# Do Confederate soldiers count for Memorial Day? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [May 28, 2013, 6:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-confederate-soldiers-count-for-memorial-day/659568 "2013-05-28T18:56:55Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 9
**Author:** ![Human\_Action](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/ac91a4/32.png) [@Human\_Action](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Human_Action)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2013, 2:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-confederate-soldiers-count-for-memorial-day/659568/161 "2013-05-29T14:20:47Z")
> [@Snowboarder\_Bo](#): > > Do you agree or disagree that Memorial Day was originally known as Decoration Day? Decoration Day was a regional state holiday, which began in 1868. It had a counterpart in the South, Confederate Memorial Day, which began in 1866. Memorial Day, the national holiday, was declared as such [in 1971](http://www.va.gov/opa/speceven/memday/history.asp). It is the successor to both regional holidays. The law you keep citing, from 2000, establishes a “moment of remembrance” to be observed at 3 pm each Memorial Day. ---
**Author:** ![Human\_Action](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/ac91a4/32.png) [@Human\_Action](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Human_Action)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2013, 2:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-confederate-soldiers-count-for-memorial-day/659568/162 "2013-05-29T14:23:09Z")
> [@Acsenray](#): > > It makes pretty clear what the Congress in 2000 thought Memorial Day was for. Their opinion is duly noted. The line about “encourage citizens to dedicate themselves to the values and principles for which those heroes of the United States died” rules out honoring many American war dead, since [some died for some pretty reprehensible values and principles](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wounded_Knee_Massacre). ---
**Author:** ![Human\_Action](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/ac91a4/32.png) [@Human\_Action](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Human_Action)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2013, 2:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-confederate-soldiers-count-for-memorial-day/659568/163 "2013-05-29T14:24:40Z")
> [@Boyo\_Jim](#): > > Look under the “Notes” tab above the language. It includes later revisions of the statute. Sure, but it’s a distinct law, made much later than the creation of Memorial Day. At most, it’s the 2000 Congress’ opinion on what the day _ought to_ mean, not what it was created to mean or means to individual Americans. ---
**Author:** ![Snowboarder\_Bo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowboarder_bo/32/229_2.png) [@Snowboarder\_Bo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snowboarder_Bo)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2013, 2:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-confederate-soldiers-count-for-memorial-day/659568/164 "2013-05-29T14:27:02Z")
> [@Human\_Action](#): > > Decoration Day was a regional state holiday, which began in 1868. It had a counterpart in the South, Confederate Memorial Day, which began in 1866. > > Memorial Day, the national holiday, was declared as such [in 1971](http://www.va.gov/opa/speceven/memday/history.asp). It is the successor to both regional holidays. > > The law you keep citing, from 2000, establishes a “moment of remembrance” to be observed at 3 pm each Memorial Day. Is this a “yes” or a “no” to the question I asked? In case you can’t remember it, here it is again: > [@Snowboarder\_Bo](#): > > Do you agree or disagree that Memorial Day was originally known as Decoration Day? ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2013, 2:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-confederate-soldiers-count-for-memorial-day/659568/165 "2013-05-29T14:28:01Z")
> [@Human\_Action](#): > > Their opinion is duly noted. The line about “encourage citizens to dedicate themselves to the values and principles for which those heroes of the United States died” rules out honoring many American war dead, since [some died for some pretty reprehensible values and principles](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wounded_Knee_Massacre). Regardless, it’s clear that they think it is for honoring people in service with the armed forces of the United States and not those who fought for a service actually at war against the United States. ---
