# Do democrats want illegal alien votes? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [December 14, 2011, 5:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-democrats-want-illegal-alien-votes/606195 "2011-12-14T17:34:54Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![Buchanan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/edb3f5/32.png) [@Buchanan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Buchanan)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2011, 9:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-democrats-want-illegal-alien-votes/606195/81 "2011-12-15T21:35:51Z")
> [@DrCube](#): > > Sure, so long as laws don’t apply to those disenfranchised in your plan. “No skin in the game” and all. No one is disenfranchised. They enjoy the fruits and opportunities which citizenship in our society offers. But if they don’t, or haven’t, contributed toward the system or own/owned assets impacted by the system (or otherwise have a good reason why not), they forfeit the additional privilege of voting. Plenty of other people whose actions (or lack thereof) don’t contribute toward society similarly lose the privilege (e.g., felons). If you pay for dinner, you pick the restaurant. Beggars can’t be choosers. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2011, 9:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-democrats-want-illegal-alien-votes/606195/82 "2011-12-15T21:50:41Z")
> [@Buchanan](#): > > No one is disenfranchised. They enjoy the fruits and opportunities which citizenship in our society offers. But if they don’t, or haven’t, contributed toward the system or own/owned assets impacted by the system (or otherwise have a good reason why not), they forfeit the additional privilege of voting. Plenty of other people whose actions (or lack thereof) don’t contribute toward society similarly lose the privilege (e.g., felons). Nobody’s disenfranchised, they just can’t vote? Out of curiosity, what do you think the word disenfranchised means? ---
**Author:** ![Shagnasty](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9dc877/32.png) [@Shagnasty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shagnasty)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2011, 10:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-democrats-want-illegal-alien-votes/606195/83 "2011-12-15T22:18:37Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > Well, “illegal alien” is one of those terms that really gets hackles up and inspires knee-jerk reactions. > > So let us take two persons: > > A; Was born in Canada, is a legal USA resident of 10 years, married to a US Citizen, has a Masters degree, owns a home, owns a small business pays income, sales & property taxes, is wares of current issues and news, and is active in PTA and the community. > > B. Was born in USA. Owns no property, is homeless, unemployed, dropped out of High School, a minor criminal, pays no income or property taxes and doesn’t give a rats ass about his community. > > Who can really say that Person B better deserves to vote than Person A? I see where lost of people are getting mixed up here. You think it is some type of virtue contest and everyone should look at it that way. It isn’t. You can vote if you are a citizen and can’t if you aren’t. It really is that simple. I could flee to Canada or France or England and hide out there for years and they probably wouldn’t let me vote either. I really don’t see an issue with that. If you don’t like the real-world results, the place to address that is through the legal immigration and citizenship process. You can’t just base the right to vote on how good a person you think someone is. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2011, 11:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-democrats-want-illegal-alien-votes/606195/84 "2011-12-15T23:05:09Z")
> [@Voyager](#): > > That is exactly the right analysis, but Republicans aren’t as statistically ignorant as you think. They talk about the evils of Type II errors, but they actually want to encourage Type I errors, since that would cover far more Democratic voters than Republican ones. Yeah, that’s the point I was trying to make - the Republican core is well aware of the happy fringe benefit; it’s the glenbeckian stooges who pick up on and repeat the mantra “don’t let illegals vote!” while being unaware of how they’re being manipulated that I mock. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2011, 11:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-democrats-want-illegal-alien-votes/606195/85 "2011-12-15T23:27:21Z")
> [@Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](#): > > So you are implying Hispanics like to vote for people who would prefer not to defend the borders? :dubious: We ain’t at war with Mexico. Defending the border and policing it are two different things and _La Migra_ does not defend it. ---
**Author:** ![foolsguinea](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/foolsguinea/32/14751_2.png) [@foolsguinea](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/foolsguinea)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2011, 11:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-democrats-want-illegal-alien-votes/606195/86 "2011-12-15T23:28:21Z")
I want people who live in this country long-term to be able to gain legal resident status, and, after a not-too-long interval, be naturalized if they so choose. This would confer citizenship and franchise on some persons who, under the present low-quota, long-naturalization-period rules, are illegal aliens. But I don’t want them to vote as illegal aliens so much as I want them to have legal recognition in the district of their residence. So, sorta. (Raised an open-borders, free-trader, internationalist Republican, btw.) ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2011, 11:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-democrats-want-illegal-alien-votes/606195/87 "2011-12-15T23:34:08Z")
