# Do democrats want illegal alien votes? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [December 14, 2011, 5:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-democrats-want-illegal-alien-votes/606195 "2011-12-14T17:34:54Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Lord\_Feldon](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lord_feldon/32/341_2.png) [@Lord\_Feldon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lord_Feldon)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2011, 2:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-democrats-want-illegal-alien-votes/606195/41 "2011-12-15T02:57:28Z")
> [@Acsenray](#): > > The same is true, for example, of Ohio state judges – even though the ballot won’t list a party affiliation, in most races, the major parties endorse candidates. The candidates are also explicitly partisan in that they’re selected in party primaries. The ballot not listing a party affiliation is the _only_ way that the races are nonpartisan. (That’s why I supported the abortive attempt last year to reinstate the party label on the general election ballot. I don’t want the system to work that way, but I also don’t think ballots should lie to voters.) ---
**Author:** ![Polycarp](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/82dd89/32.png) [@Polycarp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Polycarp)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2011, 3:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-democrats-want-illegal-alien-votes/606195/42 "2011-12-15T03:09:57Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > That varies from state to state. Many cities and counties have nonpartisan elections. Where I live, Tampa city elections are nonpartisan but Hillsborough County elections are partisan. But all state legislatures are partisan. Except Nebraska’s, IIRC. ---
**Author:** ![Buchanan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/edb3f5/32.png) [@Buchanan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Buchanan)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2011, 3:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-democrats-want-illegal-alien-votes/606195/43 "2011-12-15T03:22:30Z")
> [@md2000](#): > > Unless their employers(citizens) are violating the law, they pay income tax. They pay sales taxes. They or their landlords pay property taxes. Why shouldn’t they vote? Employers need not be citizens. Also - all illegal aliens do not engage as full-time, W2 employees for which employers withhold state + fed income taxes, FICA, and FUTA. Of course I have no figures, but based on my personal experience I believe many work (a) as 1099 contractors - thereby keeping tax paying responsibility with the criminal alien rather than shifting it to the employer, or (b) fully under-the-table without paying any income, unemployment, social security, or medicare taxes. I suppose they could still pay excise taxes, though. ---
**Author:** ![Hyperelastic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/a3d4f5/32.png) [@Hyperelastic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hyperelastic)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2011, 4:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-democrats-want-illegal-alien-votes/606195/44 "2011-12-15T04:11:11Z")
The Democrats would be in favor of cats and dogs voting if they thought they would vote Democratic, and likewise for the Republicans. On edit, obviously dogs would vote (D) and cats would vote ®. ---
**Author:** ![Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/f04885/32.png) [@Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Qin_Shi_Huangdi)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2011, 5:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-democrats-want-illegal-alien-votes/606195/45 "2011-12-15T05:11:55Z")
> [@miss\_elizabeth](#): > > The bulk of the population of undocumented immigrants is Hispanic, and they tend to be quite conservative. If they are now more predisposed to vote for the Democrat **ic** Party it’s directly because of the actions of the Republican Party. Personally, as a person who generally votes Democratic, I find this pretty funny. I would never, ever be in favor of this anti-immigrant garbage, even if the immigrant population did vote Republican, but the fact that the Republicans are taking a group of people who probably would have been on their side, and are doing everything in their power to change that… well, that’s funny. So you are implying Hispanics like to vote for people who would prefer not to defend the borders? :dubious: ---
**Author:** ![Frank](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Frank](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frank)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2011, 5:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-democrats-want-illegal-alien-votes/606195/46 "2011-12-15T05:20:43Z")
> [@Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](#): > > So you are implying Hispanics like to vote for people who would prefer not to defend the borders? :dubious: As posted above, the minimum percentage of the Hispanic vote for a Democratic presidential candidate since 1976 is 55% for Kerry. Draw you own conclusions, or ask someone else to draw them for you, whichever you’re more comfortable with. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2011, 11:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-democrats-want-illegal-alien-votes/606195/47 "2011-12-15T11:43:57Z")
