# Do conspiracy theorists like "birthers" damage the brand of their party? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [August 1, 2009, 9:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-conspiracy-theorists-like-birthers-damage-the-brand-of-their-party/505004 "2009-08-01T21:57:21Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![fuzzypickles](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/9d8465/32.png) [@fuzzypickles](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/fuzzypickles)\ **Post date:** [August 3, 2009, 5:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-conspiracy-theorists-like-birthers-damage-the-brand-of-their-party/505004/41 "2009-08-03T17:26:45Z")
> [@L. G. Butts](#): > > But let’s face it, the 2000 election was unprecedented. Al Gore won the national popular vote and the election was basically decided by the conservative-leaning Supreme Court in a contreversial decision. Nitpick: It was not unprecedented. In 1824, [John Quincy Adams](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Quincy_Adams) was selected by a highly biased House of Representatives despite failing to win a majority of the popular vote. Ironically, he was also the son of an unpopular one-term president with [extreme right-wing, anti-freedom policies](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alien_and_Sedition_Acts)…hmmm. > [@LonesomePolecat](#): > > …but the Dems have similar numbers of people who believe Bush Jr. knew that 9/11 was going to happen. Nah, G.W.B. was too stupid to comprehend 9/11, even _after_ it happened. Perhaps his puppet masters (Dick Cheney, etc.) knew about 9/11 beforehand, and allowed it to happen to justify seizing the Iraqi oilfields (and making a pretty profit in the process) but we’ll never know for sure, unless one of them confesses on their deathbed. ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_L.A](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnny_l.a/32/1084_2.png) [@Johnny\_L.A](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_L.A)\ **Post date:** [August 3, 2009, 6:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-conspiracy-theorists-like-birthers-damage-the-brand-of-their-party/505004/42 "2009-08-03T18:00:14Z")
This rebuttal to the problems cited with the Kenyan ‘birth certificate’ is from another forum. It shows a little how these people think: > [@](#): > > If Kenya became independent in 1963, and then “officially” declared a republic in 1964, what “letterhead” should they have used for their new form of government where paper documents are concerned? > > People in government have been known to work on Saturday, and the name E.F. Lavender might be a somewhat common name as well. As for the file number, it could be taken to mean, serves the %^\* right by people who do have a sense for wanting justice to be served where criteria for the highest office of the land is concerned. > > I have a number of my own personal documents that are as old as this document, and many of them look in better condition. > > Your last note speaks for itself in that is vague at best. It can easily be concluded that from their response that they did not search through their archives, however, according to their computerized records that do not cover the 1960s, they have no record for his birth on August 4, 1961. Simply put, if one was to search their archives, they might likely find that Book 44B no loner exists, or that something is fishy with Page 5733, like maybe for a different person who has no record of death. ---
**Author:** ![Happy\_Fun\_Ball](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/happy_fun_ball/32/17664_2.png) [@Happy\_Fun\_Ball](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Happy_Fun_Ball)\ **Post date:** [August 3, 2009, 6:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-conspiracy-theorists-like-birthers-damage-the-brand-of-their-party/505004/43 "2009-08-03T18:03:16Z")
> [@Rune](#): > > That’s not what I wrote. I said the followers of an organization or event. If people protesting at G8 summits or pouring over pictures of Sarah Palin’s belly are Democrats, then it will influence my view of the Democratic party and if a non-trivial portion of an anti-war demonstration carry on with dumb-ass stupidity then it will influence my opinion on the demonstration. To the extend that it is beyond marginal fringe and given acceptance by the main. If some other non-Democrat people do some other silly stuff, of course this will not influence my opinion of the Democrats. And of course I have said nothing at all about individuals. You will only be judged by your own actions. OK, thanks for the clarification. Next question: do you think that all the Democrats pouring over Sarah Palin’s belly or people like Cindy Sheehan are given acceptance by the main portion of Democrats or those in power with a (D) after their name? IMHO, while the majority of Democrats don’t like Ms. Palin, they also don’t give a crap about