# Do crime rates go down in counties that require gun ownership? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [June 10, 2003, 4:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-crime-rates-go-down-in-counties-that-require-gun-ownership/180784 "2003-06-10T04:12:45Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 15\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Lear\_s\_fool](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/df788c/32.png) [@Lear\_s\_fool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lear_s_fool)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2003, 4:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-crime-rates-go-down-in-counties-that-require-gun-ownership/180784/1 "2003-06-10T04:12:45Z")
Often when the topic of gun control comes up in conversation someone will point out that in a county in Florida that required that to by a home you had to buy a gun, and that the crime dropped 200%. Now I’ve hear several variations of the story like everyone over the age of 18 being required in the county to carry a counseled weapon or a family being required of have gun of for all it’s members, and the percentage of the drop in crime seems to get bigger every time I hear it. I would want to know if there is a documented case of any state, county, or, city passing a law requiring gun ownership and what the law’s in pact on crime was. ---
**Author:** ![Q.E.D](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/51bf81/32.png) [@Q.E.D](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Q.E.D)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2003, 4:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-crime-rates-go-down-in-counties-that-require-gun-ownership/180784/2 "2003-06-10T04:17:41Z")
I don’t know of _any_ locale in the US that requires gun ownership in order to purchase land. My BS detector is going wild here. ---
**Author:** ![Padeye](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/a9a28c/32.png) [@Padeye](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Padeye)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2003, 4:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-crime-rates-go-down-in-counties-that-require-gun-ownership/180784/3 "2003-06-10T04:19:58Z")
I think you’ll find that the few places that have done this are small towns so the crime rate is probably low to begin with. In any event it may be too small of a population to be statistically meaningful. You may have better luck looking at states that adopted a concealed carry law. Perlously close to a GD topic but good luck in finding meaningful data. ---
**Author:** ![december](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/838e76/32.png) [@december](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/december)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2003, 4:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-crime-rates-go-down-in-counties-that-require-gun-ownership/180784/4 "2003-06-10T04:50:41Z")
See [http://www.godspath.com/News/Pages/mandatory\_gun\_law.htm](http://www.godspath.com/News/Pages/mandatory_gun_law.htm) ---
**Author:** ![Q.E.D](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/51bf81/32.png) [@Q.E.D](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Q.E.D)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2003, 4:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-crime-rates-go-down-in-counties-that-require-gun-ownership/180784/5 "2003-06-10T04:52:13Z")
Oh yeah, there’s a reliable cite. :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![Berkut](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/a88e57/32.png) [@Berkut](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Berkut)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2003, 6:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-crime-rates-go-down-in-counties-that-require-gun-ownership/180784/6 "2003-06-10T06:46:23Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Q.E.D. \* > \*\*I don’t know of _any_ locale in the US that requires gun ownership in order to purchase land. My BS detector is going wild here. \*\* I didn’t see the OP mention anything about purchasing land. He is probably thinking of the law in Kennesaw, GA, requiring the head of the household to maintain a firearm. From [http://www.kennesaw.ga.us/codeofordinances.aspx](http://www.kennesaw.ga.us/codeofordinances.aspx) > [@](#): > > Sec. 34-1 Heads of households to maintain firearms. > (a) In order to provide for the emergency management of the City, and further in order to provide for and protect the safety, security and general welfare of the city and its inhabitants, every head of household residing in the City limits is required to maintain a firearm, together with ammunition therefore. > (b) Exempt from the effect of this section are those heads of households who suffer a physical or mental disability, which would prohibit them from using such a firearm. Further exempt from the effect of this section are those heads of households who are paupers or who conscientiously oppose maintaining firearms as a result of beliefs or religious doctrine, or persons convicted of a felony. You may view their crime statistics here: [http://www.kennesaw.ga.us/PoliceDepartment\_CrimeStatistics.aspx](http://www.kennesaw.ga.us/PoliceDepartment_CrimeStatistics.aspx) In part, it says: > [@](#): > > FBI Uniform Crime Report (UCR) statistics for the year 1998 based on incidents of crime per 100,000 population indicate: > > Overall Crime for the City of Kennesaw is approx. half the state and national rates. > > Burglary incidents are approx. half the state and national rates. > > Violent Crime incidents are approx. four times less than the state and national rates. I assume the FBI is a reliable cite. ---
**Author:** ![Mr\_Sherbet](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ad7895/32.png) [@Mr\_Sherbet](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr_Sherbet)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2003, 6:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-crime-rates-go-down-in-counties-that-require-gun-ownership/180784/7 "2003-06-10T06:49:58Z")
How can crime drop 200%? If crime drops 100%, there is no more crime. Do people start doing good deeds for each other after that? ---
**Author:** ![Blake](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/a9a28c/32.png) [@Blake](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Blake)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2003, 6:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-crime-rates-go-down-in-counties-that-require-gun-ownership/180784/8 "2003-06-10T06:52:56Z")
How do those figures compare to Overall Crime, Burglary incidents and Violent Crime incidents for the state of Georgia as a whole? For comparale size cities in the Geogia? I would assume that any small city would be below the national average rates. ---