> [@Buchanan](#): > > Not only do I not support crim-aliens voting in elections on any level, I would further restrict voting to 1 per household, provided such household owns (or mortgages) a home, includes at least one individual who has worked and payed taxes in the majority of their adult years, or includes at least one individual who is handicapped or retired. > > No skin in the game, no say in the rules. We all have skin in the game because, whatever government does or does not do, we all have to live with the results. When Jeffereson said “all men are created equal” he did not mean equally good, or intelligent, or productive, but only that all humans are equally ends-in-themselves. A radical assertion, in a civilization and century that assumed some people matter and others are born to minister to them, despite Christianity preaching the contrary from day one. It is not a disprovable assertion because it is an ethical assertion, not a scientific one, and you accept it or you don’t. But American society as a whole does. And that’s why we all get equal votes – not because we all contribute equally, but because we all matter equally. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2011, 11:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-democrats-want-illegal-alien-votes/606195/88 "2011-12-15T23:44:42Z")
> [@Shagnasty](#): > > I see where lost of people are getting mixed up here. You think it is some type of virtue contest and everyone should look at it that way. It isn’t. You can vote if you are a citizen and can’t if you aren’t. It really is that simple. I could flee to Canada or France or England and hide out there for years and they probably wouldn’t let me vote either. I really don’t see an issue with that. If you don’t like the real-world results, the place to address that is through the legal immigration and citizenship process. You can’t just base the right to vote on how good a person you think someone is. Actually, it’s perfectly legal to let Resident aliens vote in local elections, which is exactly what the local mayor in the OP wants to do. So, since it’s legal, why again should B get to vote and not A? A; Was born in Canada, is a legal USA resident of 10 years, married to a US Citizen, has a Masters degree, owns a home, owns a small business pays income, sales & property taxes, is wares of current issues and news, and is active in PTA and the community. B. Was born in USA. Owns no property, is homeless, unemployed, dropped out of High School, a minor criminal, pays no income or property taxes and doesn’t give a rats ass about his community. ---
**Author:** ![DrCube](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a3d4f5/32.png) [@DrCube](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrCube)\ **Post date:** [December 16, 2011, 12:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-democrats-want-illegal-alien-votes/606195/89 "2011-12-16T00:02:29Z")
> [@Buchanan](#): > > No one is disenfranchised. They enjoy the fruits and opportunities which citizenship in our society offers. But if they don’t, or haven’t, contributed toward the system or own/owned assets impacted by the system (or otherwise have a good reason why not), they forfeit the additional privilege of voting. Plenty of other people whose actions (or lack thereof) don’t contribute toward society similarly lose the privilege (e.g., felons). > > If you pay for dinner, you pick the restaurant. Beggars can’t be choosers. Your scheme takes away the right to vote from anyone who doesn’t own a home. “Take away the right to vote” is the DEFINITION of “disenfranchise”. Out of curiosity, why does “a good reason why not” make a difference? According to you, they either “have skin in the game” or they don’t. What does it matter if they’re old or handicapped? Why does that beat out “didn’t jump through arbitrary, artificial, expensive and onerous hoops for a decade or so”? Everyone who is subject to our government’s laws should have a say in them. That includes every single person who lives here. I’d go so far as to say children and foreign visitors with a motivation to vote should be able to as well, but let’s take it one step at a time. ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [December 16, 2011, 12:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-democrats-want-illegal-alien-votes/606195/90 "2011-12-16T00:07:37Z")
There’s nothing more “American” in spirit or values than the notion that you become American simply by wanting to be so. ---
