# Do churches charge membership fees? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [February 6, 2009, 6:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-churches-charge-membership-fees/484679 "2009-02-06T06:57:18Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2009, 6:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-churches-charge-membership-fees/484679/41 "2009-02-06T18:09:34Z")
> [@Desert\_Nomad](#): > > Presbetarian churches I am familiar with also do not track donations. I am a Lutheran, and we use the offering envelope system. Actually, I use a direct deposit system called Simply Giving. But we always track who gave how much, so we can deduct the donations from our taxes. I have served on the church council at my church, and on the stewardship committee, as well as counted the offering on Sundays (and did the annual financial review). All the pastors I am familiar with make it a point not to know who gave how much. This is confidential. And the pastor is not allowed to be present when the offering is counted, under our bylaws. You are a member of our church if you join. We don’t require a pledge, although you get a box of envelopes every year, and if you donate by check, the offering counters look up your name in the roster to give you credit. But you remain a member for as long as you either [ol][li]make a donation of record at least once every two years, or [\*]receive the Eucharist and fill out a communion card.[/ol]But you are not required to give a dime if you don’t want to. [/li] We have many families on our roster who don’t donate at all, but only the treasurer knows who they are, and she doesn’t tell anyone. Non-members are charged a building fee for weddings (we have a kitchen which they can use, etc.) We don’t charge for baptisms, even for non-members, but they have to attend the classes. And we always ask if they want to join. Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![\_Undecided\_Adrian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/_/eada6e/32.png) [@\_Undecided\_Adrian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/_Undecided_Adrian)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2009, 7:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-churches-charge-membership-fees/484679/42 "2009-02-06T19:01:32Z")
That will sound strange to you Americans, but here in Germany you pay church taxes to our IRS equivalent which are passed on to the church you belong to. That amounts to 8% of income tax, so around 3% of income. Of course if you are in no church or in one that doesn’t take part in this system you don’t have to pay. There are still collections in services, but they receive comparatively little money, most people just get rid of their small change. I think if they didn’t have this system here the churches would be in big trouble, since church attendance is nowhere near US levels. ---
**Author:** ![not\_alice](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/not_alice/32/7283_2.png) [@not\_alice](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/not_alice)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2009, 7:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-churches-charge-membership-fees/484679/43 "2009-02-06T19:59:34Z")
> [@JerseyFrank](#): > > Forgot to add this too… the envelopes are tracked. IIRC, they have bar codes on them, but I may be mixing up my current church with a different one. I know a friend in FL went to a Catholic church that not only had bar codes on the envelopes, but published a lot of revealing, guilt-inspiring collection statistics in the weekly newsletter. I found that rather distasteful. One thing on my mind the last couple of days - I noticed recently in the local Catholic Church newsletter that girlfriend brought home that they publish the weekly totals for the collection plate. The first time, I attributed its apparent size to it being Christmas time. But the late January take seems just as high. Rough calculations I need to research more, but in a town where the per capita income is something like 30K, it may be that every man, woman and child at Mass is putting in 1K per year. Either that or a few local rich guys are dropping in some serious bling. So far, just a back of the envelope calculation of inside the envelope numbers, but does this seem ballpark reasonable to more experienced folks here? ---
**Author:** ![davidm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/davidm/32/225_2.png) [@davidm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/davidm)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2009, 8:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-churches-charge-membership-fees/484679/44 "2009-02-06T20:03:38Z")
I’m pretty sure the Church of Scientology does. ---
