# Do Confederate soldiers count for Memorial Day? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [May 28, 2013, 6:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-confederate-soldiers-count-for-memorial-day/659568 "2013-05-28T18:56:55Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Human\_Action](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/ac91a4/32.png) [@Human\_Action](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Human_Action)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2013, 10:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-confederate-soldiers-count-for-memorial-day/659568/21 "2013-05-28T22:39:14Z")
> [@Der\_Trihs](#): > > They were fighting for a monstrous cause; they were traitors both to America and to humanity. I wouldn’t give them any respect for any reason. Should the Germans give their respects for the Nazi SS who died in WWII? The SS? No, they were engaged in heinous war crimes. Regular Wehrmacht, Kriegsmarine, or Luftwaffe? Certainly. ---
**Author:** ![Stratocaster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/stratocaster/32/16393_2.png) [@Stratocaster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stratocaster)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2013, 10:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-confederate-soldiers-count-for-memorial-day/659568/22 "2013-05-28T22:41:25Z")
> [@MaxTheVool](#): > > As for the comparison to the Nazis, well, suppose there’s a family in Munich who had a grandfather who was a Luftwaffe pilot shot down in 1941 and a great-grandfather who was a pilot shot down in 1916. Should we tell them that they can only mourn or remember one of the two? Nope. But if he tried to tell me I have to honor either, he wouldn’t have a lot of luck. Anyone can honor whomever they’d like. Me included. And I don’t use the day we honor our dead for their sacrifice to also honor some of the guys who put them in that state. I have no intense ongoing animus, I don’t hate the South or anything like that, I just see no reason to honor the Confederate dead on Memorial Day. Quite the contrary. ---
**Author:** ![Peremensoe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ce7236/32.png) [@Peremensoe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Peremensoe)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2013, 10:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-confederate-soldiers-count-for-memorial-day/659568/23 "2013-05-28T22:48:46Z")
> [@Skammer](#): > > The Confederate soldiers were as American as the Union soldiers. Yes. The modern United States is the successor state to _both_ Union and Confederacy (plus some other territories). > [@Stratocaster](#): > > That makes it worse, not better, IMO. It makes the War itself the greater horror in our history, yes. If only _we_ could have found another way. ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2013, 10:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-confederate-soldiers-count-for-memorial-day/659568/24 "2013-05-28T22:50:11Z")
> [@Human\_Action](#): > > The SS? No, they were engaged in heinous war crimes. And the entire purpose of the Confederacy was to continue to engage in crimes against humanity. The Confederacy was created for a purpose about as close to pure evil as you will ever find in the real world. Defending the Confederacy in any way was a monstrous act. ---
**Author:** ![Human\_Action](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/ac91a4/32.png) [@Human\_Action](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Human_Action)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2013, 10:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-confederate-soldiers-count-for-memorial-day/659568/25 "2013-05-28T22:50:37Z")
[In case it matters:](http://www.civilwarhome.com/conscription.htm) > [@](#): > > Conscripts accounted for one-fourth to one-third of the Confederate armies east of the Mississippi between Apr. 1864 and early 1865. ---
**Author:** ![Stratocaster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/stratocaster/32/16393_2.png) [@Stratocaster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stratocaster)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2013, 10:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-confederate-soldiers-count-for-memorial-day/659568/26 "2013-05-28T22:51:34Z")
> [@Peremensoe](#): > > It makes the War itself the greater horror in our history, yes. If only _we_ could have found another way. Yep. That still doesn’t change the fact that the Confederacy took up arms against our country and killed our soldiers. I’m repeating myself because I’m taking from your response that this was some kind of rebuttal, but if that was your intention, I’m not seeing it. If you were just making an aside, okay, I agree. ---
**Author:** ![Human\_Action](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/ac91a4/32.png) [@Human\_Action](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Human_Action)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2013, 10:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-confederate-soldiers-count-for-memorial-day/659568/27 "2013-05-28T22:54:28Z")
> [@Der\_Trihs](#): > > And the entire purpose of the Confederacy was to continue to engage in crimes against humanity. The Confederacy was created for a purpose about as close to pure evil as you will ever find in the real world. Defending the Confederacy in any way was a monstrous act. So, no honoring of Grandpa Fritz the Wehrmacht private, either? Do you extent this dishonor to American war dead of ignoble wars, such as the various Indian Wars, the occupation of the Philippines, or the Iraq War? ---
