# Do Christians who believe in a non-literal Bible; do they believe in Jesus' resurrection? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [June 1, 2013, 5:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-christians-who-believe-in-a-non-literal-bible-do-they-believe-in-jesus-resurrection/659844 "2013-06-01T05:45:20Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![RTFirefly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c77e96/32.png) [@RTFirefly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTFirefly)\ **Post date:** [June 1, 2013, 5:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-christians-who-believe-in-a-non-literal-bible-do-they-believe-in-jesus-resurrection/659844/21 "2013-06-01T17:24:27Z")
> [@Aspidistra](#): > > Uh, yeah, that was what I meant to quote. No idea what I did to make that screw up. Anyway, my point is everybody knows that and other parables are teaching stories because they’re “framed” in the context of Jesus teaching. Well, \*almost \*everyone. I have run into fundies who say that even the events described in the parables were all true stories. > [@](#): > > But a lot of people would also say Job is a teaching story, by various cues in the text. And Jonah. > [@bienville](#): > > I’ve definitely known people who identify as Christian because they find value in the teachings of Jesus as related by the Gospels plus, to a varying degree, some of the writings of Paul (Paul’s been losing favor with the hip set, it seems). Yeah, Paul says a bunch of things that one wishes he hadn’t, especially about women and marriage. But it would be a mistake to dismiss him out of hand (other than as part of a dismissal of Christianity out of hand, which is a whole 'nother thing); he’s pretty amazing when he’s not being a bit too much of a [del]dick[/del] creature of his times. ---
**Author:** ![BigT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bigt/32/12044_2.png) [@BigT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigT)\ **Post date:** [June 1, 2013, 5:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-christians-who-believe-in-a-non-literal-bible-do-they-believe-in-jesus-resurrection/659844/22 "2013-06-01T17:48:24Z")
Depends. Most I know do, but I do have one Christian friend who says that Jesus was just an awesome guy. She calls herself a liberal Christian because she follows his teachings. I asked because it said “liberal Christian” on her Facebook profile. I was hoping it just mean a Christian who was not part of the Religious Right (which is what I am). ---
**Author:** ![Senegoid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/senegoid/32/6606_2.png) [@Senegoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Senegoid)\ **Post date:** [June 1, 2013, 6:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-christians-who-believe-in-a-non-literal-bible-do-they-believe-in-jesus-resurrection/659844/23 "2013-06-01T18:33:32Z")
> [@Nzinga\_Seated](#): > > Thanks for the replies, guys. It seems to me that if someone identifies as Christian, there really aren’t any assumptions I can make at all. It’s just too varied to assume anything. > > I think I had started, in my mind, jumping to the idea that if a Christian said they didn’t believe in talking snakes or whatever, that meant that they rejected the idea of all biblical miracles. So, I had separated Christians as those who believed in the burning bush, split red sea, virgin birth, walking on water, etc…and those who didn’t believe in any of those things, but instead interpreted those things as parables or teaching moments or whatever. There can be people _other_ than Christians who believe, literally, in the Old Testament, miracles and all, while not believing in the Resurrection. There are fundamentalist Orthodox Jews who believe in the O. T. literally – 6-day creation, snake, Flood, entire Moses and Exodus story, etc. But they don’t buy the New Testament stuff. ETA: And, BTW, they wouldn’t necessarily believe literally in the 8-day Hanukkah miracle either, since that isn’t from the O. T. ---
**Author:** ![Nzinga\_Seated](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/b5ac83/32.png) [@Nzinga\_Seated](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nzinga_Seated)\ **Post date:** [June 1, 2013, 6:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-christians-who-believe-in-a-non-literal-bible-do-they-believe-in-jesus-resurrection/659844/24 "2013-06-01T18:44:36Z")
> [@Senegoid](#): > > There can be people _other_ than Christians who believe, literally, in the Old Testament, miracles and all, while not believing in the Resurrection… Yeah, I know. That’s why I specified Christians and not Jews. ---
**Author:** ![monstro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ba9def/32.png) [@monstro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/monstro)\ **Post date:** [June 1, 2013, 6:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-christians-who-believe-in-a-non-literal-bible-do-they-believe-in-jesus-resurrection/659844/25 "2013-06-01T18:55:49Z")
Progressive Quakers can believe just about anything they want. But there is an expectation that everyone believe that there was something special about Jesus. This doesn’t necessarily mean you believe he performed miracles and rose from the dead. But you do have think to believe Jesus was more than just an awesome guy. You can be agnostic and still be a Quaker, though. ---
