# do/could a submarine relly breach the surface like this? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [February 25, 2014, 7:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-could-a-submarine-relly-breach-the-surface-like-this/682242 "2014-02-25T19:00:37Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Hermitian](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hermitian/32/470_2.png) [@Hermitian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hermitian)\ **Post date:** [February 26, 2014, 3:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-could-a-submarine-relly-breach-the-surface-like-this/682242/21 "2014-02-26T15:57:57Z")
> [@robby](#): > > Some clarification/nitpicks here: > > The top of the hull of a submarine is not slippery. There is a section of non-skid at the top of the hull so that crewmembers don’t slip off when walking around topside when in port, or during underway operations when leaving or returning to port. And SSBN’s have a decent sized section of their hull that is [flat on top](http://images.military.com/media/news/equipment/boomer-sub-428x285-ts412.jpg). It is called the turtleback. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [February 26, 2014, 5:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-could-a-submarine-relly-breach-the-surface-like-this/682242/22 "2014-02-26T17:41:57Z")
Plus, there are subs like the [Typhoon/Akula class](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Typhoon-class_submarine) which are flat all the way down. ---
**Author:** ![Rhythmdvl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/85f322/32.png) [@Rhythmdvl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rhythmdvl)\ **Post date:** [February 28, 2014, 4:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-could-a-submarine-relly-breach-the-surface-like-this/682242/23 "2014-02-28T04:09:32Z")
> [@Hermitian](#): > > And SSBN’s have a decent sized section of their hull that is [flat on top](http://images.military.com/media/news/equipment/boomer-sub-428x285-ts412.jpg). \*\* It is called the turtleback.\*\* > [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > Plus, there are subs like the [Typhoon/Akula class](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Typhoon-class_submarine) which **are flat all the way down**. It’s turtlebacks all the way down. ---
**Author:** ![AriesGal79](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/b4bc9f/32.png) [@AriesGal79](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AriesGal79)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2017, 7:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-could-a-submarine-relly-breach-the-surface-like-this/682242/24 "2017-04-13T19:10:06Z")
so the title says it all. I’ve seen the new fate of the furious trailer several times & it shows a submarine bursting up through ice & knocking several vehicles into the air. is it possible for a submarine to really do that? all the videos I’ve found with google don’t show such a rapid surfacing. I know its a movie but it got me wondering if it is possible for any submarines to really do that? thanks! P.S: Sorry if this should be in another forum. it IS about submarines so I figured it would fit here. Later! ---
**Author:** ![Corry\_El](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ecae2f/32.png) [@Corry\_El](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Corry_El)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2017, 7:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-could-a-submarine-relly-breach-the-surface-like-this/682242/25 "2017-04-13T19:50:14Z")
> [@kaylasdad99](#): > > Submarines (well, U.S. Navy nuclear submarines) don’t have keels. Open source midship section drawings of US nuclear subs are hard to come by, but there must be internal longitudinal strength members in addition to the (basically) circular transverse frames, and it stands to reason there is one of them on the bottom centerline like almost any other ship, and if so that’s still by convention called a keel. Modern US nuclear subs don’t have external keels that serve as hydrodynamic surfaces as for a sailing vessel or to hold permanent ballast as some earlier subs did, true. But neither do the overwhelmingly majority of steel surface ships nowadays. Merchant ships now are virtually always flat bottomed. But the internal centerline longitudinal member is still called the keel. Not a super key point relative to the question, and I agree with another post noting that ‘keel laying’ nowadays just means when the first prefabricated module of whatever type of vessel is placed in the building dock (or rarely nowadays an inclined launching way) where the vessel is going to be erected. And back on original question, there as so many pictures and videos of submarines practicing emergency surfacing at startling angles, it’s obviously possible. If it were just a few and recent one might wonder if it was photoshop, but similar pictures have been in authoritative books about subs since long before there was photoshop or the internet. ---
**Author:** ![Leo\_Bloom](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/leo_bloom/32/10377_2.png) [@Leo\_Bloom](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Leo_Bloom)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2017, 9:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-could-a-submarine-relly-breach-the-surface-like-this/682242/26 "2017-04-13T21:47:09Z")
Hi **AriesGal79**. Welcome to SD. ---
