# Do churches charge membership fees? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [February 6, 2009, 6:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-churches-charge-membership-fees/484679 "2009-02-06T06:57:18Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![kanicbird](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/5f8ce5/32.png) [@kanicbird](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kanicbird)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2009, 3:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-churches-charge-membership-fees/484679/21 "2009-02-06T15:32:16Z")
I’ve never been in a church that demanded a donation, but some do use pressure which IMHO is the exact opposite of how it should be in scriptures. It is God that speaks to our heart to donate and out of our heart we are to do it for Him, and it is a act of trust on our part that He will provide. This goes to the church side also, they should trust that God should provide and not use man’s efforts to encourage it. While tithing should be taught as any scriptural principal, it should not be stresses nor a way to gain more money. ---
**Author:** ![Keeve](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/f07891/32.png) [@Keeve](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Keeve)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2009, 3:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-churches-charge-membership-fees/484679/22 "2009-02-06T15:41:16Z")
> [@Shagnasty](#): > > I only found out about the Jewish system a couple of years ago and it isn’t the same for most Christian churches. No one is going to corner you about the money. It is supposed to be about free giving and the church making due with that. As a Jew who has experience only with the paid-membership system, I’m curious about the no-fee system. Are the voluntary donations adequate to cover the church’s expenses? Even if the building is complete and paid for, there are still electricity and phone bills, heating in the winter and a/c in the summer, not to mention salaries - at least for the maintenance or janitorial people, and I suppose the religous leaders have to eat too, even if they’re not technically “salaried”. (BTW: As far as I know, even though the vast majority of synagogues do have membership fees, and often other fees on top of that, they are invariably willing to give discounts or waivers to people who can’t afford it for whatever reason. Usually all it needs is a little talk with the people in charge.) ---
**Author:** ![Keeve](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/f07891/32.png) [@Keeve](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Keeve)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2009, 3:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-churches-charge-membership-fees/484679/23 "2009-02-06T15:47:07Z")
> [@kanicbird](#): > > … but some do use pressure which IMHO is the exact opposite of how it should be in scriptures. It is God that speaks to our heart to donate and out of our heart we are to do it for Him, and it is a act of trust on our part that He will provide. This goes to the church side also, they should trust that God should provide and not use man’s efforts to encourage it. While tithing should be taught as any scriptural principal, it should not be stresses nor a way to gain more money. Ideally, of course you are correct. But then again, a person has the option of praying at home for free. If one wants to do all the rituals in a big, beautiful, comfortable building, it may be difficult to find someone who can build it (and keep it running) for free. ---
**Author:** ![even\_sven](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/dfb087/32.png) [@even\_sven](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/even_sven)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2009, 4:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-churches-charge-membership-fees/484679/24 "2009-02-06T16:02:45Z")
Hindu temples (in India at least) often have a menu-like list of services available and their prices. These can be pretty fun to read, since they go from “blessing your car” to “wedding.” I always thought it was an honest system. The truth is that God doesn’t provide buildings and janitors and hymn books. Somebody has to pay for these things, and who else is going to pay it besides the people who use it? I’m never understood why we go to such great lengths to pretend like money isn’t ever an issue for churches. It seems like the secrecy just encourages bad behavior (millionaire pastors, etc.) instead of preventing it. Why not be open and honest about it? > [@dangermom](#): > > Mormons are supposed to give 10%, but not in a collection plate, and it’s all voluntary. IIRC, you need to show proof that you are current in your tithes in order to do temple ceremonies. ---
**Author:** ![Shagnasty](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9dc877/32.png) [@Shagnasty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shagnasty)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2009, 4:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-churches-charge-membership-fees/484679/25 "2009-02-06T16:05:58Z")
> [@Keeve](#): > > As a Jew who has experience only with the paid-membership system, I’m curious about the no-fee system. Are the voluntary donations adequate to cover the church’s expenses? Even if the building is complete and paid for, there are still electricity and phone bills, heating in the winter and a/c in the summer, not to mention salaries - at least for the maintenance or janitorial people, and I suppose the religous leaders have to eat too, even if they’re not technically “salaried”. > > (BTW: As far as I know, even though the vast majority of synagogues do have membership fees, and often other fees on top of that, they are invariably willing to give discounts or waivers to people who can’t afford it for whatever reason. Usually all it needs is a little talk with the people in charge.) In my experience. people just do it and there is no need to overthink it. All the minister/priest has to do is just tell what the numbers are and what the shortfall is and little old lady widowers will break out the checkbook. There is no need for bills or Excel spreadsheets. Lots of others pitch in as well of course but no one ever makes you or even barely pressures you. Most of my friends are Jews (no really) and that is something that struck me as quite odd when I first heard about it. People just give because they want to and there is no central authority that can make (or even coerce you) into giving any amount of money. It just works. ---