**Author:** ![Foxy40](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/a9a28c/32.png) [@Foxy40](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Foxy40)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2009, 8:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-churches-charge-membership-fees/484679/45 "2009-02-06T20:43:37Z")
Yet another Catholic sounding off. You do not have to pay a membership fee or give a dime as long as you don’t want to be considered a member. A member has a certain expectation to contribute. My children attend Catholic school and in order for my family to be considered a “member” and get the “parishioner” rate, I must contribute at least $1000 per year. They figure $20 per week. Interesting enough, they don’t expect the envelope in the basket each week to be considered a member…as long as they get that amount, it can be in one bulk payment once per year. I dislike the church but love the school so I play the game. However, if you “owe” the church money…even if you sit in the front pew and the priests knows you by name, you are not a member without the set amount of cold hard cash. Makes me sick but I will play the game until graduation rather than pay the extra $5000 per year for the “Non parishioner rate”. ---
**Author:** ![Dangerosa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/22d042/32.png) [@Dangerosa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dangerosa)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2009, 8:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-churches-charge-membership-fees/484679/46 "2009-02-06T20:49:55Z")
> [@Krokodil](#): > > I’m told that Mormon and Unitarian churches have a very formal 10% tithing arrangement. At our Catholic church, my dad used to just flip in a $20 every week (raised to $50 in his later years). Unitarians? You are kidding right? There isn’t much formal about Unitarians. Ours apologizes about asking for money at pledge time. ---
**Author:** ![iamthewalrus\_3](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/258eb7/32.png) [@iamthewalrus\_3](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iamthewalrus_3)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2009, 9:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-churches-charge-membership-fees/484679/47 "2009-02-06T21:05:21Z")
> [@Todderbob](#): > > I know that there are certain Evangelical Christian churches that charge 10+% for membership – and it is mandatory. There was one in Central Columbus. How does that even work? Do you have to bring in a filled-out tax return every year for them to verify that you’re really paying 10%? ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2009, 9:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-churches-charge-membership-fees/484679/48 "2009-02-06T21:10:30Z")
> [@not\_alice](#): > > One thing on my mind the last couple of days - I noticed recently in the local Catholic Church newsletter that girlfriend brought home that they publish the weekly totals for the collection plate. > > The first time, I attributed its apparent size to it being Christmas time. But the late January take seems just as high. Rough calculations I need to research more, but in a town where the per capita income is something like 30K, it may be that every man, woman and child at Mass is putting in 1K per year. > > Either that or a few local rich guys are dropping in some serious bling. > > So far, just a back of the envelope calculation of inside the envelope numbers, but does this seem ballpark reasonable to more experienced folks here? Seems high to me, although Christmas is the best season for collections. Although tithing (10% of income) is the Biblical default, so if everyone tithed, they should be averaging $3K per person, not one. Our congregation doesn’t tithe either, unfortunately, although, as you mention, some people give much more than others. Although it is not always the richest who give the most. We also have what an old pastor of mine used to call the Grandma Nelsons, who has been giving ten dollars a week since she joined. In 1942. Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![hajario](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hajario/32/171_2.png) [@hajario](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/hajario)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2009, 9:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-churches-charge-membership-fees/484679/49 "2009-02-06T21:10:54Z")
> [@NinjaChick](#): > > That’s a good point, but it wouldn’t be an actual reason for why a reform synagogue would do it (beyond 'because it’s tradition), would it? I mean, we had Hebrew school\* on Saturday mornings and I remember there being Habitat for Humanity events on Saturdays - reform Jews tend to be pretty lax with the actual rules for the sabbath. Nice point except for the fact that bar mitzvah study isn’t forbidden on the Sabbath in any form of Judaism. You were brought up Jewish and yet for years you have been making posts like this with backhanded insults towards your upbringing. What’s your real issue? > [@](#): > > While we’re here, I have a theory that there is no Jewish kid in the world who likes Hebrew school; either you loathe it (more common) or you’re the type who wants to eventually go off to rabbinical school. Anyone agree? No. I liked it ok at the time and considered it an important thing to do. So did some of my friends/classmates. Others certainly did hate it. My girlfriend wanted to attend Rosh Hashana services last year so we went but that was the first time I had been to temple in like fifteen years. ---