**Author:** ![Tim\_T-Bonham.net](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/46a35a/32.png) [@Tim\_T-Bonham.net](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tim_T-Bonham.net)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2017, 11:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-could-a-submarine-relly-breach-the-surface-like-this/682242/27 "2017-04-13T23:02:33Z")
> [@AriesGal79](#): > > so the title says it all. I’ve seen the new fate of the furious trailer several times & it shows a submarine bursting up through ice & knocking several vehicles into the air. is it possible for a submarine to really do that? all the videos I’ve found with google don’t show such a rapid surfacing. I know its a movie but it got me wondering if it is possible for any submarines to really do that? thanks! See here for a[US submarine surfacing through ice.](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JFalY7wXm-I) But it isn’t ‘bursting’. I expect that would cause some damage. This video shows the submarine coming up, so presumably it was a planned location, with someone there to meet them and film it. So they likely would have chosen a location of comparatively thin ice. (I think their instruments allow them to find such places while submerged.) The ice looks to be only a meter or so thick in that video. And it shows the crew using a chain saw on the ice to get down to open a hatch. So the sub didn’t really come entirely through the ice – it was effectively just floating underneat the ice, with only the sail & top deck above water. ---
**Author:** ![LSLGuy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lslguy/32/5813_2.png) [@LSLGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LSLGuy)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2017, 1:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-could-a-submarine-relly-breach-the-surface-like-this/682242/28 "2017-04-14T01:07:20Z")
Our resident submariner has explained through-ice surfacing a time or two. It’s done gently to avoid damaging the sub. After all, ice is a natural material and far from homogenous. The only sure way to discover the strength of any given spot is by pushing on it and seeing if it breaks before or after your submarine does. Having said that, it might well be stupid reckless to emergency blow up through sea ice. But if the sub was lucky enough that the ice was thin enough the sub would be fine. Whether that same ice would be thick enough to support a car or truck is a different question. Sea ice in general is a lot more broken and jumbled and confused than is the flat smooth lake ice folks often drive vehicles over. ---
**Author:** ![snfaulkner](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snfaulkner/32/433_2.png) [@snfaulkner](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/snfaulkner)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2017, 1:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-could-a-submarine-relly-breach-the-surface-like-this/682242/29 "2017-04-14T01:10:59Z")
Let’s for a minute forget about the ice. Can a sub toss cars like is seen in that stupid movie’s trailer? ---
**Author:** ![AK84](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/85e7bf/32.png) [@AK84](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AK84)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2017, 3:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-could-a-submarine-relly-breach-the-surface-like-this/682242/30 "2017-04-14T03:19:31Z")
> [@LSLGuy](#): > > Our resident submariner has explained through-ice surfacing a time or two. It’s done gently to avoid damaging the sub. After all, ice is a natural material and far from homogenous. The only sure way to discover the strength of any given spot is by pushing on it and seeing if it breaks before or after your submarine does. > > Having said that, it might well be stupid reckless to emergency blow up through sea ice. But if the sub was lucky enough that the ice was thin enough the sub would be fine. > > Whether that same ice would be thick enough to support a car or truck is a different question. Sea ice in general is a lot more broken and jumbled and confused than is the flat smooth lake ice folks often drive vehicles over. IIRC, the [Soviet Typhoon class](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Typhoon-class_submarine) (famously seen in _The Hunt for Red October_) could break through the ice quickly. [Here is an article](http://www.popularmechanics.com/military/weapons/a23184/russian-submarine-launched-slbm/) and video of such a breakthrough in 1996. ---
**Author:** ![robby](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/robby/32/11048_2.png) [@robby](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/robby)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2017, 11:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-could-a-submarine-relly-breach-the-surface-like-this/682242/31 "2017-04-15T23:04:59Z")
> [@snfaulkner](#): > > Let’s for a minute forget about the ice. Can a sub toss cars like is seen in that stupid movie’s trailer? No. > [@AK84](#): > > IIRC, the [Soviet Typhoon class](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Typhoon-class_submarine) (famously seen in _The Hunt for Red October_) could break through the ice quickly. > > [Here is an article](http://www.popularmechanics.com/military/weapons/a23184/russian-submarine-launched-slbm/) and video of such a breakthrough in 1996. In the linked video, the _Typhoon_-class sub doesn’t appear to surface and break through the ice particularly quickly… ---
**Author:** ![Tranquilis](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tranquilis/32/3639_2.png) [@Tranquilis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tranquilis)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2017, 1:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-could-a-submarine-relly-breach-the-surface-like-this/682242/32 "2017-04-16T01:54:56Z")
Been there, done that. Hitting the “Chicken Switches” is an E-Ticket ride. 😃 > [@robby](#): > > No. > > In the linked video, the _Typhoon_-class sub doesn’t appear to surface and break through the ice particularly quickly… They don’t need to. Better to take it easy when practicing, so as not to damage important things which have to move - Like Mast Heads, hatches, and such. ---
