speech in New Orleans.

[GorillaMan]

@Wendell_Wagner

If you were a foreigner learning English (in the U.K. or in some country where you wer told that you were learning British English) from a typical course, you would be taught to speak the pronunciations of Standard British English.

What’s your Standard British English pronuncation of ‘bath’?

[Indistinguishable]

@bordelond

And very roughly, his point holds up. There is a large contiguous area of the American West/MidWest in which the spoken dialect varies little. For instance, IMHO the speech of folks from Omaha, NE and Flagstaff, AZ – the cadence, vowel sounds, stress patterns and such – don’t sound all that different (not counting slang/regionalisms) despite the geographical distance. Whatever differences there are, they are much smaller than the differences between, say, Bostonian and Brooklynese … or the speech in Acadiana (in Louisiana) and the “yat” speech in New Orleans.

Sure, the accent density lowers (just as the state density and population density lower, as well). But it’s not as though accent differences aren’t still found in that huge area; everyone pointing out how not all Californians have a “Californian surfer dude” accent is simply confirming this fact. People in Oregon don’t sound like people in Texas; hell, people in Bakersfield don’t sound like people in San Francisco.

[panamajack]

As a help to try to get people to understand what you’re hearing when you write in text, there is the IPA. It can be properly rendered in Unicode, but there’s also an ASCII representation that is a bit easier if you’re unfamiliar with the glyphs.

Here’s an introduction to ASCII IPA

Despite how it looks, it’s not too tough to write something in it. The difficulty may be that not many people will understand it at first glance. However, since it is a standard, they are at least capable of figuring it out without problems.

Bear in mind that there are subtle differences that are tough to convey even in IPA. It’s not a perfect method; it’s just better than relying on written English alone.

Here’s an example that would avoid confusion previously in the thread:
Nevada
[Ne’vA:d@] - as pronounced by those outside the region
[Ne’v&d@] - as pronounced by those within the region

Here’s a crude attempt at the sentence previously brought up. I purposely exaggerated the differences in accent. I’m no linguist, so it’s easy to find fault with this too:

He thinks all short men sit on their laurels all day.

[hi: TINks A:l SO:rt mEn sIt A:n DeIr 'lO:rEls A:l deI] - American

[hi: TENks O:l SO:t mEn sIt A.:n DeI@ 'lA:r@ls O:l deI] - BBC English

[i: TENks O:l SO:t mEin sIt A.n DeI 'lA.:r@s O:l dAi] - “London” accent

[hi: TINks A:l SO:rt m@n sIt An DeIr 'loUr@ls A:l dEI] - how I (American) would say it conversationally (I often have great difficulty with ‘r’, so ‘laurel’ is a tough word for me).

[i: fINks a:U SO:t mEn sIt A.n veIr 'lA.:r@s a:U deI] - a guess at Cisco’s version.
Note that comparing the spelling of the words to their rendering in this fashion (or in IPA) to see what’s “proper” would be rather silly, as what correspondence there is doesn’t mean much.

[WotNot]

@Wendell_Wagner

I think I disagree. If you were to use the grammar, vocabulary, etc. of Standard British English but used the pronunciation of Scouse or Manc or some Scottish area, what people would probably say about you is that you sound like an educated Scouser or Manchestrian or Scot who has wiped out any nonstandard grammar, vocabulary, etc. from his speech but who continues to ue Scouse, Manc, or Scottish pronunciation. That happens occasionally. That’s not what is usually meant by Standard British English though. There is an accent (i.e., a way of pronouncing words) for Standard British English which is not the same as Scouse, Manc, or Scottish English. If you were a foreigner learning English (in the U.K. or in some country where you wer told that you were learning British English) from a typical course, you would be taught to speak the pronunciations of Standard British English. Similarly, if you were a foreigner learning English (in the U.S. or in some country where you were told that you were learning American English), you would be taught to speak the pronunciations of Standard American English.

Sorry, Wendell, but this is just wrong. Standard British English is a dialect. The usual standard for pronunciation (for those learning British English as a foreign language, for instance) is Received Pronunciation, which is the accent you’re thinking of.

[Indistinguishable]

Of course, there is the problem of proliferation of standards; should discussion be carried out in Kirshenbaum or X-SAMPA by default? (Hell, we can use straight-up Unicode IPA on these boards, I think). Still, you bring a tear of joy to my eyes, panamajack.