**Author:** ![Human\_Action](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/ac91a4/32.png) [@Human\_Action](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Human_Action)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2013, 2:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-confederate-soldiers-count-for-memorial-day/659568/166 "2013-05-29T14:29:53Z")
> [@Snowboarder\_Bo](#): > > Is this a “yes” or a “no” to the question I asked? In case you can’t remember it, here it is again: It’s a no. Decoration Day was a predecessor, but they are different things. It’s not just a case of renaming the holiday, it’s a _different_ holiday. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2013, 2:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-confederate-soldiers-count-for-memorial-day/659568/167 "2013-05-29T14:31:02Z")
> [@Human\_Action](#): > > That is not 36 USC 116, that’s from the National Moment of Remembrance, Pub. L. 106-579, of **Dec. 28, 2000**. You’re confusing it with the actual statute that created Memorial Day as a federal holiday. 36 U.S.C. § 116 did not create Memorial Day. It was only enacted in 1998. ---
**Author:** ![Human\_Action](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/ac91a4/32.png) [@Human\_Action](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Human_Action)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2013, 2:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-confederate-soldiers-count-for-memorial-day/659568/168 "2013-05-29T14:31:24Z")
> [@Acsenray](#): > > Regardless, it’s clear that they think it is for honoring people in service with the armed forces of the United States and not those who fought for a service actually at war against the United States. So noted. I disagree with them. ---
**Author:** ![Human\_Action](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/ac91a4/32.png) [@Human\_Action](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Human_Action)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2013, 2:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-confederate-soldiers-count-for-memorial-day/659568/169 "2013-05-29T14:34:53Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > 36 U.S.C. § 116 did not create Memorial Day. It was only enacted in 1998. It dates from [Public Law 90-363](http://en.wikisource.org/wiki/Public_Law_90-363) at the latest, which was passed in 1968 and went into effect in 1971. I’m no wizard with statutes, is there anything earlier at the federal level? ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2013, 2:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-confederate-soldiers-count-for-memorial-day/659568/170 "2013-05-29T14:37:33Z")
I’m saying §116 was only enacted in 1998, not the holiday itself. There’s a resolution from 1966 referenced in an EO but I can’t find it. ---
**Author:** ![Snowboarder\_Bo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowboarder_bo/32/229_2.png) [@Snowboarder\_Bo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snowboarder_Bo)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2013, 2:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-confederate-soldiers-count-for-memorial-day/659568/171 "2013-05-29T14:38:44Z")
> [@Human\_Action](#): > > It’s a no. Decoration Day was a predecessor, but they are different things. It’s not just a case of renaming the holiday, it’s a _different_ holiday. I (and the United States federal government) disagree with you. You do know that Memorial Day, as a nomenclature, existed before 1971, don’t you? :dubious: ---
**Author:** ![Human\_Action](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/ac91a4/32.png) [@Human\_Action](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Human_Action)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2013, 2:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-confederate-soldiers-count-for-memorial-day/659568/172 "2013-05-29T14:39:40Z")
Per the VA cite above, let us note the spirit of rapprochement that marked the first Memorial Day, in 1866: > [@](#): > > Local springtime tributes to the Civil War dead already had been held in various places. One of the first occurred in Columbus, Miss., April 25, 1866, when a group of women visited a cemetery to decorate the graves of Confederate soldiers who had fallen in battle at Shiloh. Nearby were the graves of Union soldiers, neglected because they were the enemy. Disturbed at the sight of the bare graves, the women placed some of their flowers on those graves, as well. > [@Really Not All That Bright](#): > > I’m saying §116 was only enacted in 1998, not the holiday itself. There’s a resolution from 1966 referenced in an EO but I can’t find it. I stand corrected, then. So, it seems 1968/71 is the creation date? ---
**Author:** ![Human\_Action](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/ac91a4/32.png) [@Human\_Action](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Human_Action)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2013, 2:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-confederate-soldiers-count-for-memorial-day/659568/173 "2013-05-29T14:41:24Z")
> [@Snowboarder\_Bo](#): > > I (and the United States federal government) disagree with you. Also noted. > [@Snowboarder Bo](#): > > You do know that Memorial Day, as a nomenclature, existed before 1971, don’t you? :dubious: Yes, but that’s not what we’re talking about, here. We’re talking about what celebrations / honors should accompany the modern, national version of the holiday. If your state also celebrates its own Decoration Day, or Confederate Memorial Day, or what have you, that’s a different matter. ---