clothes-gate or what her belly looks like. Just like the overwhelming majority of Democrats don’t give a crap about the anti-globalization nuts and think Cindy Sheehan is a nutcase, a nutcase with a point maybe, but a nutcase nonetheless. The difference between the aforementioned conspiracies and this whole Obama birthplace crap is that only 42% of Republicans believe he was born in this country. The majority of the party is either not sure or believes that a gigantic fraud/conspiracy is being perpetrated on the US public. Because of this I have a hard time judging the Democratic Party for all the rumors flying about Sarah Palin, but an easier time judging the Republicans about this birther crap. The difference between the current Republican and Democratic parties is highlighted by this whole fiasco. The Democrats, when confronted with a Cindy Sheehan or someone like Michael Moore, listen tolerantly to them and maybe adopt a point or two from their rhetoric, but in the main they view them with skepticism. Most Democrats I know think Cindy Sheehan is a nut and Moore is a blow hard propagandaist. On the other side, it seems to me that the majority of Republicans think that people like Rush Limbaugh and Bill O’Reilly are speaking the truth and are not blow hard propagandaists (while Michael Moore is an Un-American liar) and people like Joe the Plumber are viewed as serious contributors and allowed to make speeches at the National Convention (when IMHO, Joe is at least as nutty as Sheehan and probably even dumber). ---
**Author:** ![astorian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ad7895/32.png) [@astorian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/astorian)\ **Post date:** [August 3, 2009, 6:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-conspiracy-theorists-like-birthers-damage-the-brand-of-their-party/505004/44 "2009-08-03T18:26:23Z")
> [@fuzzypickles](#): > > Since when?? It seems to me that 911-Truthers are typically anti-semetic, which would make them lean more to the right than left. > > As for the anti-Obama “birthers”, that argument’s so silly that it doesn’t deserve to be labeled a conspiracy theory – more like a “Hey, I’m an idiot!” theory. :mad: Completely wrong. 9/11 truthers are overwhelmingly on the Left. And in the Democratic party, they’re not a mere fringe group: > **[22% Believe Bush Knew About 9/11 Attacks in Advance](https://www.rasmussenreports.com/public_content/politics/current_events/bush_administration/22_believe_bush_knew_about_9_11_attacks_in_advance)** > > Democrats in America are evenly divided on the question of whether George W. Bush knew about the 9/11 terrorist attacks in advance. More than a third of all Democrats believe Bush knew all about the 9/11 attack before it happened, and another 26% think it’s POSSIBLE. A mere 39% believe he did not know. On this subject, at least, sane Democrats are the fringe group within their party. ---
**Author:** ![Jophiel](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jophiel/32/66_2.png) [@Jophiel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jophiel)\ **Post date:** [August 3, 2009, 6:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-conspiracy-theorists-like-birthers-damage-the-brand-of-their-party/505004/45 "2009-08-03T18:49:21Z")
> [@astorian](#): > > another 26% think it’s POSSIBLE. No, 26% said they’re “not sure”. I’m not sure why you’d change the wording on that. “It’s possible” implies someone’s been thinking about it. “Not sure” means anything from “it’s possible” to “I have no clue what you’re talking about”. ---
**Author:** ![Happy\_Fun\_Ball](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/happy_fun_ball/32/17664_2.png) [@Happy\_Fun\_Ball](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Happy_Fun_Ball)\ **Post date:** [August 3, 2009, 7:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-conspiracy-theorists-like-birthers-damage-the-brand-of-their-party/505004/46 "2009-08-03T19:00:03Z")
> [@astorian](#): > > More than a third of all Democrats believe Bush knew all about the 9/11 attack before it happened, and another 26% think it’s POSSIBLE. A mere 39% believe he did not know. Thanks for this; dissapointing to say the least! I always thought the truthers were a fringe group, but after reading [this Wiki](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/9/11_opinion_polls) I find it isn’t so. What is wrong with people? Well, this brands the Democrats as much as the birthplace crap brands the Republicans, at least to my mind. ---
**Author:** ![holmes](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/e95f7d/32.png) [@holmes](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/holmes)\ **Post date:** [August 3, 2009, 9:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-conspiracy-theorists-like-birthers-damage-the-brand-of-their-party/505004/47 "2009-08-03T21:59:47Z")
[Jumped the shark?](http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/21134540/vp/32274609#32274609) ---