[bordelond]

@Indistinguishable

But it’s not as though accent differences aren’t still found in that huge area; everyone pointing out how not all Californians have a “Californian surfer dude” accent is simply confirming this fact. People in Oregon don’t sound like people in Texas; hell, people in Bakersfield don’t sound like people in San Francisco.

In my earlier post, I originally intended to define the contiguous area of the American West in which everyone largely “sounds the same”. I thought through it a bit, and rejected the definition as too complicated, and opted instead to go for the Flagstaff/Omaha thing.

However, had I gone through with definition of the west-of-the-Mississippi homogenous speech area in question, the following areas would have been specifically excluded: the entire Pacific Coast, Texas, Oklahoma, Louisiana, Arkansas, southern Missouri, the St. Louis metro area, and the pockets of Minnesota and the Dakotas populated and influenced by descendents of Scandinavian immigrants.

You’re examples are spot on.

[MarcusF]

*Originally posted by *ascenray:
What’s the British term for what we call “layaway” (for those who don’t know, it’s essentially an interest-free installment payment plan – very often for furniture items – in which until the full price is paid off, the goods are kept in storage by the merchant).

I don’t think there is an equivalent. When I’ve heard layaway used on screen I’ve mentally translated it as “hire-purchase” but that is not as described (the goods are delivered immediately - not stored - and interest is charged).

[put_down_the_sabre]

I speak with an Oxford/BBC British accent, and live surrounded by educated people in the US. They regularly ask me to repeat myself, though this is often due to word choice rather than pure pronunciation issues.

Example: if I were to say ‘pull it out’, my USian friends would understand me perfectly. The other day, I described someone as being ‘on the pull’, which they heard as ‘on the pole’ (with hilarious consequences).

Generally, I have no problems understanding Americans, though as the sort who would up and live here perhaps I am selected for. Exceptions are phrases I sometimes don’t appreciate the nuances of, recently including ‘grandfathered in’ and ‘tarbaby’.

pdts

[An_Gadai]

@MarcusF

I don’t think there is an equivalent. When I’ve heard layaway used on screen I’ve mentally translated it as “hire-purchase” but that is not as described (the goods are delivered immediately - not stored - and interest is charged).

“I have a deposit on it”?

[An_Gadai]

He Thinks All Short Men Rest On Their Laurels: An Accents Thread

Record you saying the sentence and post it online, then stick a link in that thread.
Come on!

[Mangetout]

@acsenray

What’s the British term for what we call “layaway” (for those who don’t know, it’s essentially an interest-free installment payment plan – very often for furniture items – in which until the full price is paid off, the goods are kept in storage by the merchant).

I’m not even sure plans like that have ever been popular or even available in Britain. Hire purchase (also known as ‘the never never’) has been common - interest-free ‘buy now, pay later’ plans are quite prevalent at the moment, but always the customer gets the goods at the start.

Christmas clubs are about the closest thing I can think of but those are not specific of any chosen goods (just a savings plan). There are also hamper clubs, but those are highly specific to one kind of product (a seasonal food hamper).

[Sleel]

@acsenray

There is a Standard American English dialect, but there is no Standard American English accent. People keep talking about “newscasterese,” but few people seem to notice that our newscasters don’t sound exactly the same.

This is basically what I was saying, though I probably should have put more detail into my earlier response. There’s no formal definition for a standard dialect in any form of English, unlike, say French or Japanese which actually have guidelines for what is an “acceptable” formation. Outwardly imposed language standards have very little effect on what kind of language people actually use, though. The idea of a standard dialect is a social construct to begin with, and very, very few people speak anything like a perfect model of that dialect.

[Bam_Boo_Gut]

@put_down_the_sabre

I speak with an Oxford/BBC British accent, and live surrounded by educated people in the US. They regularly ask me to repeat myself, though this is often due to word choice rather than pure pronunciation issues.

Example: if I were to say ‘pull it out’, my USian friends would understand me perfectly. The other day, I described someone as being ‘on the pull’, which they heard as ‘on the pole’ (with hilarious consequences).

Generally, I have no problems understanding Americans, though as the sort who would up and live here perhaps I am selected for. Exceptions are phrases I sometimes don’t appreciate the nuances of, recently including ‘grandfathered in’ and ‘tarbaby’.

pdts

Oxford town or Oxford Gown?

[Bam_Boo_Gut]

I hope someone is able to unearth the Strabane charachter - it was hilarious!

Scottish Sobriety Test - I’d say most of us could understand this one…

http://www.google.com/search?sourceid=navclient&aq=t&ie=UTF-8&rlz=1T4GGIK_enAG271BB275&q=sobriety+test