**Author:** ![Buchanan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/edb3f5/32.png) [@Buchanan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Buchanan)\ **Post date:** [December 16, 2011, 12:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-democrats-want-illegal-alien-votes/606195/91 "2011-12-16T00:09:52Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > Nobody’s disenfranchised, they just can’t vote? > > Out of curiosity, what do you think the word disenfranchised means? As citizens, they have the _potential_ to be voters, subject to several provisions: demonstrating maturity (becoming of age - minors don’t vote), reasoning ability (nearly all states restrict voting from those mentally handicapped), conformance with the law (felons incarcerated and not on parole or probation generally don’t vote), the ability to fill out the registration form, etc. As far as I’m concerned, contributing toward society and paying taxes is just as reasonable. Taking up space or being on welfare for 20 out of your 50 working years doesn’t count. > [@BrainGlutton](#): > > We all have skin in the game because, whatever government does or does not do, we all have to live with the results. When Jeffereson said “all men are created equal” he did not mean equally good, or intelligent, or productive, but only that all humans are equally ends-in-themselves. A radical assertion, in a civilization and century that assumed some people matter and others are born to minister to them, despite Christianity preaching the contrary from day one. It is not a disprovable assertion because it is an ethical assertion, not a scientific one, and you accept it or you don’t. But American society as a whole does. And that’s why we all get equal votes – not because we all contribute equally, but because we all matter equally. Yes, he said “all men are created equal” and thus one could conclude this applied to suffrage. But he also wrote, in his autobiography of 1821, that “_Nothing is more certainly written in the book of fate than that these people are to be free. Nor is it less certain that the two races, equally free, cannot live in the same government._”. Given the people alluded to in this assertion were men but clearly not ones he would franchise let alone give citizenship to - in this context - one vote per household and voting for land-owners and tax-payers et. al. is not so radical. Plus, it would cut out a lot of the uninformed liberal voters trying to save the world. ---
**Author:** ![Buchanan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/edb3f5/32.png) [@Buchanan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Buchanan)\ **Post date:** [December 16, 2011, 12:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-democrats-want-illegal-alien-votes/606195/92 "2011-12-16T00:16:22Z")
> [@DrCube](#): > > Your scheme takes away the right to vote from anyone who doesn’t own a home. “Take away the right to vote” is the DEFINITION of “disenfranchise”. No it doesn’t. Look again at what I wrote. I said own a home OR have reasonably paid taxes currently or in the past OR be disabled OR be retired. > [@DrCube](#): > > Out of curiosity, why does “a good reason why not” make a difference? According to you, they either “have skin in the game” or they don’t. What does it matter if they’re old or handicapped? Why does that beat out “didn’t jump through arbitrary, artificial, expensive and onerous hoops for a decade or so”? Because if someone is retired they have already contributed and if someone is handicapped they are constrained from contributing. > [@DrCube](#): > > Everyone who is subject to our government’s laws should have a say in them. That includes every single person who lives here. I’d go so far as to say children and foreign visitors with a motivation to vote should be able to as well, but let’s take it one step at a time. They do have a say, but just like minors, felons, those who don’t register, etc., that say is more limited. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Second\_Stone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/bbe5ce/32.png) [@The\_Second\_Stone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Second_Stone)\ **Post date:** [December 16, 2011, 12:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-democrats-want-illegal-alien-votes/606195/93 "2011-12-16T00:31:38Z")
Saw the story and I think it is a stupid idea. Really bad idea. I don’t know why any Democrat would want it to be legal for people on work visas to vote. I also do not know of any person who wants an illegal alien to vote. I don’t want any part of any kind of voter fraud, it is incomprehensibly corrupt. There was a case in my county maybe 10 years ago where some guy registered his dog to vote. He was not a Democrat (man and dog). He was charged, but I don’t know the outcome. ---
**Author:** ![Eva\_Luna](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/e495f1/32.png) [@Eva\_Luna](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Eva_Luna)\ **Post date:** [December 16, 2011, 1:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-democrats-want-illegal-alien-votes/606195/94 "2011-12-16T01:38:20Z")
> [@The\_Second\_Stone](#): > > Saw the story and I think it is a stupid idea. Really bad idea. I don’t know why any Democrat would want it to be legal for people on work visas to vote. Why not? It’s entirely possible for a person in the U.S. on a work visa to apply for a green card, and because of quota backlogs, for the green card not to be approved for several years or more. This person is working legally, paying taxes, and quite possibly owns property and/or has U.S.-born children in school. Why should this person not be able to vote on local issues or serve on a school board, at a bare minimum? ---
**Author:** ![miss\_elizabeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/838e76/32.png) [@miss\_elizabeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/miss_elizabeth)\ **Post date:** [December 16, 2011, 1:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-democrats-want-illegal-alien-votes/606195/95 "2011-12-16T01:57:15Z")
> [@Buchanan](#): > > Plus, it would cut out a lot of the…liberal voters… The real reason. ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [December 16, 2011, 2:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-democrats-want-illegal-alien-votes/606195/96 "2011-12-16T02:00:22Z")
