# Do democrats want illegal alien votes? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [December 14, 2011, 5:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-democrats-want-illegal-alien-votes/606195 "2011-12-14T17:34:54Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 6
**Author:** ![fumster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/e9c0ed/32.png) [@fumster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/fumster)\ **Post date:** [December 16, 2011, 7:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-democrats-want-illegal-alien-votes/606195/101 "2011-12-16T07:41:19Z")
> [@md2000](#): > > Basically, the concept of allowing citizens to vote means the people with a stake in what happens to their community get to decide. If you allow those with limited ties to the community, or those who may be gone tomorrow, to select the government, then you run the risk that the winners in the election may not have the best interests of mainly the permanent residents at heart. I agree. That’s why all those folks with summer houses in the Hamptons, estates in Hawaii, and pied a terres in Paris shouldn’t be allowed to vote. Those are the kinds of folks who will move jobs overseas with no thought as to how it affects the real Americans who have ties to the community. ---
**Author:** ![BigT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bigt/32/12044_2.png) [@BigT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigT)\ **Post date:** [December 16, 2011, 10:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-democrats-want-illegal-alien-votes/606195/102 "2011-12-16T10:04:12Z")
> [@IntelliQ](#): > > My WAG is those mindsets are held by people who would change their view if those votes went to their opposing party. (Correct me if I’m mistaken) Of course it’s mistaken. You just came into a thread where you asked a question, and then just assume the answer despite everyone giving their reasons for why you answer is bollocks. People only say that illegal immigrants are people because they want their votes. That’s the only possible reason. Despite pointing out that any illegal alien who is actually working pays the same taxes you do, save for the money they have to send back home because our country make them have to sneak around. ---
**Author:** ![DrCube](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a3d4f5/32.png) [@DrCube](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrCube)\ **Post date:** [December 16, 2011, 12:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-democrats-want-illegal-alien-votes/606195/103 "2011-12-16T12:22:50Z")
What if state borders were as closed as the US? Does that make you a criminal if you decide to move from St. Louis to Indianapolis? You shouldn’t be able to vote or even earn a living without paying tens of thousands of dollars over the course of a decade or two (if you’re lucky) for the despicable crime of being born on different patch of dirt? For that matter _why not_ make state borders as closed as the Rio Grande? It’s the same concept, just more of it. Hell, let’s make it a crime to cross county lines, that’s even better! Fucking lowlife criminals, how dare they be born somewhere else? Maybe because it’s a GOOD THING, morally and economically, that people are allowed to go anywhere they please? And if it’s good between states, it should be good between nations as well. Can anybody explain why an arbitrary line between Arizona and Mexico is more sacred than an arbitrary line between Arizona and New Mexico? Are people somehow less criminal if they were born to the east rather than the south? ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [December 16, 2011, 2:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-democrats-want-illegal-alien-votes/606195/104 "2011-12-16T14:50:29Z")
> [@DrCube](#): > > What if state borders were as closed as the US? Does that make you a criminal if you decide to move from St. Louis to Indianapolis? You shouldn’t be able to vote or even earn a living without paying tens of thousands of dollars over the course of a decade or two (if you’re lucky) for the despicable crime of being born on different patch of dirt? > > For that matter _why not_ make state borders as closed as the Rio Grande? It’s the same concept, just more of it. Hell, let’s make it a crime to cross county lines, that’s even better! Fucking lowlife criminals, how dare they be born somewhere else? Maybe because it’s a GOOD THING, morally and economically, that people are allowed to go anywhere they please? And if it’s good between states, it should be good between nations as well. > > Can anybody explain why an arbitrary line between Arizona and Mexico is more sacred than an arbitrary line between Arizona and New Mexico? Are people somehow less criminal if they were born to the east rather than the south? The lines aren’t arbitrary. The define areas with different sets of laws, different tax structures, and different social services. Why do you get to keep your liver if I need it to survive? Can anybody explain why an arbitrary line between the inside of your body and the outside of your body is more sacred than an arbitrary line between the inside of my body and the outside of it? ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [December 16, 2011, 3:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-democrats-want-illegal-alien-votes/606195/105 "2011-12-16T15:23:14Z")