**Author:** ![amarinth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/3be4f8/32.png) [@amarinth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/amarinth)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2009, 4:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-churches-charge-membership-fees/484679/26 "2009-02-06T16:06:10Z")
> [@Keeve](#): > > As a Jew who has experience only with the paid-membership system, I’m curious about the no-fee system. Are the voluntary donations adequate to cover the church’s expenses? Even if the building is complete and paid for, there are still electricity and phone bills, heating in the winter and a/c in the summer, not to mention salaries - at least for the maintenance or janitorial people, and I suppose the religous leaders have to eat too, even if they’re not technically “salaried”. They are technically salaried. If you’re there and looking around you can see “money needs to go to \_\_\_\_\_\_.” (Electricity, classes, buildings, salaries, and charitable expenses among other things). The plate is passed around and people put money into it - if you want to designate your money goes to a certain fund, you can. If you’re ok with it going to a general fund, you can do that too. Certain services it’s said “the money from this offering is going to a certain program.” If it’s something you’re moved to donate to, you can give more or less. The church bases its budget on what’s been given in the past and what’s expected to be given in the future. At regular intervals, in the church bulletin there’s a notice of how much has been given in the fiscal year and how much the church was expecting to have been given. (And occasionally it’s mentioned during the service). Sometimes those two numbers match and it means that the church is fully funding its programs. Sometimes they don’t - which means that the church can’t do all it wants to do. I’ve gotten envelopes from every church I’ve given money to regularly, whether or not I was a member. They’re for tax purposes. Giving to most churches is a charitable donation and every January your giving is sent back to you so that you can prove it to the IRS. The envelopes make it possible for you to prove which cash donation was yours. I’ve never seen anyone pay attention to what anyone is doing with the offering plate. It’s between the person doing the giving or not doing the giving & God. ---
**Author:** ![wolfman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/a8b319/32.png) [@wolfman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wolfman)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2009, 4:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-churches-charge-membership-fees/484679/27 "2009-02-06T16:12:32Z")
Wow I had no idea it was that way at mosty places. The Missouri Synod Lutheran I grew up in never mentioned any names. Most adults had their little envelopes which they put a check in and put in on the plate. Most kids threw a buck or two in. I know the Pastor must have known about how much people put in, because he had to fill out the paper work for tax deductions, but I never heard of anybody else mention or care. There were specific thank yous for people who gave targetted dontions and wanted them. Like when the church school need a bunch of work done, and they asked for donations for th 20k needed. But most of the folks asked to not be mentioned in the thank you letter. ---
**Author:** ![sciurophobic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/cab0a1/32.png) [@sciurophobic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sciurophobic)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2009, 4:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-churches-charge-membership-fees/484679/28 "2009-02-06T16:26:08Z")
Synagogues also have the problem that because handling money is a big Sabbath no-no, they can’t collect donations during services. ---
**Author:** ![Eureka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/74df32/32.png) [@Eureka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Eureka)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2009, 4:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-churches-charge-membership-fees/484679/29 "2009-02-06T16:30:15Z")
> [@Keeve](#): > > As a Jew who has experience only with the paid-membership system, I’m curious about the no-fee system. Are the voluntary donations adequate to cover the church’s expenses? Even if the building is complete and paid for, there are still electricity and phone bills, heating in the winter and a/c in the summer, not to mention salaries - at least for the maintenance or janitorial people, and I suppose the religous leaders have to eat too, even if they’re not technically “salaried”. Churches (United Methodist) I have attended generally have a time of yet set aside for a Pledge Drive–during which time there is some encouragment to get people to tithe more (give closer to 10% of their income) and sometimes give sacrificially (stop buying coffee at Starbucks and give the money you save to the building fund). Based on the information from the pledge drive, the finance committee can set a budget. If halfway through the year, people in general aren’t giving as much as they pledged, someone from the church may nag during announcements on Sunday morning–“Hey folks, just because school’s out and you all go on vacation doesn’t mean the church doesn’t have to pay the mortgage” (I’ve also seen more formal written forms of nagging). And sometimes, churches do find themselves needing to cut costs–the choir director at my present church has asked us to name golden oldies we’d like to sing again, because she doesn’t have much/any budget to buy new music. A former church I attended went through at least a year of describing one budget item every week. The obvious big ticket items–salaries for the minister, etc–but also the little things–like $25 a month for internet access. It was interesting to hear about some of the forgotten little practicalities. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2009, 4:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-churches-charge-membership-fees/484679/30 "2009-02-06T16:34:52Z")
