# Do certain major cities really have better food? (Chicago pizza, NY bagels, etc.) **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [September 11, 2003, 4:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-certain-major-cities-really-have-better-food-chicago-pizza-ny-bagels-etc/200911 "2003-09-11T04:15:30Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![ltfire](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/7ea924/32.png) [@ltfire](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ltfire)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2003, 12:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-certain-major-cities-really-have-better-food-chicago-pizza-ny-bagels-etc/200911/41 "2003-09-12T00:58:13Z")
I’m having a medical procedure done tomorrow at 8 A.M. Today, I have had 2 bowls of dish water tasting clear broth, and 3 bowls of lemon jello. I can have nothing after midnight. I am so frigging hungry, you would not believe. I HATE EVERYONE WHO PASTED TO THIS THREAD! ---
**Author:** ![Horatio\_Hellpop](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/e5b9ba/32.png) [@Horatio\_Hellpop](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Horatio_Hellpop)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2003, 1:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-certain-major-cities-really-have-better-food-chicago-pizza-ny-bagels-etc/200911/42 "2003-09-12T01:37:08Z")
New Yorkers swear New York pizza is best, Chicagoans swear Chicago pizza is best. People who’ve tried pizza from Old Forge, PA swear by it, even if they’re not from Old Forge. I’m from the DC area, and we don’t lay claim to anything as the “best.” I think it really is because Potomac River water is so rank. Nearby Baltimore is the Nazz for crabcakes and scrapple, though. ---
**Author:** ![Cheesesteak](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cheesesteak/32/3694_2.png) [@Cheesesteak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cheesesteak)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2003, 1:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-certain-major-cities-really-have-better-food-chicago-pizza-ny-bagels-etc/200911/43 "2003-09-12T01:59:09Z")
ltfire, why are you going to Yankee stadium to get lemon jello? Everyone knows it’s WAY better at Shea! ---
**Author:** ![Una\_Persson](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/una_persson/32/346_2.png) [@Una\_Persson](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Una_Persson)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2003, 3:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-certain-major-cities-really-have-better-food-chicago-pizza-ny-bagels-etc/200911/44 "2003-09-12T03:14:15Z")
I travel a lot. I’ve been to maybe 35 States and 10 countries, multiple times. And one thing I love to do is “eat” the local colour. And my anecdotal, sample size of 1 experience is, the local “our version of food X is the best” is just boasting. I’ve had fantastic food in certain places, but never where it lines up with the food the place has a “reputation” for. For example, the best pizza in the World is in Chattanooga, not Chicago (IMO). The best clam chowder in Kansas City, not Boston (IMO). The best hamburgers are in Arizona, not Kansas City. (IMO) The best Tex-Mex in Salt Lake City, not Texas (IMO). The best fish and chips in Illinois, not England. (IMO) And the best Italian food in Kansas City as well, not Italy. (IMO) ---
**Author:** ![Troy\_McClure\_SF](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/troy_mcclure_sf/32/4150_2.png) [@Troy\_McClure\_SF](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Troy_McClure_SF)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2003, 3:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-certain-major-cities-really-have-better-food-chicago-pizza-ny-bagels-etc/200911/45 "2003-09-12T03:22:22Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by shelbo \* > **[San Francisco French Bread Company, of Oakland, CA](http://www.sourdoughbread.com/history.html)** Feh. [Boudin](http://www.boudinbakery.com/jump.jsp?ruleID=24&itemID=3&itemType=Article). I do enjoy Alfaro’s (Watsonville) and Beckmann’s (Seabright, Santa Cruz). ---
**Author:** ![ruadh](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/d2c977/32.png) [@ruadh](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ruadh)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2003, 5:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-certain-major-cities-really-have-better-food-chicago-pizza-ny-bagels-etc/200911/46 "2003-09-12T05:06:37Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Krokodil \* > **I’m from the DC area, and we don’t lay claim to anything as the "best."** Best Ethiopian food in America. ---
**Author:** ![Cervaise](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cervaise/32/16693_2.png) [@Cervaise](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cervaise)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2003, 5:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-certain-major-cities-really-have-better-food-chicago-pizza-ny-bagels-etc/200911/47 "2003-09-12T05:15:53Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by sj2 \* > **I’m a NYCer who is married to a Chi-town boy. We argue over which pizza is superior…sure, but we can both admit that either is better than Seattle pizza (ducking now…I know there are some great places, just not in the suburbs).** Don’t duck; you’re right. It’s really hard to get excellent pizza here in Seattle. We got extremely lucky a couple of years ago when a transplanted New Yorker opened up a joint three blocks from our house! Now _that’s_ good pizza. On the other hand, Seattle is justly famous for consistently great seafood. The only places I’ve been that can compete are San Francisco and Vancouver BC. (Not counting lobster.) We’re totally spoiled with salmon, Dungeness crab, and everything else brought in by our fishing industry. Go to any restaurant, or, hell, any neighborhood picnic, and you can get grilled salmon better than anything you’ll find in Chicago. Oh, and our oysters are great, too. Ooo, and mussels. Especially Penn Cove mussels. Penn Cove is like an hour away from here. Fresh mussels in a spicy curry broth: oh my LORD they’re tasty. 