> [@Bryan\_Ekers](#): > > I could (in theory, though I’ve never bothered to do so) get a refund for sales taxes on my purchases there - not an option for an illegal immigrant. Nope. US state sales taxes aren’t VAT’s. Full payment up front, no refunds for _anybody_, don’t even ask unless you want to be laughed at. > [@LonesomePolecat](#): > > That was an election in which Democrats tried to prevent absentee ballots from being counted, because many of those ballots would be cast by military personnel more likely to vote Republican than Democrat. Nope. They tried to prevent the counting of ballots _postmarked after Election Day_. I do hope you can see the problem with that, can’t you? They backed down when the Republicans waved the flag in their faces. ---
**Author:** ![Shagnasty](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9dc877/32.png) [@Shagnasty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shagnasty)\ **Post date:** [December 16, 2011, 2:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-democrats-want-illegal-alien-votes/606195/97 "2011-12-16T02:44:25Z")
> [@Acsenray](#): > > There’s nothing more “American” in spirit or values than the notion that you become American simply by wanting to be so. You can be poetic all you want but this isn’t workable. Let’s face it, this is an open borders debate in disguise. It is usually some fringe libertarians that advocate truly open borders but other groups seem to like it to a degree as well if it advances their cause. Let’s cut out the middle-man and just have an open borders debate if we really want to be honest about it. ---
**Author:** ![PandaBear77](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/edb3f5/32.png) [@PandaBear77](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PandaBear77)\ **Post date:** [December 16, 2011, 2:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-democrats-want-illegal-alien-votes/606195/98 "2011-12-16T02:49:41Z")
> [@md2000](#): > > Of course, the USA generally has willfully ignored the illegal immigrant propblem (GD here again) to get a class of low-wage workers; they are as permanent as anyone else in the context of a municipality and modern mobility. Unless their employers(citizens) are violating the law, they pay income tax. They pay sales taxes. They or their landlords pay property taxes. Why shouldn’t they vote? This is not difficult. They’re not citizens. No citizenship, no vote. And OF COURSE their employers are violating the law! If they’re here illegally, they’re not supposed to be working. > [@Shagnasty](#): > > I see where lost of people are getting mixed up here. You think it is some type of virtue contest and everyone should look at it that way. It isn’t. You can vote if you are a citizen and can’t if you aren’t. It really is that simple. I could flee to Canada or France or England and hide out there for years and they probably wouldn’t let me vote either. I really don’t see an issue with that. If you don’t like the real-world results, the place to address that is through the legal immigration and citizenship process. You can’t just base the right to vote on how good a person you think someone is. Or, what he (she?) said. ---
**Author:** ![foolsguinea](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/foolsguinea/32/14751_2.png) [@foolsguinea](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/foolsguinea)\ **Post date:** [December 16, 2011, 3:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-democrats-want-illegal-alien-votes/606195/99 "2011-12-16T03:04:00Z")
> [@TheUthaBrutha](#): > > I’ve never known any illegals that weren’t paid under the table, thus not paying income tax, unless they are paying it quarterly and being honest, which I don’t see happening. I’ve never known any not to be paid the prevailing wage. :dubious: Anyway, the best way to fix that is to get them legal and above ground. > [@](#): > > They shouldn’t vote, because they shouldn’t be here. If you don’t like the rules, change them, you don’t break them. **This is what we are trying to do!** > [@](#): > > And don’t forget services illegals take up to. Sure you can pay sales tax and have 10 years of sales tax wiped out by one unpaid visit to a county hospital. Because you get no insurance, as you’re getting paid under the table. And you’re underpaid for the work you’re performing. Oh, wait a minute… > [@](#): > > It’s also estimated nearly half of all illegal alien income is funneled back to their homelands. So if you have someone earning $100 a week, $50 of it’s going back into an economy that will not help anyone. Foreigners who spend American dollars are probably going to end up feeding demand for American products. Why don’t you care about the trade deficit?! > [@](#): > > Illegals also make it possible for slum lords to exist because the won’t report substandard conditions. They refuse to report crime, either witnessing or being victims. They are not the cause of this but they are helping to create a condition where it exists. Exactly. That’s why we need to change the law so fewer immigrants are illegal. I think we agree here. > [@](#): > > I don’t fault illegals, after all they are here because the employers want them. The common myth is illegals work jobs Americans don’t want. They are working jobs that are illegal and dangerous to begin with. You give an illegal alien, legal status and he just quits and finds a “real” minimum wage job. Thus the illegal job opens up and is filled up with another illegal. So it is the employers creating the demand. That’s a little too supply-side for me to buy it. Let’s say the American economy is creating the demand, and the American middle-class consumer contributes with his expectation of cheap “Made in