> [@](#): > > Now, most churches around here will give their members numbered and pre-printed envelopes for tithes and offerings. > [@](#): > > Forgot to add this too… the envelopes are tracked. IIRC, they have bar codes on them, but I may be mixing up my current church with a different one. This is supposedly done for tax purposes. They keep a record of how much you donate and you can claim it as a charitable deduction at the end of the year. I would speculate that the directness of the request for money rises as the size of the membership decreases. It costs just as much to heat a synagogue as it does to heat a church but most communities have a much larger number of Christians than Jews. So churches can more easily ignore the presense of free riders and have the rest of the membership cover the basic costs. A smaller membership means that they have to ensure that every individual is paying their share. ---
**Author:** ![suranyi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e36b37/32.png) [@suranyi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/suranyi)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2009, 4:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-churches-charge-membership-fees/484679/31 "2009-02-06T16:57:53Z")
> [@sciurophobic](#): > > Synagogues also have the problem that because handling money is a big Sabbath no-no, they can’t collect donations during services. That’s exactly what I was going to say. That is, IMO, the big reason why the money collection system ended up so differently in Jewish congregatios vs. Christian congregations. Ed ---
**Author:** ![dangermom](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e274bd/32.png) [@dangermom](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dangermom)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2009, 5:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-churches-charge-membership-fees/484679/32 "2009-02-06T17:01:51Z")
> [@even\_sven](#): > > [On Mormons] > IIRC, you need to show proof that you are current in your tithes in order to do temple ceremonies. Not exactly. One gets a temple recommend by having an interview with the bishop and stake president and answering a set list of questions. One of them is “Are you a full tithe payer?” At no point does one show proof of income; it’s all honor system. If you define yourself as a full tithe payer, no one is going to argue with you (even if it’s transparently obvious that you’re lying, which I hope is rare). A person with no income who pays no tithing at all is a full tithe payer, as long as she is willing to tithe when she does earn money. In the temple, we make solemn covenants with God that involve more commitment than just paying tithing. Why make those covenants if you’re not even keeping the less serious commandments you’ve already promised to honor? ---
**Author:** ![Desert\_Nomad](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/desert_nomad/32/177_2.png) [@Desert\_Nomad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Desert_Nomad)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2009, 5:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-churches-charge-membership-fees/484679/33 "2009-02-06T17:11:26Z")
The mosques I have been to have never used envelopes - it is all anonymous donations. I think my mom’s church (Catholic) uses such “tracked” envelopes tho… Presbetarian churches I am familiar with also do not track donations. ---
**Author:** ![NinjaChick](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/71c47a/32.png) [@NinjaChick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NinjaChick)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2009, 5:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-churches-charge-membership-fees/484679/34 "2009-02-06T17:12:14Z")
> [@sciurophobic](#): > > Synagogues also have the problem that because handling money is a big Sabbath no-no, they can’t collect donations during services. That’s a good point, but it wouldn’t be an actual reason for why a reform synagogue would do it (beyond 'because it’s tradition), would it? I mean, we had Hebrew school\* on Saturday mornings and I remember there being Habitat for Humanity events on Saturdays - reform Jews tend to be pretty lax with the actual rules for the sabbath. \*While we’re here, I have a theory that there is no Jewish kid in the world who likes Hebrew school; either you loathe it (more common) or you’re the type who wants to eventually go off to rabbinical school. Anyone agree? ---
**Author:** ![StGermain](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/stgermain/32/2868_2.png) [@StGermain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/StGermain)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2009, 5:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-churches-charge-membership-fees/484679/35 "2009-02-06T17:13:55Z")
In the Catholic parishes I’ve belonged to, you get envelopes, if you choose to use them. No one’s going to give you the stinkeye if your donations don’t meet some specific level. However, you are supposed to recognize that it’s your responsibility to support the parish as it is the next guy’s. When I haven’t been able to give, I did the bulletin on my computer, photocopied the couple hundreds needs and stapled them. I’ve helped count the collection. Nobody’s making value judgements about who is giving what. They’re too busy uncrumpling wadded up cash, trying to decipher the handwriting on the checks, and gettting it all logged correctly for tax purposes. Just yesterday I received a note in the mail for tax purposed outlining what I donated in 2008. StG ---
**Author:** ![JerseyFrank](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/bcef8e/32.png) [@JerseyFrank](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JerseyFrank)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2009, 5:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-churches-charge-membership-fees/484679/36 "2009-02-06T17:21:13Z")
> [@dangermom](#): > > In the temple, we make solemn covenants with God that involve more commitment than just paying tithing. Why make those covenants if you’re not even keeping the less serious commandments you’ve already promised to honor? That doesn’t make sense to me. Wouldn’t keeping “more serious” covenants be more important than keeping relatively trivial ones? If someone promised me they’d watch / care for my child while I was absent, I’d probably care more about them breaking that commitment than I would if they broke a promise to only eat 2 cookies and no more. ---