**Author:** ![Snowboarder\_Bo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowboarder_bo/32/229_2.png) [@Snowboarder\_Bo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snowboarder_Bo)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2013, 2:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-confederate-soldiers-count-for-memorial-day/659568/174 "2013-05-29T14:43:24Z")
[ > [@](#): > > The story of Memorial Day begins in the summer of 1865, when a prominent local druggist, Henry C. Welles, mentioned to some of his friends at a social gathering that while praising the living veterans of the Civil War it would be well to remember the patriotic dead by placing flowers on their graves. > [@](#): > > On May 26, 1966, President Lyndon B. Johnson, signed a Presidential Proclamation recognizing Waterloo as the Birthplace of Memorial Day ]([http://www.waterloony.com/memday.html](http://www.waterloony.com/memday.html)) Are you ready to concede yet? ---
**Author:** ![kaylasdad99](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kaylasdad99/32/3398_2.png) [@kaylasdad99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kaylasdad99)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2013, 2:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-confederate-soldiers-count-for-memorial-day/659568/175 "2013-05-29T14:47:01Z")
I’m okay with Memorial Day being used for honoring the advocates of two differing principles: The selling of furniture/major appliances and the selling of automobiles. ---
**Author:** ![Snowboarder\_Bo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowboarder_bo/32/229_2.png) [@Snowboarder\_Bo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snowboarder_Bo)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2013, 2:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-confederate-soldiers-count-for-memorial-day/659568/176 "2013-05-29T14:47:14Z")
How about now? [ > [@President Lyndon B. Johnson](#): > > Americans will be fighting and dying in Vietnam this Memorial Day, 1966, in fulfillment of our commitment to freedom. Their sacrifice is part of an ancient legacy that begins with man’s first act of transcendent courage, and that contains all that is noble and selfless in human character. > > Our own liberty was won in struggle against tyranny. In two world wars and in Korea, brave Americans and their allies gave their lives that men might live and prosper in freedom. > > We shall not forsake their sacrifice. We shall–because we must–persevere. > > We are totally committed to defeat this aggression. > > This nation has never left the field of battle in abject surrender of a cause for which it has fought. > > We shall not do so now. > > We shall see this through. > > Yet as we protect freedom by courage in arms, we shall every day continue the search for an honorable peace. > > It is tragic that young lives must be sacrificed, that great sums must be spent for the instruments of war, when the work of peace awaits man’s accomplishment in every land. America today–as in past years–is prepared to join in that work with any nation whose devotion is to peace with its neighbors, and a better life for its people. Let the guns of aggression be silent, we say, that the sounds of the builders, of the planters, of the teachers, may be heard. > > On this Memorial Day, as we honor the memory of brave men who have borne our colors in war, we pray to God for His mercy. We pray for the wisdom to find a way to end this struggle of nation against nation, of brother against brother. We pray that soon we may begin to build the only true memorial to man’s valor in war–a sane and hopeful environment for the generations to Come. > > The Congress, in a joint resolution approved May 11, 1950 (64 Stat. 158), has requested the President to issue a proclamation calling upon the people of the United States to observe each Memorial Day as a day of prayer for permanent peace and designating a period during each such day when the people of the United States might unite in such supplication: > > Now, Therefore, I, Lyndon B. Johnson, President of the United States of America, do hereby designate Memorial Day, Monday, May 30, 1966, as a day of prayer for permanent peace, and I designate the hour beginning in each locality at eleven o’clock in the morning of that day as a time to unite in such prayer. > > I urge the press, radio, television, and all other information media to cooperate in this observance. > > I also urge all of the people of this Nation to join me in prayer to the Almighty for the safety of our Nation’s sons and daughters in Vietnam, for His blessing on those who