🙂 But on the other hand, my wife and I were in Chicago a few weeks ago for our anniversary, and we had dinner in Greek Town with a bunch of Dopers (hello, everybody!). I was _amazed_ at how much better the Greek food was there than anything we can get here in Seattle. Basically, we didn’t bother ordering dinner; we just got plate after plate of appetizers. Dee-_lish._ 😃 ---
**Author:** ![even\_sven](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/dfb087/32.png) [@even\_sven](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/even_sven)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2003, 6:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-certain-major-cities-really-have-better-food-chicago-pizza-ny-bagels-etc/200911/48 "2003-09-12T06:10:43Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Troy McClure SF \* > \*\*I do enjoy Alfaro’s (Watsonville) and Beckmann’s (Seabright, Santa Cruz). \*\* Hey, I can see Beckman’s bakery outside my front window! But Alfaro’s is better. Mmmm sundried tomato sourdough. ---
**Author:** ![Horatio\_Hellpop](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/e5b9ba/32.png) [@Horatio\_Hellpop](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Horatio_Hellpop)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2003, 7:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-certain-major-cities-really-have-better-food-chicago-pizza-ny-bagels-etc/200911/49 "2003-09-12T07:19:27Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by ruadh \* > \*\*Best Ethiopian food in America. \*\* I don’t think of that as a DC thing so much as an Adams-Morgan thing (A-M being DC’s hipster district); there are five Ethiopian restaurants within about three blocks. My sister-in-law, visiting from Seattle, jokingly asked if we had an Eritrean restaurant. We do. ---
**Author:** ![BwanaBob](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bwanabob/32/2985_2.png) [@BwanaBob](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BwanaBob)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2003, 12:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-certain-major-cities-really-have-better-food-chicago-pizza-ny-bagels-etc/200911/50 "2003-09-12T12:49:34Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by ShibbOleth \* > \*\* Maybe both bagels and sourdough are affected by the local water source. > > \*\* Absolutley right. My brother had a client in Miami who ran a highly successful bagelry. His secret was that he had tankards of NYC water shipped down to Florida. All the transplanted New Yorkers could tell. ---
**Author:** ![An\_Arky](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/87869e/32.png) [@An\_Arky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/An_Arky)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2003, 1:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-certain-major-cities-really-have-better-food-chicago-pizza-ny-bagels-etc/200911/51 "2003-09-12T13:16:10Z")
Regarding cheesesteaks, I concur that Pat’s is the standard and I’ve not seen a true cheesesteak outside of Philly. Why? Beats me. Someone said it’s because of the bread. Agreed, the bread is excellent, but the one thing that distinguishes Pat’s (and maybe the other Philly vendors) from all others: Cheese Whiz! A big vat of Cheese Whiz is the secret ingredient. Nobody outside of philly has the nerve to use Cheese Whiz, with that piquant processed cheese food flavor. No, they have to use mamby-pamby mozzerella or provolone…and they put mayo, lettuce and tomato on them…good God, please strike them all down immediately! Disclaimer: I’ve only had Pat’s. If any Geno’s or Jim’s(?) fans want to pipe in , that’s cool, too. Also, nobody does catfish well outside the south. The breading is WAY too thick. You shouldn’t use flour at all you stupid-ass Yankees! Oh, and don’t get me started on the “mexican” food around here! ---
**Author:** ![dropzone](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dropzone/32/7515_2.png) [@dropzone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dropzone)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2003, 1:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-certain-major-cities-really-have-better-food-chicago-pizza-ny-bagels-etc/200911/52 "2003-09-12T13:21:02Z")
Of course, once a bagel reaches room temperature you might as well be eating one made by Lenders. I do not like what is currently called Chicago-style pizza, which is completely different from Chicago-style pizza of thirty years ago. Placing the cheese directly on the dough before baking means the cheese gets incorporated into the crust, producing a disgusting, tasteless goo. The older style was a thinner crust and lots (LOTS!) of cheese on top. ---
**Author:** ![Balthisar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/balthisar/32/2825_2.png) [@Balthisar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Balthisar)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2003, 1:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-certain-major-cities-really-have-better-food-chicago-pizza-ny-bagels-etc/200911/53 "2003-09-12T13:24:26Z")
I wonder if there’s a market for frozen, concentrated, New York City water? Or dehydrated New York City water? You know, just add water. It’d have to be absolutely pure as you can get it, but it might work. Well, unless things like chlorine and flourine and oxygen and whatnot don’t become part of the dry mix. ---