> [@Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](#): > > So you are implying Hispanics like to vote for people who would prefer not to defend the borders? :dubious: The Republicans are defending the borders? I know that’s what they _say_ they’re doing, but how effective are they at it, really? ---
**Author:** ![LonesomePolecat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/a88e57/32.png) [@LonesomePolecat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LonesomePolecat)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2011, 2:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-democrats-want-illegal-alien-votes/606195/48 "2011-12-15T14:19:28Z")
> [@Bryan\_Ekers](#): > > 1. Someone who is not a citizen casts a vote. > 2. Someone who is a citizen is prevented from casting a vote. 1. Someone who is a citizen has his legal vote nullified by an illegal vote cast by a non-citizen. Do people who make a big deal about (2) ever mention (3)? ---
**Author:** ![LonesomePolecat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/a88e57/32.png) [@LonesomePolecat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LonesomePolecat)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2011, 2:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-democrats-want-illegal-alien-votes/606195/49 "2011-12-15T14:24:44Z")
> [@md2000](#): > > As far as legal non-citizens voting… unless this is a special odd case, what are the odds there are enough resident alients to make a difference? Florida. November, 2000. It was in all the papers, remember? A few hundred votes could have put Gore in the White House. Obviously a few hundred illegal votes could have a serious impact on an election, especially local ones where no more than a few thousand votes may be cast. ---
**Author:** ![Lightnin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lightnin/32/180_2.png) [@Lightnin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lightnin)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2011, 2:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-democrats-want-illegal-alien-votes/606195/50 "2011-12-15T14:55:09Z")
> [@LonesomePolecat](#): > > 1. Someone who is a citizen has his legal vote nullified by an illegal vote cast by a non-citizen. > > Do people who make a big deal about (2) ever mention (3)? Oooh, can I play? 1. Someone who is a citizen has his legal vote effectively \*doubled \*by an illegal vote cast by a non-citizen. Do people who make a big deal about (3) ever mention (4)? ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2011, 3:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-democrats-want-illegal-alien-votes/606195/51 "2011-12-15T15:12:06Z")
> [@IntelliQ](#): > > \*\*Do democrats want illegal alien votes? \*\* No, Democrats want alien votes, period. Watch next session, there will be a bill to provide a silicon option in all federal food-service facilities. ---
**Author:** ![LonesomePolecat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/a88e57/32.png) [@LonesomePolecat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LonesomePolecat)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2011, 3:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-democrats-want-illegal-alien-votes/606195/52 "2011-12-15T15:14:11Z")
> [@Bryan\_Ekers](#): > > The Republicans are defending the borders? I know that’s what they _say_ they’re doing, but how effective are they at it, really? Not very. Their hearts aren’t really in it. You see, the Republicans want cheap labor, and the Democrats expect to build a power base in the immigrant population. This is why almost no one in either party cares much about controlling immigration. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2011, 3:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-democrats-want-illegal-alien-votes/606195/53 "2011-12-15T15:14:36Z")
> [@LonesomePolecat](#): > > Florida. November, 2000. It was in all the papers, remember? A few hundred votes could have put Gore in the White House. Obviously a few hundred illegal votes could have a serious impact on an election, especially local ones where no more than a few thousand votes may be cast. Wasn’t it the case that many more than a few hundred _legal_ voters (indeed [“tens of thousands”](http://www.wsws.org/articles/2001/apr2001/flor-a09.shtml)) were being turned away on specious grounds in that state during that election? Their potential “impact” on the election is far greater than the “few hundred” that seems to concern you. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2011, 3:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-democrats-want-illegal-alien-votes/606195/54 "2011-12-15T15:19:17Z")
Here’s a [somewhat less communist](http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=88019891) cite, incidentally. ---
**Author:** ![LonesomePolecat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/a88e57/32.png) [@LonesomePolecat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LonesomePolecat)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2011, 3:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-democrats-want-illegal-alien-votes/606195/55 "2011-12-15T15:24:39Z")
> [@Lightnin](#): > > Oooh, can I play? > > 1. Someone who is a citizen has his legal vote effectively \*doubled \*by an illegal vote cast by a non-citizen. > > Do people who make a big deal about (3) ever mention (4)? Seriously, you see no problem with illegal votes nullifying legal ones? Here’s a clue: Mockery is not an acceptable substitute for actually having a point. ---