**Author:** ![E-Sabbath](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/e19adc/32.png) [@E-Sabbath](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/E-Sabbath)\ **Post date:** [August 3, 2009, 11:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-conspiracy-theorists-like-birthers-damage-the-brand-of-their-party/505004/48 "2009-08-03T23:07:15Z")
Dude, summarize, I don’t want to listen to her babble. ---
**Author:** ![wonky](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wonky/32/393_2.png) [@wonky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wonky)\ **Post date:** [August 3, 2009, 11:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-conspiracy-theorists-like-birthers-damage-the-brand-of-their-party/505004/49 "2009-08-03T23:13:38Z")
> [@holmes](#): > > [Jumped the shark?](http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/21134540/vp/32274609#32274609) She sounds like someone doing a fake Russian accent. So weird. ---
**Author:** ![wonky](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wonky/32/393_2.png) [@wonky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wonky)\ **Post date:** [August 3, 2009, 11:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-conspiracy-theorists-like-birthers-damage-the-brand-of-their-party/505004/50 "2009-08-03T23:14:50Z")
> [@E-Sabbath](#): > > Dude, summarize, I don’t want to listen to her babble. She just sounds really whacked and called David Schuster a Nazi. ---
**Author:** ![mswas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e99b99/32.png) [@mswas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mswas)\ **Post date:** [August 3, 2009, 11:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-conspiracy-theorists-like-birthers-damage-the-brand-of-their-party/505004/51 "2009-08-03T23:22:16Z")
> [@L. G. Butts](#): > > Thanks for this; dissapointing to say the least! I always thought the truthers were a fringe group, but after reading [this Wiki](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/9/11_opinion_polls) I find it isn’t so. What is wrong with people? Well, this brands the Democrats as much as the birthplace crap brands the Republicans, at least to my mind. Well the difference is that Democratic opinionmakers try to avoid the Truther movement, whereas Republican leaders embrace the birther movement. ---
**Author:** ![wonky](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wonky/32/393_2.png) [@wonky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wonky)\ **Post date:** [August 3, 2009, 11:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-conspiracy-theorists-like-birthers-damage-the-brand-of-their-party/505004/52 "2009-08-03T23:30:54Z")
Oh, and Schuster does something I think is very unprofessional in that interview with Orly Taitz. She got flustered and called him a Nazi. A little later, he said something like, “Let me ask you this. Is it true you refused the driver NBC sent over because his name sounds Muslim?” She appeared suprised and said no, but I think most people will come away from that thinking that she did just that. It was interviewing through innuendo, and completely uncalled for. ---
**Author:** ![Happy\_Fun\_Ball](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/happy_fun_ball/32/17664_2.png) [@Happy\_Fun\_Ball](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Happy_Fun_Ball)\ **Post date:** [August 4, 2009, 1:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-conspiracy-theorists-like-birthers-damage-the-brand-of-their-party/505004/53 "2009-08-04T01:30:18Z")
> [@mswas](#): > > Well the difference is that Democratic opinionmakers try to avoid the Truther movement, whereas Republican leaders embrace the birther movement. True that. ---
**Author:** ![gonzomax](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e8c25b/32.png) [@gonzomax](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gonzomax)\ **Post date:** [August 5, 2009, 3:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-conspiracy-theorists-like-birthers-damage-the-brand-of-their-party/505004/54 "2009-08-05T15:12:59Z")
> [@L. G. Butts](#): > > True that. And that Bachmann was re-elected ,while McKinney was booted by the Dems. ---
**Author:** ![Jenaroph](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/e8c25b/32.png) [@Jenaroph](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jenaroph)\ **Post date:** [August 5, 2009, 8:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-conspiracy-theorists-like-birthers-damage-the-brand-of-their-party/505004/55 "2009-08-05T20:44:36Z")
> [@astorian](#): > > Completely wrong. 