# Do Cars Need Front Grilles Anymore? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [December 9, 2011, 1:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-cars-need-front-grilles-anymore/605614 "2011-12-09T13:32:40Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 10\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![kferr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/71e660/32.png) [@kferr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kferr)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2011, 10:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-cars-need-front-grilles-anymore/605614/21 "2011-12-10T10:46:10Z")
> [@jz78817](#): > > this makes no sense whatsoever. > > They’re “copying” the design because people like the way it looks, and because the grille and associated components have been a visible part of cars’ overall look since the automobile has been in existence. Many manufacturers have settled on a design “theme” for the grille (Lincoln, Acura, Rolls-Royce, etc.) and is part of their signature style. And it’s quite possible to have said grille on the front and still manage the desired aerodynamics. That you personally find them “ugly and unnecessary” has nothing to do with the market at large. This. A BMW would be unrecognizable without its distinctive “double kidney” grille. Even the older 8 series with the pointy nose and pop-up lights had them. ---
**Author:** ![Muffin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/muffin/32/4341_2.png) [@Muffin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Muffin)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2011, 11:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-cars-need-front-grilles-anymore/605614/22 "2011-12-10T11:20:10Z")
> [@obbn](#): > > That is interesting. I have owned several '80’s era Mazda RX7s and never had a pop up light failure. The one in my garage right now is a 1984 and they still work as new. Buy I have noticed the Firebird/Camaro’s with the single light stuck up. I had a 67 Toronado – it regularly had probems with the hydraulic pop-up/drop-down function. ---
**Author:** ![Rick](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/9f8e36/32.png) [@Rick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rick)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2011, 12:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-cars-need-front-grilles-anymore/605614/23 "2011-12-10T12:11:15Z")
> [@Throatwarbler\_Mangrove](#): > > I can’t think of any reason why the twin turbo option would need a larger grill, so no it’s probably cosmetic. I can. A turbocharged engine will stuff more air into the engine when the turbo is working. More air means more fuel will be burned. More fuel burned means more heat generated. That heat has to be disposed of. ---
**Author:** ![R.P.McMurphy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/7993a0/32.png) [@R.P.McMurphy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/R.P.McMurphy)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2011, 3:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-cars-need-front-grilles-anymore/605614/24 "2011-12-10T15:00:12Z")
> [@jz78817](#): > > this makes no sense whatsoever. > > They’re “copying” the design because people like the way it looks, and because the grille and associated components have been a visible part of cars’ overall look since the automobile has been in existence. Many manufacturers have settled on a design “theme” for the grille (Lincoln, Acura, Rolls-Royce, etc.) and is part of their signature style. And it’s quite possible to have said grille on the front and still manage the desired aerodynamics. That you personally find them “ugly and unnecessary” has nothing to do with the market at large. So what if people like them? But not everybody, I think oversized grills look ridiculous. That’s not the point. The point is that an oversized large grill serves no performance function. They are no more useful than the fins on a '59 Cadillac or fake air intakes on a hood. ---
**Author:** ![Throatwarbler\_Mangrove](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/8c91f0/32.png) [@Throatwarbler\_Mangrove](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Throatwarbler_Mangrove)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2011, 3:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-cars-need-front-grilles-anymore/605614/25 "2011-12-10T15:28:21Z")
Except modern car engines aren’t directly cooled by air, but by coolant and oil? So your turbo car hardly needs more grill than any regular car, which is to say it doesn’t need one at all (it may still have one). For example the Lexus LFA has its engine in the front but radiator(s) in the trunk. It’s a hi-po front engined car that hardly requires a grill at all. I admit the post was not a great response to **lieu** but I stand by its correctness in the strictest terms. ---
