# Do British Catholics Sing 'God Save the Queen'? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [April 2, 2021, 10:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-british-catholics-sing-god-save-the-queen/939274 "2021-04-02T22:42:55Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 11\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![bob\_2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bob_2/32/3341_2.png) [@bob\_2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bob_2)\ **Post date:** [April 8, 2021, 9:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-british-catholics-sing-god-save-the-queen/939274/21 "2021-04-08T09:20:16Z")
> [@bob\_2](#): > > When I was a teenager, the anthem was played in cinemas at the end of every performance. Even then, most people ignored it and just trooped out. The BBC played it too, at around midnight when it closed down for the night. Bearing in mind that this would have been only a decade after WW2, we would be glared at by some of the ex-service people in the theatre who would have been standing at attention. “Kids today; no respect,” may have been muttered. ---
**Author:** ![PatrickLondon](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/patricklondon/32/4422_2.png) [@PatrickLondon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PatrickLondon)\ **Post date:** [April 8, 2021, 10:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-british-catholics-sing-god-save-the-queen/939274/22 "2021-04-08T10:39:55Z")
> [@Andy\_L](#): > > Bradbury wrote a story “The Anthem Sprinters” about Irish folks who made it a personal challenge to escape the theatre as fast as possible after the end of the movie, The “closing time gallop” was a commonplace joke pretty well throughout the UK, as people tried not to miss “last orders” in the pub, or the last bus home. It features in one scene in "The Smallest Show on Earth (1957) and an episode of Dad’s Army (1972, but set in 1941). ---
**Author:** ![APB](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/8e8cbc/32.png) [@APB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/APB)\ **Post date:** [April 8, 2021, 1:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-british-catholics-sing-god-save-the-queen/939274/23 "2021-04-08T13:49:03Z")
> [@dtilque](#): > > In the second verse of the original lyrics, there was the line “Frustrate their papist tricks”. This was written during the most recent Jacobite uprising. The word “papist” has since been changed to “knavish”, but I believe that’s a fairly recent change. But I understand the second verse is rarely sung, so it’s not a big deal. Not true. The earliest versions of the lyrics, which appeared in [_Thesaurus Musicus_](https://archive.org/details/thesaurusmusicus00lamp/page/22/mode/1up) and the [_Gentleman’s Magazine_](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/God_Save_the_Queen#/media/File:Gstk.png), have ‘Frustrate their knavish Tricks’. ---
**Author:** ![dtilque](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/d6d6ee/32.png) [@dtilque](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dtilque)\ **Post date:** [April 8, 2021, 4:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-british-catholics-sing-god-save-the-queen/939274/24 "2021-04-08T16:34:34Z")
First I had the offending line wrong; it should be “Frustrate their popish tricks”. And lots of people out there claim it was George V who caused the word to change to “knavish”. So maybe it got changed somewhere along the line and he just wanted it to revert to the true original. ---
**Author:** ![SciFiSam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/47e85d/32.png) [@SciFiSam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SciFiSam)\ **Post date:** [April 8, 2021, 10:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-british-catholics-sing-god-save-the-queen/939274/25 "2021-04-08T22:20:50Z")
Or maybe it’s just an urban legend? I mean, the last Jacobite uprising was in 1745, which was also when that hymn was written, and it definitely said knavish, not Popish. ---
**Author:** ![dtilque](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/d6d6ee/32.png) [@dtilque](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dtilque)\ **Post date:** [April 8, 2021, 10:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-british-catholics-sing-god-save-the-queen/939274/26 "2021-04-08T22:46:47Z")
You can find examples of the lyrics from in between 1745 and George V’s time that say ‘popish’. I found one in a quick google. So it’s not an urban legend that the word was in the lyrics. ---
**Author:** ![SciFiSam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/47e85d/32.png) [@SciFiSam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SciFiSam)\ **Post date:** [April 8, 2021, 11:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-british-catholics-sing-god-save-the-queen/939274/27 "2021-04-08T23:07:23Z")
Interesting, I had a look and all I could find was people claiming that the word had been used, with no actual texts cited or shown. What’s the one you found, please? ---
**Author:** ![dtilque](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/d6d6ee/32.png) [@dtilque](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dtilque)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2021, 12:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-british-catholics-sing-god-save-the-queen/939274/28 "2021-04-09T00:04:52Z")
[Here’s one](https://www.google.com/books/edition/Choice_Descriptive_Poetry/3B9YAAAAcAAJ?hl=en&gbpv=1&dq=Frustrate+their+popish+tricks%E2%80%9D.&pg=PA92&printsec=frontcover). [Here’s another](https://www.google.com/books/edition/Choice_descriptive_poetry_selected_by_a/fpICAAAAQAAJ?hl=en&gbpv=1&dq=Frustrate+their+popish+tricks%E2%80%9D.&pg=PA92&printsec=frontcover). I think this was the one I found before, but am not certain. ---
**Author:** ![SciFiSam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/47e85d/32.png) [@SciFiSam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SciFiSam)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2021, 1:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-british-catholics-sing-god-save-the-queen/939274/29 "2021-04-09T01:22:02Z")
I think they’re the same book. But yeah, that line does appear there. As does a final refrain I’ve never seen anywhere. So fair enough, someone at least sang it that way. But it wasn’t the version sung as the actual national anthem - that seems to have varied in detail, but never actually included the Scots version, or the knavish version let alone the Popish one, when it was sung on official occasions. ---
**Author:** ![PatrickLondon](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/patricklondon/32/4422_2.png) [@PatrickLondon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PatrickLondon)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2021, 6:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-british-catholics-sing-god-save-the-queen/939274/30 "2021-04-09T06:06:46Z")
[https://www.historytoday.com/archive/god-save-queen-history-national-anthem](https://www.historytoday.com/archive/god-save-queen-history-national-anthem) The whole notion of a “national anthem” didn’t surface till nearly a century after the end of the political situation in which the song originated. Indeed, it’s possible it was first written as a song in support of the Catholic James II. There have been various alternative forms of words, but it’s quite rare for it to be played, let alone sung, for more than one verse: and the most common use of the latter is the Britten choral arrangement which defers the bombast to the interestingly conditional verse "_May she defend our laws And ever give us cause To sing with heart and voice God save the Queen_ ---
**Author:** ![Melbourne](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/b5e925/32.png) [@Melbourne](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Melbourne)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2021, 6:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-british-catholics-sing-god-save-the-queen/939274/31 "2021-04-09T06:33:14Z")
Stuff I’ve read suggests that “The National Anthem” was the melody, still played as such, and when “God Save the King” appeared in the back of the new Anglican hymn book, “Hymns Ancient and Modern”, it was a set of words to go with the melody. (There was no ‘old Anglican hymn book’, because the Church of England didn’t sing hymns in services until after the practice became popular in the non-conformist/dissenting church.) [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-british-catholics-sing-god-save-the-queen/939274.md?page=1)