9/11 truthers are overwhelmingly on the Left. And in the Democratic party, they’re not a mere fringe group: > > [http://www.rasmussenreports.com/public\_content/politics/current\_events/bush\_administration/22\_believe\_bush\_knew\_about\_9\_11\_attacks\_in\_advance](http://www.rasmussenreports.com/public_content/politics/current_events/bush_administration/22_believe_bush_knew_about_9_11_attacks_in_advance) > > More than a third of all Democrats believe Bush knew all about the 9/11 attack before it happened, and another 26% think it’s POSSIBLE. A mere 39% believe he did not know. > > On this subject, at least, sane Democrats are the fringe group within their party. If this includes people who by the time of that poll had heard about the ignored August 2001 memo titled “Bin Laden determined to strike in US” then it’s hardly an insane statement to say that “Bush knew the attacks were coming.” I’d say it sounds like an indignant exaggeration of “Bush should have known the attacks were coming” or “Bush knew something was coming and did nothing”. I’d like to see how the question and available answers were worded before condemning 22% of Democrats as complete fruitbats. If it was “Bush knew the WTC and Pentagon were going to be attacked with hijacked planes on 9/11 and let it happen so he could start a war” or “the Bush administration themselves organized the attacks” then yeah, that’s fruity. ---
**Author:** ![Lobohan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lobohan/32/79_2.png) [@Lobohan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lobohan)\ **Post date:** [August 6, 2009, 1:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-conspiracy-theorists-like-birthers-damage-the-brand-of-their-party/505004/56 "2009-08-06T01:26:56Z")
[This entire message board is a fraud!!!](http://kenyanbirthcertificategenerator.com/42a994a5a64b2df517c1c2454369ddd8.jpg) Heh. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Captain\_Amazing](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6de8d8/32.png) [@Captain\_Amazing](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Captain_Amazing)\ **Post date:** [August 6, 2009, 2:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-conspiracy-theorists-like-birthers-damage-the-brand-of-their-party/505004/57 "2009-08-06T02:26:29Z")
> [@mswas](#): > > Well the difference is that Democratic opinionmakers try to avoid the Truther movement, whereas Republican leaders embrace the birther movement. I don’t think that’s true. Michael Steele has said he has no doubts that Obama is a natural born citizen. John Boehner has said he has no doubt Obama was born in Hawaii. I don’t think you can say the Republican leadership has embraced the idea. ---
**Author:** ![gonzomax](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e8c25b/32.png) [@gonzomax](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gonzomax)\ **Post date:** [August 6, 2009, 2:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-conspiracy-theorists-like-birthers-damage-the-brand-of-their-party/505004/58 "2009-08-06T02:28:08Z")
[http://www.historycommons.org/project.jsp?project=911\_project](http://www.historycommons.org/project.jsp?project=911_project) It was a lot more than the memo Bush lied about receiving. The 911 Timeline is a compilation of the news stories and government reports that the Bush admin, was given. They just ignored everything. ---
**Author:** ![rock\_party](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e19b73/32.png) [@rock\_party](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rock_party)\ **Post date:** [August 6, 2009, 3:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-conspiracy-theorists-like-birthers-damage-the-brand-of-their-party/505004/59 "2009-08-06T03:04:49Z")
If the 9/11 whacko’s are of the “Cheney is an oil sucking vampire” ilk, then yeah, probably on the left. If the 9/11 whacko’s are of the “anti semite/jews all called in sick that day” then they’re on the right. Big time. Everyone knows that jews control media and hollywood so they can push their librul agenda down our throats. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Second\_Stone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/bbe5ce/32.png) [@The\_Second\_Stone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Second_Stone)\ **Post date:** [August 6, 2009, 4:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-conspiracy-theorists-like-birthers-damage-the-brand-of-their-party/505004/60 "2009-08-06T04:19:46Z")
It is definitely damaging because it is so completely and utterly preposterous that it makes anyone who espouses it look like a Scientologist giving psychiatric advice. I keep wondering what insane and idiotic plan the Republicans can come up with to hurt their party in a way that will top the last, and I thought renominating Bush in 04 was it. Then I thought torture and detentions would be untoppable, then I thought McCain tacking right would be untoppable, then I thought Palin would untoppable, but then she kept topping herself and now the birther thing looks to be the weirdest. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-conspiracy-theorists-like-birthers-damage-the-brand-of-their-party/505004.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-conspiracy-theorists-like-birthers-damage-the-brand-of-their-party/505004.md?page=4)