**Author:** ![jz78817](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jz78817/32/1028_2.png) [@jz78817](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jz78817)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2011, 3:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-cars-need-front-grilles-anymore/605614/26 "2011-12-10T15:57:09Z")
> [@Throatwarbler\_Mangrove](#): > > Except modern car engines aren’t directly cooled by air, but by coolant and oil? So your turbo car hardly needs more grill than any regular car, I think we’re blurring the discussion between “radiator” and “grille,” but one thing to keep in mind is that on this forum we obey the laws of thermodynamics, young man! If the engine produces more waste heat, then it doesn’t matter what medium is used to transfer said heat to the heat exchanger. it will still require a larger heat exchanger or increased airflow to the existing heat exchanger. > [@](#): > > which is to say it doesn’t need one at all (it may still have one). that really, really depends on a lot of factors. Underhood packaging, radiator location, radiator size, etc. Sure, a Chrysler 300 might not need a “grille” per se, but you can’t just put a solid panel in its place and call it good; you’d be looking at re-designing the entire front end of the car. > [@](#): > > For example the Lexus LFA has its engine in the front but radiator(s) in the trunk. It’s a hi-po front engined car that hardly requires a grill at all. > > I admit the post was not a great response to **lieu** but I stand by its correctness in the strictest terms. Ok, if we’re talking “in the strictest terms” then no, a conventional grille is not necessary. However in _practical_ terms, a grille can be very desirable or the best option. It’s great and all that the LF-A puts the radiators in the back, but how much more did it cost Toyota to do that? Things that are easily done on a $400,000 car don’t translate to a $14,000 one. ---
**Author:** ![Leo\_Bloom](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/leo_bloom/32/10377_2.png) [@Leo\_Bloom](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Leo_Bloom)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2011, 3:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-cars-need-front-grilles-anymore/605614/27 "2011-12-10T15:58:46Z")
I once spent an afternoon with the chief of aerodynamics engineering (or whatever his title was) at Ford. Two things I remember vividly: 1. Those car commercials showing the vapor stream sensually following the car profile in a test lab are laughably absurd and follow no known law of aerodynamics; 2. and, when I asked him whether, especially as he was an insider, the car he would buy would demonstrate the benefits of good aerodynamic design, he answered without a second thought he would buy a car the chicks like. Just mentioning. ---
**Author:** ![Rick](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/9f8e36/32.png) [@Rick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rick)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2011, 12:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-cars-need-front-grilles-anymore/605614/28 "2011-12-11T00:08:09Z")
> [@Throatwarbler\_Mangrove](#): > > Except modern car engines aren’t directly cooled by air, but by coolant and oil? So your turbo car hardly needs more grill than any regular car, which is to say it doesn’t need one at all (it may still have one). For example the Lexus LFA has its engine in the front but radiator(s) in the trunk. It’s a hi-po front engined car that hardly requires a grill at all. > > I admit the post was not a great response to **lieu** but I stand by its correctness in the strictest terms. So what do you think cools the coolant and oil? 😕 Well modern cars are cooled both indirectly and directly by air. Indirectly the engine is cooled by air flow though the radiator, and oil cooler (if equipped). Directly cooling is by air flow though the engine compartment. Anecdote: When I worked for Volvo, we had a vice president that want to take a car racing. So I prepped him a turbo 850. He heard from somewhere that by blocking the grille, the car would be able to attain a higher top speed, and the engine would still be able to be cooled due to the intakes under the front bumper. So he got a clear plastic grille cover and covered the grille. He was right. Sort of. The engine stayed at normal operating temp, but the manual transmission got so hot, the plastic in the back up light switch melted, the switch fell out, and the transmission lost all of its oil. Also some other plastic pieces under the hood got a little melty. He finished the race, but needed a new transmission, and various other plastic bits. ---
**Author:** ![Throatwarbler\_Mangrove](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/8c91f0/32.png) [@Throatwarbler\_Mangrove](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Throatwarbler_Mangrove)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2011, 3:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-cars-need-front-grilles-anymore/605614/29 "2011-12-11T03:38:36Z")
> [@Rick](#): > > So what do you think cools the coolant and oil? 😕 What do you think cools the coolant and oil in a C4 Corvette, or Porsche 944, or Acura NSX (radiator is in the front) or all the other cars that have no or very small grills? 😕 Maybe air flow from the bottom of the car, as 6 other people in this thread have already stated? ---
**Author:** ![Orionizer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/orionizer/32/4442_2.png) [@Orionizer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Orionizer)\ **Post date:** [December 12, 2011, 4:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-cars-need-front-grilles-anymore/605614/30 "2011-12-12T16:35:43Z")
I know that MINI recommends a maximum of 2 badge holders on the grille, so it must be more than just for show, right? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-cars-need-front-grilles-anymore/605614.md?page=1)