**Author:** ![JerseyFrank](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/bcef8e/32.png) [@JerseyFrank](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JerseyFrank)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2009, 9:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-churches-charge-membership-fees/484679/50 "2009-02-06T21:19:20Z")
> [@dangermom](#): > > Likewise, if I already know I’m not keeping certain commandments I ought to, why would I take on more? Tithing is the practice version; it makes no sense to take on more if I can’t do it. I guess I have to be in it to understand it. My commitment to my marriage isn’t related to my commitment to tithe. The “commandments” I’ve pledged to keep aren’t related except that I have to lie about one to get the church to recognize the other. Let’s say I’m not keeping my tithing commitment. Should I just postpone my commitment to not killing people? I’m not trying to mock it; I’m just struggling to understand how not tithing should prevent me from making other moral obligations. Last post from me on the subject. I accept that I don’t understand your religion enough to understand that keeping these commandments you reference might conflict with tithing. Thanks for your reply. ---
**Author:** ![ITR\_champion](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/c67d28/32.png) [@ITR\_champion](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ITR_champion)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2009, 9:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-churches-charge-membership-fees/484679/51 "2009-02-06T21:32:02Z")
In Germany, if you officially designate yourself as a member of a particular church, then a portion of your tax money goes to that church. I’ve heard that the number of people who participate in that system is actually much larger than the number who attend church on a weekly basis. Since most schools in Germany are affiliated with churches, they need money to run the schools (and other charities as well, of course.) ---
**Author:** ![Thudlow\_Boink](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thudlow_boink/32/320_2.png) [@Thudlow\_Boink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Thudlow_Boink)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2009, 9:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-churches-charge-membership-fees/484679/52 "2009-02-06T21:37:26Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > Although tithing (10% of income) is the Biblical default How so? I can only find mention of the tithe in the Old Testament law, along with other rules about Temple sacrifices and “wave offerings” and Levites and other things that aren’t part of the modern Christian experience. ---
**Author:** ![Todderbob](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/e47774/32.png) [@Todderbob](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Todderbob)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2009, 10:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-churches-charge-membership-fees/484679/53 "2009-02-06T22:09:12Z")
> [@Thudlow\_Boink](#): > > How so? I can only find mention of the tithe in the Old Testament law, along with other rules about Temple sacrifices and “wave offerings” and Levites and other things that aren’t part of the modern Christian experience. It’s stated, more than a few times in the New Testament that **all** of the Old Testament should be obeyed. ---
**Author:** ![jkusters](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/fbc32d/32.png) [@jkusters](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jkusters)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2009, 10:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-churches-charge-membership-fees/484679/54 "2009-02-06T22:14:52Z")
Regarding UUers, I can speak about experience with two fellowships, but as anyone with UU experience can attest, what stands for any given fellowship is not necessarily going to stand for the next. At both fellowships, when one became a formal member, one was expected to support the fellowship in some way. Generally most people opt to support it financially, but support in terms of service was also welcomed, and sometimes preferred. If one supported it financially, the amount was generally defined in terms of percentage of gross income. I don’t remember what the amount was for First UU San Diego, but for UU Fellowship in Sunnyvale, the minister said anything was welcome, but the fellowship suggested an amount equal to 2 to 3 percent of income. (We give somewhere in the neighborhood of 2%, but we also volunteer with the RE program there, and will probably find other ways to volunteer, since we seem to have some kind of “volunteer’s elbow.”) ---
**Author:** ![Northern\_Piper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/northern_piper/32/5304_2.png) [@Northern\_Piper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Northern_Piper)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2009, 10:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-churches-charge-membership-fees/484679/55 "2009-02-06T22:20:55Z")
> [@Todderbob](#): > > It’s stated, more than a few times in the New Testament that **all** of the Old Testament should be obeyed. Where does it say that? I would say that [Peter’s Vision allowing all meat to be eaten](http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?book_id=51&chapter=10&version=31) and [Paul’s rejection of circumcision](http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?book_id=55&chapter=2&version=31) do not support your position. ---