**Author:** ![aruvqan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aruvqan/32/2891_2.png) [@aruvqan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aruvqan)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2017, 12:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-could-a-submarine-relly-breach-the-surface-like-this/682242/33 "2017-04-16T12:35:58Z")
> [@robby](#): > > An emergency blow does not cause any damage to the hull (assuming the sub ensures the area is clear and doesn’t run into anything on the surface). (Unfortunately, this was not the case in [one infamous instance](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ehime_Maru_and_USS_Greeneville_collision).) We used to do them quarterly for training purposes and to ensure the equipment was working properly. And dependents cruises, can’t forget those =) Though [angles and dangles](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RyL40Z89g4Q) was fun too . [though I admit I used to go but not do the normal dependent crap but head to machinery and hang with mrAru and the rest of our friends.] ---
**Author:** ![robby](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/robby/32/11048_2.png) [@robby](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/robby)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2017, 2:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-could-a-submarine-relly-breach-the-surface-like-this/682242/34 "2017-04-17T02:46:18Z")
> [@Tranquilis](#): > > Been there, done that. Hitting the “Chicken Switches” is an E-Ticket ride. 😃 Agreed…especially the first time. > [@Tranquilis](#): > > They don’t need to. Better to take it easy when practicing, so as not to damage important things which have to move - Like Mast Heads, hatches, and such. Right, I was responding to **AK84** ’s comment that they could. ---
**Author:** ![AK84](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/85e7bf/32.png) [@AK84](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AK84)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2017, 3:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-could-a-submarine-relly-breach-the-surface-like-this/682242/35 "2017-04-17T15:30:21Z")
**robby** , I bow to your expertise of submarine operations. :). Just repeating what I read about the _Typhoons_. Incidentally how does it feel when the boat hits the ice? Does it shake, wat kind of noises do you hear? Did you see curious Polar Bears like the Russkies in the video? ---
**Author:** ![aruvqan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aruvqan/32/2891_2.png) [@aruvqan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aruvqan)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2017, 3:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-could-a-submarine-relly-breach-the-surface-like-this/682242/36 "2017-04-17T15:31:08Z")
Actually I would love to plug the [Sub museum](http://www.ussnautilus.org/) in Groton CT - you can actually tour the USS Nautilus, the first US nuke boat … and there are assorted interesting static displays and interesting bits about submarine history. ---
**Author:** ![SCAdian](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/scadian/32/3292_2.png) [@SCAdian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SCAdian)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2017, 10:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-could-a-submarine-relly-breach-the-surface-like-this/682242/37 "2017-04-17T22:56:01Z")
> [@Tranquilis](#): > > Been there, done that. Hitting the “Chicken Switches” is an E-Ticket ride. 😃 > [@robby](#): > > Agreed…especially the first time. That was one ride I never tired of. > [@aruvqan](#): > > Actually I would love to plug the [Sub museum](http://www.ussnautilus.org/) in Groton CT - you can actually tour the USS Nautilus, the first US nuke boat … and there are assorted interesting static displays and interesting bits about submarine history. I’ll second that. ---
**Author:** ![Tranquilis](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tranquilis/32/3639_2.png) [@Tranquilis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tranquilis)\ **Post date:** [April 18, 2017, 2:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-could-a-submarine-relly-breach-the-surface-like-this/682242/38 "2017-04-18T02:32:57Z")
> [@SCAdian](#): > > That was one ride I never tired of. Especially if you can swing it so that you’re in the Bow Compartment. Closest thing to a rollercoaster you’re going to get in a naval vessel, absent a truly stupendous storm. ---
**Author:** ![robby](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/robby/32/11048_2.png) [@robby](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/robby)\ **Post date:** [April 18, 2017, 12:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-could-a-submarine-relly-breach-the-surface-like-this/682242/39 "2017-04-18T12:24:15Z")
> [@AK84](#): > > **robby** , I bow to your expertise of submarine operations. :). Just repeating what I read about the _Typhoons_. Incidentally how does it feel when the boat hits the ice? Does it shake, wat kind of noises do you hear? Did you see curious Polar Bears like the Russkies in the video? As I recall, the act of breaking through the ice was much more anticlimactic that I expected. There were a few noises, but nothing particularly notable. We never saw any polar bears, but did maintain a polar bear watch up in the sail (i.e. conning tower) of our boat when people were out and about on the ice. This consisted of two lookouts, one of whom was armed with an M16 rifle. We were all pretty sure that if a polar bear did show up, the M16 would be more likely than not to just piss off the bear… 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Tranquilis](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tranquilis/32/3639_2.png) [@Tranquilis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tranquilis)\ **Post date:** [April 18, 2017, 1:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-could-a-submarine-relly-breach-the-surface-like-this/682242/40 "2017-04-18T13:00:39Z")
> [@robby](#): > > As I recall, the act of breaking through the ice was much more anticlimactic that I expected. There were a few noises, but nothing particularly notable. Frankly, there was more drama in the evolution pre-briefings and checklists. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-could-a-submarine-relly-breach-the-surface-like-this/682242.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-could-a-submarine-relly-breach-the-surface-like-this/682242.md?page=3)