have sacrificed their lives for this Nation in this and all other struggles, and for His aid in building a world where freedom and justice prevail, and where all men live in friendship, understanding, and peace. > > By House Concurrent Resolution 587, the Eighty-ninth Congress has officially recognized that the patriotic tradition of observing Memorial Day began one hundred years ago in Waterloo, New York. In conformity with the request contained in that concurrent resolution, it is my privilege to call attention to the centennial observance of Memorial Day in Waterloo, New York, on May 30, 1966. > > In Witness Whereof, I have hereunto set my hand and caused the Seal of the United States of America to be affixed. > > DONE at the City of Washington this twenty-sixth day of May in the year of our Lord nineteen hundred and sixty-six, and of the Independence of the United States of America the one hundred and ninetieth. ]([Executive Order 14214—Keeping Education Accessible and Ending COVID-19 Vaccine Mandates in Schools | The American Presidency Project](http://www.presidency.ucsb.edu/ws/?pid=27618)) Memorial Day, originally known as Decoration Day, is to honor people who died in service to the United States of America. You are, and have been, wrong. ---
**Author:** ![Human\_Action](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/ac91a4/32.png) [@Human\_Action](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Human_Action)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2013, 2:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-confederate-soldiers-count-for-memorial-day/659568/177 "2013-05-29T14:47:30Z")
> [@](#): > > Nothing resulted from this suggestion until he advanced the idea again the following spring to General John B. Murray. So, we have two flower-laying celebrations in spring of 1866, one in Waterloo, New York on May 5, the other in Columbus, Mississippi on April 25. Both led to regional holidays, and later to a federal oneo. Why, again, does this disqualify the Confederate dead from honor? ---
**Author:** ![Human\_Action](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/ac91a4/32.png) [@Human\_Action](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Human_Action)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2013, 2:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-confederate-soldiers-count-for-memorial-day/659568/178 "2013-05-29T14:50:50Z")
> [@Snowboarder\_Bo](#): > > How about now? > > [url=[Executive Order 14214—Keeping Education Accessible and Ending COVID-19 Vaccine Mandates in Schools | The American Presidency Project](http://www.presidency.ucsb.edu/ws/?pid=27618)] That’s the “prayer for permanent peace” meaning that was previously cited and discussed. What of it? > [@Snowboarder Bo](#): > > Memorial Day, originally known as Decoration Day, is to honor people who died in service to the United States of America. They are different things, for the umpteenth time. ---
**Author:** ![Human\_Action](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/ac91a4/32.png) [@Human\_Action](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Human_Action)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2013, 2:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-confederate-soldiers-count-for-memorial-day/659568/179 "2013-05-29T14:52:08Z")
Tell you what, if your state still has a Decoration Day holiday on the books, I invite you to celebrate it as the Union-only, regional holiday that it was. If your state has a Confederate Memorial Day on the books, same invite. ---
**Author:** ![Snowboarder\_Bo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowboarder_bo/32/229_2.png) [@Snowboarder\_Bo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snowboarder_Bo)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2013, 2:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-confederate-soldiers-count-for-memorial-day/659568/180 "2013-05-29T14:52:24Z")
> [@Human\_Action](#): > > So, we have two flower-laying celebrations in spring of 1866, one in Waterloo, New York on May 5, the other in Columbus, Mississippi on April 25. Both led to regional holidays, and later to a federal oneo. > > Why, again, does this disqualify the Confederate dead from honor? You really just don’t get this, do you? They were not fighting for America. They did not bear our colors or fight for the Constitution of the United States. Your assertion that Memorial Day was created as a day for prayer is refuted by the very words of the proclamation you keep trying to quote, as it’s clear from the text of the proclamation that Memorial Day was already in existence and Congress (and the POTUS) were simply calling for that day to also be a day of prayer for peace. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-confederate-soldiers-count-for-memorial-day/659568.md?page=8) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-confederate-soldiers-count-for-memorial-day/659568.md?page=10)