**Author:** ![frixxxx](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/eb9ed0/32.png) [@frixxxx](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/frixxxx)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2003, 2:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-certain-major-cities-really-have-better-food-chicago-pizza-ny-bagels-etc/200911/54 "2003-09-12T14:19:39Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by An Arky \* > **… Also, nobody does catfish well outside the south. The breading is WAY too thick. You shouldn’t use flour at all you stupid-ass Yankees!** Flour, FLOUR!!! Who came up with that one?..My grandma is rolling in her grave FLOUR…OMG Flour? ---
**Author:** ![An\_Arky](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/87869e/32.png) [@An\_Arky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/An_Arky)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2003, 2:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-certain-major-cities-really-have-better-food-chicago-pizza-ny-bagels-etc/200911/55 "2003-09-12T14:42:33Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by frixxxx \* > \*\*Flour, FLOUR!!! Who came up with that one?..My grandma is rolling in her grave FLOUR…OMG > > Flour? \*\* Yeah. They put that and sugar in their cornbread, too. Hell, I’m rolling in MY grave, and I ain’t dead yet… ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2003, 3:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-certain-major-cities-really-have-better-food-chicago-pizza-ny-bagels-etc/200911/56 "2003-09-12T15:01:58Z")
> [@](#): > > ## Best Ethiopian food in America. > > I don’t think of that as a DC thing so much as an Adams-Morgan thing (A-M being DC’s hipster district); there are five Ethiopian restaurants within about three blocks. My sister-in-law, visiting from Seattle, jokingly asked if we had an Eritrean restaurant. We do. So far as I’m concerned it is not just an Adams-Morgan thing. There are good Ethiopian places all over the place, including Georgetown and Arlington. And many of them much less expensive than the Adams-Morgan places. The Washington area (especially Arlington) also has damn good Vietnamese and Pho places. ---
**Author:** ![An\_Arky](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/87869e/32.png) [@An\_Arky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/An_Arky)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2003, 3:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-certain-major-cities-really-have-better-food-chicago-pizza-ny-bagels-etc/200911/57 "2003-09-12T15:22:39Z")
I would venture that this “X city is known for Y” is fading a bit due to the fact that no matter where you are (except for out in the hinterlands), there are excellent and cheap ethnic restaurants that are better than most 'Merkin restaurants. ---
**Author:** ![Troy\_McClure\_SF](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/troy_mcclure_sf/32/4150_2.png) [@Troy\_McClure\_SF](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Troy_McClure_SF)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2003, 4:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-certain-major-cities-really-have-better-food-chicago-pizza-ny-bagels-etc/200911/58 "2003-09-12T16:27:21Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by even sven \* > \*\*Hey, I can see Beckman’s bakery outside my front window! > > But Alfaro’s is better. Mmmm sundried tomato sourdough. \*\* [hijack] During the 2001-2 year, my friends lived on Bronson St, right near Beckmann’s and Costa Brava and the creepy corner store. It became a great tradition to get, er, intoxicated, and go down to the Beckmann’s docks and help ourselves to the extras they had thrown out. Apparently, we weren’t the only ones, since the barrels had “Do not take this bread” signs on them. They’re still good at 1 AM. 😃 [/hijack] ---
**Author:** ![Avumede](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/avumede/32/7235_2.png) [@Avumede](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Avumede)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2003, 4:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-certain-major-cities-really-have-better-food-chicago-pizza-ny-bagels-etc/200911/59 "2003-09-12T16:49:11Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by An Arky \* > I would venture that this “X city is known for Y” is fading a bit due to the fact that no matter where you are (except for out in the hinterlands), there are excellent and cheap ethnic restaurants that are better than most 'Merkin restaurants. There are ethnic restuarants, and there are ethnic restuarants. For example, Indian food in St. Louis is a pale imitation of Indian food in Silicon Valley. It’s not just a matter of quality either, the whole selection of what you can get is different. Last I checked, in the vast majority of the country, you can’t find a dosa or udupi to save your life, let alone Desi Chinese food. Similar things can be said about Chinese food beyond the range of “Mongolian Beef”. IN that vein, I’d say that L.A.'s asian food is better than anywhere else in the U.S., Washington D.C. has better Ethiopian food, San Francisco has the best Pakistani food, etc. ---
**Author:** ![bibliophage](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bibliophage/32/7615_2.png) [@bibliophage](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bibliophage)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2003, 5:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-certain-major-cities-really-have-better-food-chicago-pizza-ny-bagels-etc/200911/60 "2003-09-12T17:07:54Z")
This is more a matter of opinion than fact, so I’ll move this thread to IMHO. bibliophage moderator GQ [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-certain-major-cities-really-have-better-food-chicago-pizza-ny-bagels-etc/200911.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-certain-major-cities-really-have-better-food-chicago-pizza-ny-bagels-etc/200911.md?page=4)