**Author:** ![Slithy\_Tove](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slithy_tove/32/18248_2.png) [@Slithy\_Tove](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slithy_Tove)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2013, 10:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-confederate-soldiers-count-for-memorial-day/659568/28 "2013-05-28T22:55:08Z")
Then how about the Indians? They fought against the US, then assimilated and fought in its wars. They don’t get a day, just sports teams and weapons systems (Thanksgiving? I don’t think so.) ---
**Author:** ![Peremensoe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ce7236/32.png) [@Peremensoe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Peremensoe)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2013, 10:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-confederate-soldiers-count-for-memorial-day/659568/29 "2013-05-28T22:56:27Z")
It is a rebuttal. “Our country,” for patriotic modern Americans, is not the twenty-odd unseceded states of the late-'61 Union. It is the whole thing. ---
**Author:** ![Snowboarder\_Bo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowboarder_bo/32/229_2.png) [@Snowboarder\_Bo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snowboarder_Bo)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2013, 10:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-confederate-soldiers-count-for-memorial-day/659568/30 "2013-05-28T22:56:50Z")
Fuck no. They fought against the United States. Should we also honor Japanese and Nazi soldiers from WW2? North Korean soldiers? Americans who defected to another country and then fought against the US? Fuck those assholes. ---
**Author:** ![Human\_Action](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/ac91a4/32.png) [@Human\_Action](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Human_Action)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2013, 11:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-confederate-soldiers-count-for-memorial-day/659568/31 "2013-05-28T23:00:08Z")
> [@Slithy\_Tove](#): > > Then how about the Indians? They fought against the US, then assimilated and fought in its wars. They don’t get a day, just sports teams and weapons systems (Thanksgiving? I don’t think so.) Apples and oranges, as that was a process that played over centuries and was highly decentralized. Had there been a singular Indian War that played out over a few years, against a centralized Indian nation, this might well raise the same questions. ---
**Author:** ![El\_Kabong](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/el_kabong/32/496_2.png) [@El\_Kabong](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/El_Kabong)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2013, 11:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-confederate-soldiers-count-for-memorial-day/659568/32 "2013-05-28T23:01:17Z")
I’ve got to say, I can’t really see why one would include the Confederacy in Memorial Day celebrations. I should note, however, that my late Dad, a WW II combat vet, also was a reenactor who played a Confederate artillery sergeant. A couple times he showed up, by request, in confederate uniform at Memorial Day ceremonies in his PA hometown with no one apparently objecting, so make of that what you will. ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2013, 11:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-confederate-soldiers-count-for-memorial-day/659568/33 "2013-05-28T23:02:34Z")
> [@Human\_Action](#): > > So, no honoring of Grandpa Fritz the Wehrmacht private, either? I wouldn’t, although that’s not quite as bad since it’s not like the concentration camps and other atrocities had been running publicly ever since the founding of Germany. > [@Human\_Action](#): > > Do you extent this dishonor to American war dead of ignoble wars, such as the various Indian Wars, the occupation of the Philippines, or the Iraq War? Considering that I’ve said in the past that I’d have been happy if the entire US invasion force in Iraq had been killed, I’m certainly not going to pretend to care about the ones who _did_ die. And the Confederacy was far, far more evil than our already evil attack on Iraq. And the Indian Wars are much the same as the Confederacy; we were the bad guys, the monsters, the genocidal killers; at _least_ as bad as the Nazis. We just won, that’s all. ---
**Author:** ![Stratocaster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/stratocaster/32/16393_2.png) [@Stratocaster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stratocaster)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2013, 11:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-confederate-soldiers-count-for-memorial-day/659568/34 "2013-05-28T23:04:50Z")
> [@Peremensoe](#): > > It is a rebuttal. “Our country,” for patriotic modern Americans, is not the twenty-odd unseceded states of the late-'61 Union. It is the whole thing. Who said otherwise? Why would that change my logic for not honoring the traitorous Confederate soldiers, who killed American soldiers in the service of an evil cause? At that point, had you asked any of those Confederate soldiers (before they were rendered “honored” dead) if they were citizens of the U.S., they would have disabused you of that notion quickly. Their allegiance was directed elsewhere. Fine, they made their choice. Fuck 'em. Honestly, I’m not trying to be antagonistic. This one is just self-evident to me. On the day we honor our soldiers who sacrificed their lives, I do not include in that honor men who forsake their allegiance to this country and killed the very men we are honoring. The fact that the South lost and in doing so are now back in the club doesn’t change that a whit. Had they won, their “separateness” would have endured. It only didn’t because the good guys won. ---