> [@Buchanan](#): > > No it doesn’t. Look again at what I wrote. I said own a home OR have reasonably paid taxes currently or in the past OR be disabled OR be retired. Everyone pays taxes- even illegal aliens- so apparently you want to extend the franchise to everyone. ---
**Author:** ![Buchanan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/edb3f5/32.png) [@Buchanan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Buchanan)\ **Post date:** [December 16, 2011, 3:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-democrats-want-illegal-alien-votes/606195/106 "2011-12-16T15:23:27Z")
The comments here are shocking. Why not let the entire third world in? With their average IQs two standard deviations less than the current American, I’m sure they will do tremendous good to our society. These people can create their own countries. We’re not stopping them. I’d hate to have a seat on a filled-to-capacity lifeboat with dozens more left in the water if one of you were captain. You’d refuse no one until the water was over the sides and we’d all go down to Davy Jones locker. ---
**Author:** ![Buchanan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/edb3f5/32.png) [@Buchanan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Buchanan)\ **Post date:** [December 16, 2011, 3:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-democrats-want-illegal-alien-votes/606195/107 "2011-12-16T15:24:34Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > Everyone pays taxes- even illegal aliens- so apparently you want to extend the franchise to everyone. I said “citizens who had or contributed X, Y, or Z”…not people. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [December 16, 2011, 3:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-democrats-want-illegal-alien-votes/606195/108 "2011-12-16T15:29:49Z")
> [@Buchanan](#): > > I said “citizens who had or contributed X, Y, or Z”…not people. Okay, so every household that includes a citizen still gets to vote. What, then, is the difference with your big plan (other than increasing the value of single people’s votes)? > [@](#): > > Why not let the entire third world in? With their average IQs two standard deviations less than the current American, I’m sure they will do tremendous good to our society. There’s certainly _one_ shocking comment here. ---
**Author:** ![G-SE](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/f0a364/32.png) [@G-SE](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/G-SE)\ **Post date:** [December 16, 2011, 3:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-democrats-want-illegal-alien-votes/606195/109 "2011-12-16T15:34:19Z")
I wonder if all these “open border” fruitcakes will let me come in their house, sleep in their bed, bonk their wife, take some of their belongings, eat their food whenever I feel like it. I’m not a criminal because I was born under a different roof! wahhhh! ---
**Author:** ![Buchanan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/edb3f5/32.png) [@Buchanan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Buchanan)\ **Post date:** [December 16, 2011, 3:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-democrats-want-illegal-alien-votes/606195/110 "2011-12-16T15:36:05Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > Okay, so every household that includes a citizen still gets to vote. What, then, is the difference with your big plan (other than increasing the value of single people’s votes)? The X, Y, and Z part. Provided they are able-bodied adults, those who don’t contribute don’t get a say. Once they resume contributions, they resume voting. This eliminates the chances of the current situation in the US occurring, where we have nearly a plurality of non-tax-payers voting to increase their entitlements and suck the producers dry, and by sheer numbers there is nothing the productive can do about it. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [December 16, 2011, 3:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-democrats-want-illegal-alien-votes/606195/111 "2011-12-16T15:36:44Z")
[QUOTE=G-SE] I wonder if all these “open border” fruitcakes will let me come in their house, sleep in their bed, bonk their wife, take some of their belongings, eat their food whenever I feel like it. I’m not a criminal because I was born under a different roof! wahhhh! [/QUOTE] I wonder if it’s telling that you listed your wife among your chattels. [QUOTE=Buchanan] The X, Y, and Z part. Provided they are able-bodied adults, those who don’t contribute don’t get a say. Once they resume contributions, they resume voting. This eliminates the chances of the current situation in the US occurring, where we have nearly a plurality of non-tax-payers voting to increase their entitlements and suck the producers dry, and by sheer numbers there is nothing the productive can do about it. [/QUOTE] As I’ve already pointed out, _every_ adult pays taxes. ---