**Author:** ![Kimmy\_Gibbler](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/bbe5ce/32.png) [@Kimmy\_Gibbler](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimmy_Gibbler)\ **Post date:** [June 1, 2013, 8:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-christians-who-believe-in-a-non-literal-bible-do-they-believe-in-jesus-resurrection/659844/26 "2013-06-01T20:38:39Z")
> [@MeanOldLady](#): > > Hmm? Like what? I imagine he has something in mind like this: [Progressing Spirit : The Resurrection](http://johnshelbyspong.com/sample-essays/the-resurrection/) I suppose that I am probably a little more congenial to Bp. Spong’s POV than **FriarTed** (but I don’t know that for certain, I don’t know what **FT** ’s take on him actually is). ---
**Author:** ![Suburban\_Plankton](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/suburban_plankton/32/219_2.png) [@Suburban\_Plankton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Suburban_Plankton)\ **Post date:** [June 1, 2013, 8:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-christians-who-believe-in-a-non-literal-bible-do-they-believe-in-jesus-resurrection/659844/27 "2013-06-01T20:43:00Z")
> [@Nzinga\_Seated](#): > > Thanks for the replies, guys. It seems to me that if someone identifies as Christian, there really aren’t any assumptions I can make at all. It’s just too varied to assume anything.. I think that believing in Jesus’ resurrection is \*\*\*the one \*\*\*defining characteristic of Christians. Beyond that, your mileage may vary. ---
**Author:** ![ralph124c](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/8797f3/32.png) [@ralph124c](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ralph124c)\ **Post date:** [June 1, 2013, 8:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-christians-who-believe-in-a-non-literal-bible-do-they-believe-in-jesus-resurrection/659844/28 "2013-06-01T20:52:49Z")
St. Paul on Christ’s resurrection: “if Christ be not risen, our faith is foolish” That sums it up, for me.🙂 ---
**Author:** ![belleindigo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/85e7bf/32.png) [@belleindigo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/belleindigo)\ **Post date:** [June 1, 2013, 9:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-christians-who-believe-in-a-non-literal-bible-do-they-believe-in-jesus-resurrection/659844/29 "2013-06-01T21:10:19Z")
At the risk of making myself sound crazy, some people have been drawn towards the idea that the Bible is entirely symbolic, but ALSO that most of it has been altered (such as the inclusion of demons, Hell, etc) by priests and leaders to better control the people they ruled over. As for the existence of Jesus Christ, I’d even heard it said that he was TWO people. One person who was born of a virgin, but died in Japan. And another who came only as an adult to teach and be crucified, but was resurrected. This was all apparently planned and executed by an advanced civilization that wanted to help these people improve spiritually. ---
**Author:** ![Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/f04885/32.png) [@Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Qin_Shi_Huangdi)\ **Post date:** [June 1, 2013, 9:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-christians-who-believe-in-a-non-literal-bible-do-they-believe-in-jesus-resurrection/659844/30 "2013-06-01T21:27:40Z")
> [@Nzinga\_Seated](#): > > I know a lot of Christians don’t take the Bible literally, or don’t follow a lot of the traditional ideas about the bible. Depends on what you mean by taking the Bible literally. There is a difference between not taking literally the parts of the Bible that weren’t meant to be taken literally and not taking literally those which clearly are meant to be historical, factual accounts. > [@](#): > > For instance, many Christians don’t believe in hell, regardless of the pope’s stand on that. Considering only about half the world’s nominal Christians are Roman Catholic, the stance of the Pope should have little bearing. Also depends on what you mean by there being no Hell. > [@](#): > > And many Christians don’t believe that the earth was literally made in six days. Many of these modern Christians are likely to agree with scientists about how the universe came to be what it is today, but they just believe that God guided it, or something…I’ve heard a lot of variants but always the same idea…that they don’t take the Bible literally… no talking snakes or salted women. Again depends on the definition of literalism. > [@](#): > > Do these same Christians also not believe that Jesus died and came back three days later? Can one not believe that and still be considered a Christian? Some may call themselves “Christian” but those who do not believe in the Resurrection are in no reasonable sense of the word, “Christian”. The Resurrection is a fundamental part of Christ’s work of atonement and salvation. If one does not believe that , one is at best a Christian-inspired theistic rationalist. ---