**Author:** ![hajario](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hajario/32/171_2.png) [@hajario](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/hajario)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2009, 10:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-churches-charge-membership-fees/484679/56 "2009-02-06T22:39:39Z")
> [@Todderbob](#): > > It’s stated, more than a few times in the New Testament that **all** of the Old Testament should be obeyed. Quite the opposite actually. ---
**Author:** ![Todderbob](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/e47774/32.png) [@Todderbob](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Todderbob)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2009, 10:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-churches-charge-membership-fees/484679/57 "2009-02-06T22:53:36Z")
> [@hajario](#): > > Quite the opposite actually. Luke 16:17 Matthew 5:17 - From Jesus himself… _“Do not think that I have come to abolish the law or the prophets.”_ 2 Timothy 3:16 “All scripture is inspired by God,” don’t ignore god, now. Peter 20-21 - Don’t interpret this shit yourself. I could keep going on, but really, do I have to? ---
**Author:** ![hajario](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hajario/32/171_2.png) [@hajario](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/hajario)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2009, 11:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-churches-charge-membership-fees/484679/58 "2009-02-06T23:12:54Z")
Collosians 2:13 : When you were dead in your sins and in the uncircumcision of your sinful nature, God made you alive with Christ. He forgave us all our sins, 14having canceled the written code, with its regulations, that was against us and that stood opposed to us; he took it away, nailing it to the cross. 15And having disarmed the powers and authorities, he made a public spectacle of them, triumphing over them by the cross. 16Therefore do not let anyone judge you by what you eat or drink, or with regard to a religious festival, a New Moon celebration or a Sabbath day. 17These are a shadow of the things that were to come; the reality, however, is found in Christ. Ephebians 2:14 For he himself is our peace, who has made the two one and has destroyed the barrier, the dividing wall of hostility, 15by abolishing in his flesh the law with its commandments and regulations. You can go on all you want. You’re still incorrect. Christians generally keep a different Sabbath, don’t require circumcision, don’t keep kosher, don’t celebrate the same holidays. It’s the whole New Covenant thing. ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2009, 11:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-churches-charge-membership-fees/484679/59 "2009-02-06T23:18:03Z")
> [@Thudlow\_Boink](#): > > How so? I can only find mention of the tithe in the Old Testament law, along with other rules about Temple sacrifices and “wave offerings” and Levites and other things that aren’t part of the modern Christian experience. That’s mostly the part I was talking about. Also the parable of the Pharisee who tithed “mint and dill and cumin” ([Matt. 23:23 - see also Luke 11:42)](http://www.biblegateway.com/keyword/?search=Mint&version1=47&searchtype=all&bookset=4). Jesus says His followers should concentrate on mercy and justice, of course, but ‘without neglecting the others’. I don’t think tithing is a law, but 10% is a good figure to shoot for. Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![sugar\_and\_spice](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e8c25b/32.png) [@sugar\_and\_spice](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sugar_and_spice)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2009, 12:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-churches-charge-membership-fees/484679/60 "2009-02-07T00:19:02Z")
I am registered at a Catholic church but I was doing activities there before I officially signed up (and before I gave any money). The only reason I did register is because a friend was running for parish council and I wanted to vote for her. Since then I’ve given maybe $50 a year and I’ve never gotten any comments on it. There’s only one priest who even knows my name and I doubt he’s looking over the books every week. I get mailings asking for money but I’ve never heard or read anything I find at all offensive. I think this is a big YMMV area. People who generally like their church will probably say that everyone is welcome, if you can only give a few dollars then that’s okay. People who generally don’t like their church will probably tell you the leadership is greedy and demanding and that giving large sums is practically mandatory if you don’t want to be shunned. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-churches-charge-membership-fees/484679.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-churches-charge-membership-fees/484679.md?page=4)