**Author:** ![mmmiiikkkeee](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/edb3f5/32.png) [@mmmiiikkkeee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mmmiiikkkeee)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2003, 8:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-crime-rates-go-down-in-counties-that-require-gun-ownership/180784/9 "2003-06-10T08:04:24Z")
Heh, that’s what I was thinking **Mr Sherbet** … it’s impossible for the crime rate to drop \>100%. It can _rise_ any multiple of 100%, but not _drop_ that much… ---
**Author:** ![interface2x](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/c0e974/32.png) [@interface2x](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/interface2x)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2003, 12:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-crime-rates-go-down-in-counties-that-require-gun-ownership/180784/10 "2003-06-10T12:45:52Z")
Maybe crime was completely eliminated and helping old ladies cross the street skyrocketed. Taking those two together had to count fo _something_. (1,000 posts and still sayin’ nothing!) ---
**Author:** ![Joey\_P](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/919ad9/32.png) [@Joey\_P](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Joey_P)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2003, 12:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-crime-rates-go-down-in-counties-that-require-gun-ownership/180784/11 "2003-06-10T12:47:20Z")
Maybe they just have it worded oddly, if crime has been on the rise, it could, say, drop 200% of what it was in 1990 (all though that means it’s atleast doubled since then. Of course is’t it something like 117% of all statistics are made up on the spot? ---
**Author:** ![Whack-a-Mole](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/whack-a-mole/32/141_2.png) [@Whack-a-Mole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Whack-a-Mole)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2003, 1:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-crime-rates-go-down-in-counties-that-require-gun-ownership/180784/12 "2003-06-10T13:09:32Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Joey G \* > I didn’t see the OP mention anything about purchasing land. He is probably thinking of the law in Kennesaw, GA, requiring the head of the household to maintain a firearm. > > From [http://www.kennesaw.ga.us/codeofordinances.aspx](http://www.kennesaw.ga.us/codeofordinances.aspx) > You may view their crime statistics here: [http://www.kennesaw.ga.us/PoliceDepartment\_CrimeStatistics.aspx](http://www.kennesaw.ga.us/PoliceDepartment_CrimeStatistics.aspx) Sorry for the hijack but is it just me or is there something incredibly wrong with this law? Forget issues of guns…I’m upset about the state forcing me to buy anything! Why stop with guns and let’s give the economy a boost! “You must own a car, a lawnmower, two TVs, a bass boat…” ---
**Author:** ![Whack-a-Mole](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/whack-a-mole/32/141_2.png) [@Whack-a-Mole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Whack-a-Mole)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2003, 1:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-crime-rates-go-down-in-counties-that-require-gun-ownership/180784/13 "2003-06-10T13:11:49Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Whack-a-Mole \* > **Forget issues of guns…I’m upset about the state forcing me to buy anything!** I probably should have said “government” rather than “state”. Whether the government is local, county, state or federal shouldn’t matter in my view. ---
**Author:** ![bobkitty](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/c67d28/32.png) [@bobkitty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bobkitty)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2003, 1:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-crime-rates-go-down-in-counties-that-require-gun-ownership/180784/14 "2003-06-10T13:54:45Z")
I know the guy who was at the head of the movement to pass that law in Georgia. [sub]don’t even get me STARTED on what I think of him personally…[/sub] There were studies done at the time that showed not only did the crime rate in Kennesaw drop, but crime in the surrounding towns rose- basically all the criminals got freaked out at the thought of never knowing who was carrying a gun, and decided pickings were better over the city line. However, I seem to recall that this was a temporary change, and that once the publicity died down the crime rates returned to their original proportions. Let me do some digging… I’ll be back as soon as I can. ---
**Author:** ![bobkitty](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/c67d28/32.png) [@bobkitty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bobkitty)\ **Post date:** [June 14, 2003, 5:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-crime-rates-go-down-in-counties-that-require-gun-ownership/180784/15 "2003-06-14T17:23:38Z")
So it took a little longer than I thought. 🙂 [Here](http://www.mindspring.com/~robertcjones/khs/kennesaw20th/kennesaw20th.htm) is the best info I could find… the site for the Kennesaw Historical society. In part: > [@](#): > > Kennesaw rocked the world when on May 1, 1982, the Kennesaw City Council unanimously passed a law requiring all heads of households to maintain a firearm and ammunition. The law was passed partly in response to a law passed in Morton Grove, Illinois (June, 1981) banning private possession of handguns. Since passage of the law, the burglary rate in Kennesaw has gone down significantly, while the rate in Morton Grove has gone up. > > “Before the law was passed we had 11 burglaries per 1000 in population. As of 1992 we had 2.7 burglaries per 1000 population. Over the years, it may fluctuate 1% higher, or 1 or 2% lower, but its something that’s stayed in line from '83 all the way up to today.” (Kennesaw Police Chief Dwaine Wilson, 1994) > > As of 2000, the burglary rate in Kennesaw was even lower – making it one of the safest cities of its size in the United States. It is all the more astonishing given that Kennesaw has quadrupled in size since passage of the gun law: > > “With the fast growth of the population, and the location of the city in relation to I-75 and 41 coming right through town, all indications are that the crime rate should have gone up. And instead it has gone down a tremendous amount.” (Former Mayor J.O. Stephenson, a city councilman when the gun law was passed) > > … The population grew from 5,095 in 1980 to over 21,000 today. The author is apparently quoting from the following two sources: “The Law Heard ‘Round the World: An Examination of the Kennesaw Gun Law and its Effect on the Community, Robert Jones, Kennesaw Historical Society, 1994” and “City of Kennesaw Police Department Yearly Statistics, 1981 - 1993.” Hope this helps a little.