**Author:** ![Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/f04885/32.png) [@Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Qin_Shi_Huangdi)\ **Post date:** [June 1, 2013, 9:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-christians-who-believe-in-a-non-literal-bible-do-they-believe-in-jesus-resurrection/659844/31 "2013-06-01T21:28:42Z")
> [@belleindigo](#): > > At the risk of making myself sound crazy, some people have been drawn towards the idea that the Bible is entirely symbolic, but ALSO that most of it has been altered (such as the inclusion of demons, Hell, etc) by priests and leaders to better control the people they ruled over. As for the existence of Jesus Christ, I’d even heard it said that he was TWO people. One person who was born of a virgin, but died in Japan. And another who came only as an adult to teach and be crucified, but was resurrected. This was all apparently planned and executed by an advanced civilization that wanted to help these people improve spiritually. Sounds like a bunch of New Ager/UFO cultist bullshit to me. ---
**Author:** ![Nava](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/da6949/32.png) [@Nava](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nava)\ **Post date:** [June 1, 2013, 9:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-christians-who-believe-in-a-non-literal-bible-do-they-believe-in-jesus-resurrection/659844/32 "2013-06-01T21:48:05Z")
Catholics officially do, the idea being (and I think it’s in one of the Letters but it’s almost midnight and I can’t remember which one) that resurrection is what gives sense to everything that went on before, that without resurrection the rest is basically Yet Another Prophet. Individual Catholics, you’d have to ask: for many it’s one of the “Pascal’s Wager dogmas” (the ones where you can’t really claim to understand it but say ‘ok, whatever, I’m just not going to give myself a headache trying to’), others are absolutely certain it happened. A lot of that New Ager/UFO stuff is by [Erich von Däniken](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Erich_von_D%C3%A4niken). Another guy, by the name of J.J. Benítez, claims that Jesus was an alien “trojan horse” (his Caballo de Troya series is on volume 9), but I don’t know if his books have been translated to English. ---
**Author:** ![Kimmy\_Gibbler](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/bbe5ce/32.png) [@Kimmy\_Gibbler](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimmy_Gibbler)\ **Post date:** [June 1, 2013, 9:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-christians-who-believe-in-a-non-literal-bible-do-they-believe-in-jesus-resurrection/659844/33 "2013-06-01T21:48:58Z")
> [@Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](#): > > **Depends on what you mean by** taking the Bible literally. There is a difference between not taking literally the parts of the Bible that weren’t meant to be taken literally and not taking literally those which clearly are meant to be historical, factual accounts. > [@](#): > > Considering only about half the world’s nominal Christians are Roman Catholic, the stance of the Pope should have little bearing. Also **depends on what you mean by** there being no Hell. > [@](#): > > Again **depends on** the definition of literalism. So of course, what you should have also been mindful to include in this: > [@](#): > > Some may call themselves “Christian” but those who do not believe in the Resurrection are in no reasonable sense of the word, “Christian”. The Resurrection is a fundamental part of Christ’s work of atonement and salvation. If one does not believe that , one is at best a Christian-inspired theistic rationalist. was that this also depends on what it means to believe, and what it is we understand the Resurrection to be (and how people might have described, in perhaps imperfect, evocative language, an otherwise miraculous, beyond-human-comprehension event). ---
**Author:** ![belleindigo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/85e7bf/32.png) [@belleindigo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/belleindigo)\ **Post date:** [June 1, 2013, 9:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-christians-who-believe-in-a-non-literal-bible-do-they-believe-in-jesus-resurrection/659844/34 "2013-06-01T21:55:17Z")
> [@Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](#): > > Sounds like a bunch of New Ager/UFO cultist bullshit to me. Yeah, but it sounds a lot better than some of the absolute filth people have tried to pass off as reality. Such as the idea that we are the only planet with the only forms of intelligent life ever to exist in the millions of years the universe has been around. ---
**Author:** ![Trinopus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/2bfe46/32.png) [@Trinopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Trinopus)\ **Post date:** [June 1, 2013, 10:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-christians-who-believe-in-a-non-literal-bible-do-they-believe-in-jesus-resurrection/659844/35 "2013-06-01T22:43:10Z")
I know a small handful of Christians who believe that the resurrection was a metaphor, to one degree or another. One guy holds that it’s all a metaphor. Another believes that the spirit of Christ rose from the dead, but not the body. Yet another is so lost in the depths of theosophist mysticism, nobody can make any sense of what he believes! There’s room for an astonishing variety of beliefs. ---