**Author:** ![G-SE](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/f0a364/32.png) [@G-SE](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/G-SE)\ **Post date:** [December 16, 2011, 3:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-democrats-want-illegal-alien-votes/606195/112 "2011-12-16T15:55:47Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > I wonder if it’s telling that you listed your wife among your chattels. Wrong. My (hypothetical) wife is just one of the people (as well as possessions) that my property border is designed to help protect. And I noticed you still didn’t answer the question either. So how bout it? Can I put up a tent in your back yard? Can I sell drugs from your driveway? Can I pick fruit from the trees on your lawn? Can I swim in your pool whenever I want? and more importantly… If I, without your permission, put a tent up in your backyard, should I get a say in your family budget? ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [December 16, 2011, 4:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-democrats-want-illegal-alien-votes/606195/113 "2011-12-16T16:02:50Z")
I don’t think we should have open borders, so you’ll have to ask someone else. To analogize illegal immigrants as people setting up tents in your backyard without permission is silly, though. Americans clearly _are_ encouraging them to come, since they get hired by the dozens. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [December 16, 2011, 4:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-democrats-want-illegal-alien-votes/606195/114 "2011-12-16T16:08:12Z")
I would answer that you have managed to put a vexing and complex question into a few direct and simple absurdities. ---
**Author:** ![G-SE](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/f0a364/32.png) [@G-SE](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/G-SE)\ **Post date:** [December 16, 2011, 4:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-democrats-want-illegal-alien-votes/606195/115 "2011-12-16T16:08:30Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > I don’t think we should have open borders, so you’ll have to ask someone else. To analogize illegal immigrants as people setting up tents in your backyard without permission is silly, though. Americans clearly _are_ encouraging them to come, since they get hired by the dozens. Yeah.. clearly… :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [December 16, 2011, 4:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-democrats-want-illegal-alien-votes/606195/116 "2011-12-16T16:09:52Z")
I accept your concession. ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [December 16, 2011, 4:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-democrats-want-illegal-alien-votes/606195/117 "2011-12-16T16:14:01Z")
> [@Buchanan](#): > > I’d hate to have a seat on a filled-to-capacity lifeboat with dozens more left in the water if one of you were captain. You’d refuse no one until the water was over the sides and we’d all go down to Davy Jones locker. > [@G-SE](#): > > I wonder if all these “open border” fruitcakes will let me come in their house I simply don’t accept these as valid analogies. The country is neither a life boat, nor a private home. And no matter what you say, you can’t persuade me of your point of view by pretending it is. > [@Buchanan](#): > > The comments here are shocking. Why not let the entire third world in? With their average IQs two standard deviations less than the current American, I’m sure they will do tremendous good to our society. > [@G-SE](#): > > , sleep in their bed, bonk their wife, take some of their belongings, eat their food whenever I feel like it. I’m not a criminal because I was born under a different roof! wahhhh! Think about who might have been saying this when _your_ mentally defective, criminally inclined, disgusting, filthy, rapist, thieving, hungry, lazy, diseased ancestors cursed these shores with their presence. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [December 16, 2011, 4:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-democrats-want-illegal-alien-votes/606195/118 "2011-12-16T16:18:23Z")
Uncle Fred? ---
**Author:** ![G-SE](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/f0a364/32.png) [@G-SE](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/G-SE)\ **Post date:** [December 16, 2011, 4:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-democrats-want-illegal-alien-votes/606195/119 "2011-12-16T16:23:39Z")
> [@elucidator](#): > > I would answer that you have managed to put a vexing and complex question into a few direct and simple absurdities. It’s only complex if you make it. It boils down to a simple question. Should someone who has illegally taken up residence somewhere have a say in how that somewhere is governed, and should they have full access to all services, rights, and benefits that are normally reserved for the legal residents? You can debate all you want about the whys and hows of how the illegals got there, what they do when they are there, how long they’ve been there, etc., but it doesn’t change that one question, or the analogy. You probably won’t answer the question because you probably agree with me on the tent issue, but disagree on the illegal alien issue. And to say so, without being able to throw in 100 nuanced reasons why they’re different, would make you look like a hypocrite. I understand that. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [December 16, 2011, 4:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-democrats-want-illegal-alien-votes/606195/120 "2011-12-16T16:25:02Z")
> [@](#): > > …Think about who might have been saying this when your mentally defective, criminally inclined, disgusting, filthy, rapist, thieving, hungry, lazy, diseased ancestors cursed these shores with their presence. “Here’s some corn, some sweet potatoes, and some turkeys, enough to sustain you on your voyage home. Now get out!” [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-democrats-want-illegal-alien-votes/606195.md?page=5) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-democrats-want-illegal-alien-votes/606195.md?page=7)