**Author:** ![LonesomePolecat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/a88e57/32.png) [@LonesomePolecat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LonesomePolecat)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2011, 3:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-democrats-want-illegal-alien-votes/606195/56 "2011-12-15T15:37:04Z")
> [@Bryan\_Ekers](#): > > Wasn’t it the case that many more than a few hundred _legal_ voters (indeed [“tens of thousands”](http://www.wsws.org/articles/2001/apr2001/flor-a09.shtml)) were being turned away on specious grounds in that state during that election? Their potential “impact” on the election is far greater than the “few hundred” that seems to concern you. That was an election in which Democrats tried to prevent absentee ballots from being counted, because many of those ballots would be cast by military personnel more likely to vote Republican than Democrat. They tried as well to limit the recounts to a handful of counties which were heavily Democratic, and they tried to throw out ballots because the format was “confusing” and the persons casting the ballots obviously didn’t mean to vote that way. Even sillier than that, the Dems used chad as an excuse to call ballots into question. They also kept demanding recount after recount, a tactic which they later successfully used to steal a senate seat for Al Franken. Please, save your moral indignation for someone dumb enough to be impressed by it. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2011, 3:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-democrats-want-illegal-alien-votes/606195/57 "2011-12-15T15:37:11Z")
How is being outvoted a “nullification”? Wouldn’t that be true of _anyone_ who votes in a manner different from you, whether they do so legally or not? For that matter, are _you_ nullifying _them_? And as Lightnin’ points out, the illegal vote may be “nullifying” one legal voter’s impact but enhancing another’s. You don’t really have the necessary information to make this a compelling point. I’ll try rephrasing my original premise: what is more offensive to you - that some illegal might get a chance to vote or that you might be prevented from legally voting? Would you give up your right to vote to prevent an illegal from voting (though of course, you’ve no way of knowing _how_ the illegal plans to vote)? ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2011, 3:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-democrats-want-illegal-alien-votes/606195/58 "2011-12-15T15:46:06Z")
> [@LonesomePolecat](#): > > That was an election in which Democrats tried to prevent absentee ballots from being counted, because many of those ballots would be cast by military personnel more likely to vote Republican than Democrat. They tried as well to limit the recounts to a handful of counties which were heavily Democratic, and they tried to throw out ballots because the format was “confusing” and the persons casting the ballots obviously didn’t mean to vote that way. Even sillier than that, the Dems used chad as an excuse to call ballots into question. They also kept demanding recount after recount, a tactic which they later successfully used to steal a senate seat for Al Franken. Please, save your moral indignation for someone dumb enough to be impressed by it. So you admit that legal voters were being denied and that this is unacceptable. Good, I consider my case proven. ---
**Author:** ![LonesomePolecat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/a88e57/32.png) [@LonesomePolecat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LonesomePolecat)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2011, 3:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-democrats-want-illegal-alien-votes/606195/59 "2011-12-15T15:53:30Z")
> [@Bryan\_Ekers](#): > > So you admit that legal voters were being denied and that this is unacceptable. Good, I consider my case proven. I certainly admit the Democrats were certainly working hard to deny citizens their votes. And no, your case isn’t proven. It was still a close call in which a few hundred votes would have made a difference. A few thousand votes would have given the presidency to Nixon instead of Kennedy. State and local elections are often decided by a handful of votes. If you’re trying to make the case that illegal votes somehow don’t really matter, you’ve failed miserably. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2011, 4:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-democrats-want-illegal-alien-votes/606195/60 "2011-12-15T16:08:43Z")
> [@LonesomePolecat](#): > > I certainly admit the Democrats were certainly working hard to deny citizens their votes. Well, Republicans have done this also, so it’s something of a tie. Fact is, it doesn’t really matter which party might benefit from illegals voting - the impact is trivial compared to efforts by either party to block legal voters who might support the other team. > [@](#): > > State and local elections are often decided by a handful of votes. So? > [@](#): > > If you’re trying to make the case that illegal votes somehow don’t really matter, you’ve failed miserably. Oh, that case is made, wrapped, and shipped out. My straightforward point is that an effort to block illegals is going to also block legals, and though the Republicans are currently trying for the political gain of trumpeting how illegals casting a vote is such an affront, their real strategy of trying to knock out legal voters who disproportionately vote Democrat is obvious, and should be fooling no-one with an I.Q. over eighty. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-democrats-want-illegal-alien-votes/606195.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-democrats-want-illegal-alien-votes/606195.md?page=4)