**Author:** ![delphica](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e9a140/32.png) [@delphica](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/delphica)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2013, 2:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-christians-who-believe-in-a-non-literal-bible-do-they-believe-in-jesus-resurrection/659844/36 "2013-06-02T02:41:16Z")
Raised Catholic, practicing Catholic, and I guess the most accurate way of describing my beliefs is that it _could have_ happened if God had decided to go that way. I’m not too concerned about whether or not it did actually happen, or if it did happen, how accurately it was reported in scripture as it has come to us today. I’m a big supporter of “in God, all things are possible.” To me, that’s the crux of the message. It’s _possible._ ---
**Author:** ![WhyNot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/c77e96/32.png) [@WhyNot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WhyNot)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2013, 3:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-christians-who-believe-in-a-non-literal-bible-do-they-believe-in-jesus-resurrection/659844/37 "2013-06-02T03:00:27Z")
It’s common within neopaganism\* to consider Jesus Christ “An Ascended Master” (a concept I believe we stole from the Theosophists). Other Ascended Masters include Mary, Confucius and Kwan Yin. Ascended Masters are teachers who have “gotten it,” and align their God-selves with their human selves and can, if they choose, take their bodies with them when they die. So, it’s a bit more than “just this really cool guy,” but Ascension is something that, eventually and given enough lives, we’ll all do. It’s just, y’know…hard. So I believe (as much as I believe anything, which is that it sounds good at the moment) that Jesus’ Resurrection as described in Scripture sounds a whole lot like what my people call Ascension. But I most certainly don’t believe in a literal Bible! \*which is a huge umbrella term for a bunch of New Religious Movements which are often contradictory, so this does certainly not apply to all neopagan paths or practitioners ---
**Author:** ![Nzinga\_Seated](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/b5ac83/32.png) [@Nzinga\_Seated](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nzinga_Seated)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2013, 3:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-christians-who-believe-in-a-non-literal-bible-do-they-believe-in-jesus-resurrection/659844/38 "2013-06-02T03:02:52Z")
So, WhyNot, just to be super clear…you \*do \*believe in _Ascension_. ---
**Author:** ![Koxinga](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/4af34b/32.png) [@Koxinga](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Koxinga)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2013, 3:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-christians-who-believe-in-a-non-literal-bible-do-they-believe-in-jesus-resurrection/659844/39 "2013-06-02T03:06:21Z")
> [@belleindigo](#): > > Yeah, but it sounds a lot better than some of the absolute filth people have tried to pass off as reality. Such as the idea that we are the only planet with the only forms of intelligent life ever to exist in the **millions** of years the universe has been around. Millions, huh? The ghost of Carl Sagan would like to have a word with you. ---
**Author:** ![WhyNot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/c77e96/32.png) [@WhyNot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WhyNot)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2013, 3:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-christians-who-believe-in-a-non-literal-bible-do-they-believe-in-jesus-resurrection/659844/40 "2013-06-02T03:09:25Z")
> [@Nzinga\_Seated](#): > > So, WhyNot, just to be super clear…you \*do \*believe in _Ascension_. I…think so. Sometimes, anyhow. I’m very ambivalent about my religion at the moment. (In the actual definition of ambivalent: strong feelings on both sides.) Some days I’m Agnostic, some Atheist, and a few a True Believer. Honestly, I feel like religiousity is hard wired. You either have the wiring for it or you don’t. I’m wired for it. What I can’t decide is if that wiring was entirely random, selected for by natural forces because it helped us survive and thrive as a species…or if that wiring was put in place by some Divine (of which I may be a part) fiddling with DNA to remind us that we’re more than talking sacks of meat. Sorry, I guess I can’t be super clear. I’m not at all super clear in my head right now. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-christians-who-believe-in-a-non-literal-bible-do-they-believe-in-jesus-resurrection/659844.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-christians-who-believe-in-a-non-literal-bible-do-they-believe-in-jesus-resurrection/659844.md?page=3)