America” goods. > [@](#): > > Like prostitution, it is blamed on the women, but the men create the situation that allows it to exist. I agree with the parallel, but I hope I don’t quote you and accidentally call the latino men who work in agriculture in my state, “women.” > [@ElvisL1ves](#): > > What, to you, would following the principles and precepts of democracy itself, not just the perceived advantage of a particular party, entail? An acquaintance of mine used to have this response to moralistic political proposals: “There are words coming out of your mouth, but I don’t understand them.” > [@IntelliQ](#): > > 1. Some feel that American sovereignty, immigration and election laws are “garbage”. > A) Breathing air inside US borders makes you American enough to vote. > B) Not only should you get to vote by virtue of breathing in and out, but there should be open borders and the concept of “illegal” be scrapped altogether. Just come on in. > C) My WAG is those mindsets are held by people who would change their view if those votes went to their opposing party. (Correct me if I’m mistaken) Considering I have changed parties partly over creeping nativism in my own party, doubtful. And it’s not “breathing air.” It’s living and working in a territory and economy. I breathe air that’s come over Canada and Japan all the time; that does not make me a Japanese-Canuck. > [@](#): > > B) Many of them (percentage needed) use services paid for by US taxpaying residents and citizens, dwarfing any small contributions they do make. High cost services include: [/INDENT] > [INDENT] a) School systems (plus additional bilingual ed) > b) Medical care > c) Public food pantries/drives > d) Utility assistance > e) Rental or housing assistance > f) Judicial system > g) Prisons > h) Child daycare assistance[/INDENT] > C) Most (need percentage) illegal aliens do not report crime or become witnesses in court against criminals, allow slumlord conditions, or report community safety concerns. This overlooks the fact that these people are supplying a lot of cheap (i.e., underpriced) labor in the construction and agriculture sectors, as immigration restrictionists like to whine. Are they really getting a “good” deal, any more than any other poor prole? > [@Buchanan](#): > > Not only do I not support crim-aliens voting in elections on any level, I would further restrict voting to 1 per household, provided such household owns (or mortgages) a home, includes at least one individual who has worked and payed taxes in the majority of their adult years, or includes at least one individual who is handicapped or retired. > > No skin in the game, no say in the rules. Hi, Jack! So what about someone who never gets to own a home, never owes income taxes, etc., because he’s chronically underpaid? And what does disenfranchising residents of your country do the likelihood of that situation happening more often? > [@Buchanan](#): > > (nearly all states restrict voting from those mentally handicapped), As someone who’s done Get Out the Vote work in the past, I didn’t believe this. But perhaps it is technically true. > [@](#): > > conformance with the law (felons incarcerated and not on parole or probation generally don’t vote), Interesting how those we vote for can concoct new crimes out of thin air, then, isn’t it? Is being “tough on crime” really just incumbent job protection? > [@](#): > > As far as I’m concerned, contributing toward society and paying taxes is just as reasonable. Taking up space or being on welfare for 20 out of your 50 working years doesn’t count. Who defines “taking up space”? The politicians who benefit from manipulating the electorate, presumably. How about someone unjustly convicted of a crime? Oh, wait, he’s a felon now, no vote. Someone fraudulently declared mentally incapacitated? Oh, he’s a looney, no vote. Someone who’s been unlawfully denied fair compensation for his work and could never buy property, whose employer never even filled out his tax forms? Why, he barely exists to the state! Can you see the potential for abuse? > [@](#): > > Yes, he said “all men are created equal” and thus one could conclude this applied to suffrage. But he also wrote, in his autobiography of 1821, that “_Nothing is more certainly written in the book of fate than that these people are to be free. Nor is it less certain that the two races, equally free, cannot live in the same government._”. Given the people alluded to in this assertion were men but clearly not ones he would franchise let alone give citizenship to - in this context - one vote per household and voting for land-owners and tax-payers et. al. is not so radical. Plus, it would cut out a lot of the uninformed liberal voters trying to save the world. So your doctrine is to stop the world from being saved. Got it. Also, are you actually making an appeal to the authority of a racist who treated his own mixed-race in-laws as slaves? ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [December 16, 2011, 6:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-democrats-want-illegal-alien-votes/606195/100 "2011-12-16T06:11:02Z")
Personally, I agree with the idea that only American citizens should vote in national elections. But I don’t imagine I get to join the conservative cool kids club over this issue - because I also think we should have a relatively open door policy on allowing people to immigrate to the United States and become American citizens. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-democrats-want-illegal-alien-votes/606195.md?page=4) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-democrats-want-illegal-alien-votes/606195.md?page=6)