# Do certain major cities really have better food? (Chicago pizza, NY bagels, etc.) **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [September 11, 2003, 4:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-certain-major-cities-really-have-better-food-chicago-pizza-ny-bagels-etc/200911 "2003-09-11T04:15:30Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Knighted\_Vorpal\_Sword](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ac91a4/32.png) [@Knighted\_Vorpal\_Sword](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Knighted_Vorpal_Sword)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2003, 3:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-certain-major-cities-really-have-better-food-chicago-pizza-ny-bagels-etc/200911/21 "2003-09-11T15:20:19Z")
It is true for kosher food in NY. Kosher food (pizza, deli, typical fast food) is just not as good as it is in NY. Even my kids can detect the difference, and their tast buds are not fully developed yet. ---
**Author:** ![ShibbOleth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/848f3c/32.png) [@ShibbOleth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ShibbOleth)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2003, 3:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-certain-major-cities-really-have-better-food-chicago-pizza-ny-bagels-etc/200911/22 "2003-09-11T15:35:47Z")
I’ve had awesome pretzels in Baltimore, I thought that stuff came out of the Susquehanna or something. I used to wonder what the fuss was about NYC bagels until I had some there, now I know. You can get close, but not quite, at some places outside. Ditto sourdough bread outside of SF. Just can’t be done exactly the same. Maybe both bagels and sourdough are affected by the local water source. Same for grouper outside of Florida, just not the same. Has more to do with freshness, I’m sure. Beef in KC is a marvelous thing, but that can also be said for lots of parts of the midwest, so it’s really not KC specific. As for BBQ, that’s really a matter of personal taste. I love all things BBQ, and have had great BBQ in all parts of the south. It’s just a touch different everywhere you go. I think that Carolina was my personal favorite. And so it goes. ---
**Author:** ![Headcoat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/6bbea6/32.png) [@Headcoat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Headcoat)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2003, 3:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-certain-major-cities-really-have-better-food-chicago-pizza-ny-bagels-etc/200911/23 "2003-09-11T15:38:59Z")
As good as Chicago style pizza is, I think most people are more familiar with the claimed superiority of New York style pizza (I prefer Chicago style myself). And I’ve often heard that the key ingredient in authentic New York style pizza is the water - New York tap water, that is. I’ve read about a guy who owns some Pizzerias in Florida that trucks down New York’s water on a regular basis so his food has the right flava. ---
**Author:** ![Sarcastro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e495f1/32.png) [@Sarcastro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sarcastro)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2003, 3:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-certain-major-cities-really-have-better-food-chicago-pizza-ny-bagels-etc/200911/24 "2003-09-11T15:42:54Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Bongmaster \* > \*\*One thing that I can assure you of, you can NOT get a proper philadelphia style cheesesteak outside of the greater Philadelphia area, and believe me I tried. At one point I got desperate while living in Ohio (have they ever actually _seen_ a cheesesteak there!?) and tried to make my own…it was close but no contendor for the prize. Part of the reason is the bread…the bakery that distributes the right bread dosen’t sell outside the area. I highly doubt that Chicago has better pizza than Philadelphia too. There are places here you have to call in the morning and reserve your dough if you want to eat there, thats how popular it is. And we have the best pretzles too. \*\* I cannot agree with you more on the cheesesteak issue. I have never had a very good one outside of Philadelphia. Probably the strongest remaining “regional” food in the U.S., since there’s not really a good chain selling them nationwide. However, you could not possibly be more wrong on the pizza issue. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![sj2](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/65b543/32.png) [@sj2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sj2)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2003, 3:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-certain-major-cities-really-have-better-food-chicago-pizza-ny-bagels-etc/200911/25 "2003-09-11T15:46:15Z")
Yes, the rumor is true. I’m a NYCer who is married to a Chi-town boy. We argue over which pizza is superior…sure, but we can both admit that either is better than Seattle pizza (ducking now…I know there are some great places, just not in the suburbs). The bagels are different in NYC. The pastrami is different. The culture is different. And that’s what it’s about, the culture, The history, the experience and the tastes you’ve grown up with. There are things that you just can’t get anywhere else. I actually started a thread inspired by NY mini-chili dogs…a lot of folks chimed in with their own cities “best of”. I love it! ---
**Author:** ![ruadh](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/d2c977/32.png) [@ruadh](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ruadh)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2003, 3:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-certain-major-cities-really-have-better-food-chicago-pizza-ny-bagels-etc/200911/26 "2003-09-11T15:46:27Z")
The worst thing about getting bagels outside of NY is that in most other places people always try to toast them. And toasted bagels are WRONG, WRONG, WRONG. ---