**Author:** ![drewtwo99](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/d07c76/32.png) [@drewtwo99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/drewtwo99)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2013, 11:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-confederate-soldiers-count-for-memorial-day/659568/35 "2013-05-28T23:05:49Z")
Remembering them is one thing… but honoring them? No fucking way. ---
**Author:** ![Human\_Action](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/ac91a4/32.png) [@Human\_Action](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Human_Action)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2013, 11:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-confederate-soldiers-count-for-memorial-day/659568/36 "2013-05-28T23:07:56Z")
> [@Der\_Trihs](#): > > I wouldn’t, although that’s not quite as bad since it’s not like the concentration camps and other atrocities had been running publicly ever since the founding of Germany. Any exceptions for conscripts? > [@Der Trihs](#): > > Considering that I’ve said in the past that I’d have been happy if the entire US invasion force in Iraq had been killed, I’m certainly not going to pretend to care about the ones who _did_ die. And the Confederacy was far, far more evil than our already evil attack on Iraq. And the Indian Wars are much the same as the Confederacy; we were the bad guys, the monsters, the genocidal killers; at _least_ as bad as the Nazis. We just won, that’s all. In that case, your vision of Memorial Day is already so different from the modern conception of honoring all American war dead that it’s only somewhat related to the particular question of honoring Confederate dead. Not condemning your view, just pointing this out. ---
**Author:** ![Peremensoe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ce7236/32.png) [@Peremensoe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Peremensoe)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2013, 11:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-confederate-soldiers-count-for-memorial-day/659568/37 "2013-05-28T23:12:40Z")
> [@Snowboarder\_Bo](#): > > Fuck no. They fought against the United States. Should we also honor Japanese and Nazi soldiers from WW2? North Korean soldiers? Americans who defected to another country and then fought against the US? > > Fuck those assholes. Again, they were answering the call of their country on essentially the same terms as the Union soldiers. Maybe a little more personally, since their homes were actually under threat of invasion. And their country is, integrally, inextricably, part of ours. The United States of today is much more than the “United States” of Lincoln. As I noted before, the melded heritage is explicitly recognized in the lore of _the United States military_, which has named forts and ships and units and all kinds of things for Confederate icons. We damn sure don’t do that for Nazis or any other foreigners. ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2013, 11:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-confederate-soldiers-count-for-memorial-day/659568/38 "2013-05-28T23:15:22Z")
> [@Human\_Action](#): > > Any exceptions for conscripts? Given human nature, I suppose it’s inevitable that a lot of people will commit atrocities when being compelled by the threat of death. But we still shouldn’t _honor_ them for it. Would you support honoring a man for raping a woman because someone pointed a gun at him and ordered him to? ---
**Author:** ![Captain\_Amazing](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6de8d8/32.png) [@Captain\_Amazing](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Captain_Amazing)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2013, 11:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-confederate-soldiers-count-for-memorial-day/659568/39 "2013-05-28T23:15:53Z")
Confederate Memorial Day is the 4th Monday in April in Alabama. ---
**Author:** ![Stratocaster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/stratocaster/32/16393_2.png) [@Stratocaster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stratocaster)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2013, 11:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-confederate-soldiers-count-for-memorial-day/659568/40 "2013-05-28T23:18:39Z")
> [@Peremensoe](#): > > And their country is, integrally, inextricably, part of ours. The United States of today is much more than the “United States” of Lincoln. You keep repeating this non sequitur as if anyone disagrees with it, simultaneously ignoring the fact that the Confederacy did NOT consider themselves part of this country. The fact that the Union now endures does not change the fact that the Confederacy wanted no part of it, and punctuated that sentiment by killing American soldiers. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-confederate-soldiers-count-for-memorial-day/659568.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-confederate-soldiers-count-for-memorial-day/659568.md?page=3)