**Author:** ![dangermom](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e274bd/32.png) [@dangermom](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dangermom)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2009, 5:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-churches-charge-membership-fees/484679/37 "2009-02-06T17:40:25Z")
If I can’t keep a small promise, why would I think I could keep a big one? Would you give me 5 kids to babysit if I’d already proved to you that I couldn’t care for one? Or give me a lot of money to handle at work if I was in the habit of not taking care of small amounts of money? At any rate, I was speaking from a personal perspective. Like I said, no one is checking your income to make sure your tithing matches; you can lie your way in if you like, so it isn’t really a case of a boss deciding what responsibility to give an employee. Lying to God isn’t generally considered to be a good idea, but if I decide to do that it’s my own problem. Likewise, if I already know I’m not keeping certain commandments I ought to, why would I take on more? Tithing is the practice version; it makes no sense to take on more if I can’t do it. ---
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2009, 5:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-churches-charge-membership-fees/484679/38 "2009-02-06T17:40:31Z")
**Shagnasty** posted what I would’ve written about my own Episcopal church (which is the biggest and wealthiest in the diocese, but which takes the same approach as his). Our church emphasizes “stewardship” rather than fundraising or dues, and is good at letting us all know about the many good works being done with our money - outreach, worship, music, volunteer programs, youth programs, adult Christian education, repairs and overhead, etc. We are also assessed by the diocese a portion of the church’s budget for diocesan programs. Tithing is the Biblical ideal and is encouraged, but not all that strongly because, IMHO, it’s unrealistic for most people. Our previous rector liked to tell a story about a priest going before his parish to say, “I have some good news, and I have some bad news. The good news is, we have all the money we need to do all of the wonderful things we want to do in our church, thanks be to God. The bad news is, most of it is still in your pockets.” ---
**Author:** ![installLSC](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/54ee81/32.png) [@installLSC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/installLSC)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2009, 5:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-churches-charge-membership-fees/484679/39 "2009-02-06T17:40:48Z")
The question I have is what exactly does membership get you at most churches? Do you get access to services non-members get, right to vote on church decisions, etc? I was raised Catholic and since you become a member on baptism, joining a specific parish is just a matter of calling your parish office. I knew plenty of people who didn’t donate or even attend church that much, and scheduling baptisms was no problem. Considering how many people donate in cash and don’t bother with envelopes (very common from my altar boy experience), it would be hard to tell who’s contributing anyway. Since you have to go to CCD (catechism) classes to get first communion or confirmation, you pay around $50 for the classes but your other contributions aren’t factored in. Don’t know about weddings but I also know of a lot of marginal Catholics who got married with no trouble. ---
**Author:** ![RiverRunner](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/977dab/32.png) [@RiverRunner](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RiverRunner)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2009, 6:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-churches-charge-membership-fees/484679/40 "2009-02-06T18:07:13Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > This is supposedly done for tax purposes. They keep a record of how much you donate and you can claim it as a charitable deduction at the end of the year. Yep. We got our statement for 2008 just last week. (Southern Baptist church, by the way.) > [@StGermain](#): > > I’ve helped count the collection. Nobody’s making value judgements about who is giving what. They’re too busy uncrumpling wadded up cash, trying to decipher the handwriting on the checks, and gettting it all logged correctly for tax purposes. > StG Yeah, that’s pretty much par for the course. The quicker you can get all that sorted out, the quicker you can get home. > [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](#): > > Our church emphasizes “stewardship” rather than fundraising or dues, and is good at letting us all know about the many good works being done with our money - outreach, worship, music, volunteer programs, youth programs, adult Christian education, repairs and overhead, etc. Yes. The pastor has an obligation to occasionally speak on stewardship; the topic is definitely biblical. Our pastor has gone so far as to say, “If you don’t feel led by God to give, then don’t give.” I can’t think there are too many people present who fit that category, though. > [@installLSC](#): > > The question I have is what exactly does membership get you at most churches? Do you get access to services non-members get, right to vote on church decisions, etc? As a member, you do get the right to vote on church decisions. As far as access to services, the only thing I can think of is that some churches reserve their facilities for weddings, etc. to members. On the other hand, others don’t; it varies from church to church. RR [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-churches-charge-membership-fees/484679.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-churches-charge-membership-fees/484679.md?page=3)