**Author:** ![Lazlo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lazlo/32/9678_2.png) [@Lazlo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lazlo)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2003, 4:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-certain-major-cities-really-have-better-food-chicago-pizza-ny-bagels-etc/200911/27 "2003-09-11T16:00:03Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by elmwood \* > **Likewise, I’ve had great barbecue in _New Mexico…_** Please, I beg of you, _ **where??** _ Lazlo, who hasn’t had decent barbeque since he was in Dallas five years ago… ---
**Author:** ![corndog\_man](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ea666f/32.png) [@corndog\_man](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/corndog_man)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2003, 4:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-certain-major-cities-really-have-better-food-chicago-pizza-ny-bagels-etc/200911/28 "2003-09-11T16:05:42Z")
Beer-Munich Pizza-Chicago Kimshe-Seoul BBQ-Memphis, Tennessee Chicken Wings-Buffalo Mexican Food-San Antonio Italian Food-Rome Rice-China ---
**Author:** ![Evil\_Captor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/f17d59/32.png) [@Evil\_Captor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Evil_Captor)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2003, 4:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-certain-major-cities-really-have-better-food-chicago-pizza-ny-bagels-etc/200911/29 "2003-09-11T16:12:03Z")
For anybody who doesn’t believe in regional and local cuisine, I have just two words for you: Calvin. Trillin. OK, that’s one name. But two words. ---
**Author:** ![NurseCarmen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/5daacb/32.png) [@NurseCarmen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NurseCarmen)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2003, 4:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-certain-major-cities-really-have-better-food-chicago-pizza-ny-bagels-etc/200911/30 "2003-09-11T16:23:46Z")
I think the evolution of the foods is similar to the grocery store price wars you can find in any town. Mario is making Pizza, and he notices Luigi is selling more than him. Mario does some investigating, and figures out that Luigi is using more pepporoni. Luigi decides to use more. FFWD to the moment Mario discovers Luigi is selling more pizzas…etc. etc. etc. Pepe, in the meantime, suddenly notices that all his customers are driving ten miles to get to Mario and Luigi’s neighborhood. This works so well in big cities because the competition is that much tougher. In small to medium sized cities, there just isn’t enough business to begin the competition tempest that goes on in the large cities. Pizzaria Uno and Due _used_ to rock but IMHO, they’ve sold out a bit. The Uno chain just isn’t the same, Uno in Minnesota doesn’t even touch the original. If you want good Chicago Pizza, avoid the chains, and find a Mom and Pop shop. (I second the vote for Lou Malnati’s though, there’s a few, but I don’t consider it a chain yet.) ---
**Author:** ![Dr\_Paprika](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dr_paprika/32/3042_2.png) [@Dr\_Paprika](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dr_Paprika)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2003, 4:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-certain-major-cities-really-have-better-food-chicago-pizza-ny-bagels-etc/200911/31 "2003-09-11T16:26:34Z")
I don’t think it’s a matter of believing in local cuisine. I’d expect to be able to get better kim chi in Seoul than San Antonio. I’d expect people in San Antonio to eat and have easily access to Mexican food than people from Rejkjavik. The taste of food has been shown to be highly situational. One interesting study showed diners raved about chicken a la king served in a fancy restaurant, but those who consumed it in a hospital cafeteria found the same dish mediocre. At any rate, almost 50% of Torontonians are first or second generation, English not the first language, immigrants. Why shouldn’t they make ethnic food almost as good as the home country? In fact they do. A good recipe and fresh ingredients make a good meal whether served in Peoria or Pittsburgh. ---
**Author:** ![NurseCarmen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/5daacb/32.png) [@NurseCarmen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NurseCarmen)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2003, 4:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-certain-major-cities-really-have-better-food-chicago-pizza-ny-bagels-etc/200911/32 "2003-09-11T16:39:19Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by corndog man \* > \*\*Beer-Munich > > Pizza-Chicago > > Kimshe-Seoul > > BBQ-Memphis, Tennessee > > Chicken Wings-Buffalo > > Mexican Food-San Antonio > > Italian Food-Rome > > Rice-China \*\* Corndogs - Minnesota State Fair Mexican Food, San Antonio? Is that because in Mexico they just call it “food”? ---
**Author:** ![shelbo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/3d9bf3/32.png) [@shelbo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/shelbo)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2003, 4:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-certain-major-cities-really-have-better-food-chicago-pizza-ny-bagels-etc/200911/33 "2003-09-11T16:56:33Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by ralph124c \* > \*\*…cannot be made anywhere else. I don’t know waht it is…maybee tje unique combination of fog,humisdity,etc., but you cannot get good sourdough bread like the stuff in San Francisco. > \*\* Three things. First, San Francisco sourdough is mostly made in Oakland. ([San Francisco French Bread Company, of Oakland, CA](http://www.sourdoughbread.com/history.html)) Second, its the bacteria! (Which is in the air, and a product of the unique combination of fog, humidity, etc., I guess.) [What is San Francisco sourdough?](http://www.faqs.org/faqs/food/sourdough/faq/section-31.html) And third, as to the OP, what everyone else said! ---
**Author:** ![frixxxx](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/eb9ed0/32.png) [@frixxxx](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/frixxxx)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2003, 5:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-certain-major-cities-really-have-better-food-chicago-pizza-ny-bagels-etc/200911/34 "2003-09-11T17:10:38Z")
> [@](#): > > _Originally posted by ShibbOleth \* > \*\* > Ditto sourdough bread outside of SF. Just can’t be done exactly the same. Maybe both bagels and sourdough are affected by the local water source._\* The secret to the sourdough is the water…or that’s what they profess. I’m from Cincinnati originally and was raised on Skyline/Gold star chili. Now, before I profess an undying love for this stuff. I’ve never had it anywhere else as good as the restaraunt right down the street where I grew up. I’ve had it in Tampa Bay Florida, didn’t taste as good, but I was loving every minute of it since it had been a few years. I’ve even purchased it on the web, but the aura of the place, and the prep of the other ingredients (hotdogs, spaghetti, cheese) just can’t be duplicated on my stove. Mostly nostalgia here. But I’ll tell you what - I love Chicago-style, NY-style, any-style pizza…but I like to be able to get a variety…to me there is not “one” pizza out there! frixxxx ---
**Author:** ![Dr\_Paprika](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dr_paprika/32/3042_2.png) [@Dr\_Paprika](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dr_Paprika)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2003, 5:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-certain-major-cities-really-have-better-food-chicago-pizza-ny-bagels-etc/200911/35 "2003-09-11T17:14:29Z")
I don’t think it’s a matter of believing in local cuisine. I’d expect to be able to get better kim chi in Seoul than San Antonio. I’d expect people in San Antonio to eat and have easily access to Mexican food than people from Rejkjavik. The taste of food has been shown to be highly situational. One interesting study showed diners raved about chicken a la king served in a fancy restaurant, but those who consumed it in a hospital cafeteria found the same dish mediocre. At any rate, almost 50% of Torontonians are first or second generation, English not the first language, immigrants. Why shouldn’t they make ethnic food almost as good as the home country? In fact they do. A good recipe and fresh ingredients make a good meal whether served in Peoria or Pittsburgh. It doesn’t take much to make a world-weary poseur brag. As if Kentucky Fried Chicken in Lexington is far better than that in Savannah. ---
**Author:** ![alimarx](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e274bd/32.png) [@alimarx](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/alimarx)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2003, 5:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-certain-major-cities-really-have-better-food-chicago-pizza-ny-bagels-etc/200911/36 "2003-09-11T17:16:15Z")
You will not find any good ice cream outside of New England. ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2003, 5:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-certain-major-cities-really-have-better-food-chicago-pizza-ny-bagels-etc/200911/37 "2003-09-11T17:18:12Z")
Let me ditto on the Cincinnati chili (I’m from Dayton). It’s great stuff. There are a couple of places out here that sell something called “Cincinnati chili,” and it’s good chili, but it doesn’t taste like Skyline or Gold Star. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2003, 5:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-certain-major-cities-really-have-better-food-chicago-pizza-ny-bagels-etc/200911/38 "2003-09-11T17:20:07Z")
> [@](#): > > One thing that I can assure you of, you can NOT get a proper philadelphia style cheesesteak outside of the greater Philadelphia area, and believe me I tried. Ironically, the one place in Bozeman that makes a good Philadelphia cheesteak is also the one place that doesn’t even claim that their cheesesteak is Philadelphia-style. It’s still not as good as Pat’s, but it’s about on the same level as most of the local neighborhood dives I tried while going to school in Philadelphia. But that’s one of only two places in the country where I was able to find a good cheesesteak, outside of SE Pennsylvania. The other was a cafeteria at Case Western Reserve University (in Ohio, so they have seen one), where I can only assume that a student from Philadelphia was working the grill. And I don’t think it’s really fair to compare NYC-style and Chi-style pizza. They’re totally different foodstuffs. One might as well ask whether Chicago pizza or Philadelphia cheesesteaks are better. ---
**Author:** ![Tezmac](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/94ad74/32.png) [@Tezmac](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tezmac)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2003, 5:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-certain-major-cities-really-have-better-food-chicago-pizza-ny-bagels-etc/200911/39 "2003-09-11T17:30:33Z")
If you’ve never been trapped in New Mexico, specifically Albuquerque, green chile is perhaps the most addicting food on the planet. Im not talking jalapanos, bell peppers, texas chili etc. During his stint at UNM Luc Longley became addicted to the stuff and now grows it down under. ---
**Author:** ![ShibbOleth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/848f3c/32.png) [@ShibbOleth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ShibbOleth)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2003, 5:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-certain-major-cities-really-have-better-food-chicago-pizza-ny-bagels-etc/200911/40 "2003-09-11T17:39:18Z")
Man, I can’t believe that Skyline and Goldstar got dragged into this. Everybody knows that Empress and Mount Washington are better chili parlors. - Shibb, tongue embedded firmly in cheek. PS: I’ve yet to visit Blue Ash Chili about a mile from my house. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-certain-major-cities-really-have-better-food-chicago-pizza-ny-bagels-etc/200911.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-certain-major-cities-really-have-better-food-chicago-pizza-ny-bagels-etc/200911.md?page=3)