# Do democrats want illegal alien votes? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [December 14, 2011, 5:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-democrats-want-illegal-alien-votes/606195 "2011-12-14T17:34:54Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 10\ **Page:** 8
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2011, 2:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-democrats-want-illegal-alien-votes/606195/141 "2011-12-17T02:18:38Z")
> [@Fear\_Itself](#): > > The Republican plan would cost hundreds of billions of dollars. How do we pay for that? Cut costs by using illegal-immigrant labor. ---
**Author:** ![Zedd](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/3ab097/32.png) [@Zedd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zedd)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2011, 2:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-democrats-want-illegal-alien-votes/606195/142 "2011-12-17T02:56:17Z")
> [@Eva\_Luna](#): > > If they are having taxes withheld from their paychecks, how do you figure they aren’t paying taxes? The dude working is the dude whose taxes are being withheld. Because they are having money taken out of their paycheck and deposited into the federal treasury does not make it ‘them being taxed’. The government does not impose an ipso facto tax on an illegal alien, though it is gaining one de facto, because the government (legally) does not allow that person to work to get money to pay the tax. Also, the person social security # under who the illegal alien is working is being credited with more fica than they ought because they are not earning the money. These folks who are working under a false id are also creating an unmitigated hell for the poor bastard who’s id they stole. I have two friends who discovered someone was using their ssn to work by finding far more money in their yearly fica statement then they earned. ---
**Author:** ![tomndebb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b9e5f3/32.png) [@tomndebb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tomndebb)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2011, 3:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-democrats-want-illegal-alien-votes/606195/143 "2011-12-17T03:35:21Z")
> [@G-SE](#): > > I wonder if all these “open border” fruitcakes will let me come in their house, sleep in their bed, bonk their wife, take some of their belongings, eat their food whenever I feel like it. I’m not a criminal because I was born under a different roof! wahhhh! Knock it off. > [@Acsenray](#): > > Think about who might have been saying this when _your_ mentally defective, criminally inclined, disgusting, filthy, rapist, thieving, hungry, lazy, diseased ancestors cursed these shores with their presence. Attacking a poster’s ancestors is no less provocative than attacking the posters. You knock it off, as well. = = = EVERYONE needs to step back and consider that this is supposed to be a debate, not a Pit rant. If you need to attack your opponents on a personal level, then go open a BBQ PPit thread. [/Moderating] ---
**Author:** ![Eva\_Luna](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/e495f1/32.png) [@Eva\_Luna](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Eva_Luna)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2011, 4:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-democrats-want-illegal-alien-votes/606195/144 "2011-12-17T04:29:39Z")
> [@Zedd](#): > > Because they are having money taken out of their paycheck and deposited into the federal treasury does not make it ‘them being taxed’. The government does not impose an ipso facto tax on an illegal alien, though it is gaining one de facto, because the government (legally) does not allow that person to work to get money to pay the tax. Also, the person social security # under who the illegal alien is working is being credited with more fica than they ought because they are not earning the money. These folks who are working under a false id are also creating an unmitigated hell for the poor bastard who’s id they stole. I have two friends who discovered someone was using their ssn to work by finding far more money in their yearly fica statement then they earned. You are mixing up two totally separate issues. I was discussing only the taxation issue. The government is receiving, in many cases, MORE tax revenue from someone working on a SS# not his/her own, because the worker will not be able to claim any refund for which he/she would be otherwise eligible based on income. On the issue I didn’t discuss, but that you are mentioning now: people who use someone else’s SS# (or an entirely invented SS#) in order to be able to work, but for no other purpose, [are actually subsidizing Social Security to the tune of around $7 billion a year.](http://www.nytimes.com/2005/04/05/business/05immigration.html) ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2011, 7:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-democrats-want-illegal-alien-votes/606195/145 "2011-12-17T07:36:47Z")
> [@Fear\_Itself](#): > > The Republican plan would cost hundreds of billions of dollars. How do we pay for that? End the war on drugs, the costs are about the same. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2011, 8:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-democrats-want-illegal-alien-votes/606195/146 "2011-12-17T08:01:36Z")
> [@G-SE](#): > > I wonder if all these “open border” fruitcakes will let me come in their house, sleep in their bed, bonk their wife, take some of their belongings, eat their food whenever I feel like it. I’m not a criminal because I was born under a different roof! wahhhh! The distinction is you don’t own the United States. Somebody coming to America isn’t taking anything from you. ---
**Author:** ![Naxos](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/50afbb/32.png) [@Naxos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Naxos)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2011, 8:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-democrats-want-illegal-alien-votes/606195/147 "2011-12-17T08:19:15Z")
> [@IntelliQ](#): > > Is it really a good idea to have illegal aliens voting in American elections? What are the consequences? As an aside… You know how all Republican and conservative pundits could not get enough of saying “oral sex” in their TV shows or newspaper columns during the Clinton administration? Their self imposed Victorian muffle on sex was too much to bear and they almost enjoyed the chance they had to speak and reference anything that had to do with sex, as in oral sex, on national media. It’s the same thing with the self-imposed drooling on uttering the term “illegal” with the conservatives. They already know they will give a pass to mass murderers they voted for President, and they will do again, but they huddle around the term “illegal” like they are proving to society that they are legitimate moral citizens. The “illegal” in the “illegal aliens” common term refers to bureaucratic paperwork, not to an act a person has done, like robbery or murder, that would also classify them as illegal. Just a point to ponder. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2011, 9:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-democrats-want-illegal-alien-votes/606195/148 "2011-12-17T09:14:59Z")
> [@ElvisL1ves](#): > > Nope. US state sales taxes aren’t VAT’s. Full payment up front, no refunds for _anybody_, don’t even ask unless you want to be laughed at. It varies by type of purchase and state ([North Dakota’s official forms for Canadians](https://secure.apps.nd.gov/tax/sales/canadianrefund/)) but your confident ignorance on the matter fails to surprise me. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2011, 7:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-democrats-want-illegal-alien-votes/606195/149 "2011-12-18T19:54:21Z")
> [@Buchanan](#): > > Absolutely false. Immigrants prior to 1965 heiled predominantly from countries whose demographics have historically had mean IQs of 100. After the 1965 Immigration Law change and by about ~1970, there are few top-5 sending nations whose average IQs are above 87. This is a formula for disaster. Why? Big waves of immigrants are **always** ignorant and **always** cause crime and trouble – and **all** of them eventually get assimilated and enrich our country, and their kids raised here are, holding SES constant, no dumber than Old Americans’ kids. Clearly it’s not a genetic problem. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2011, 8:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-democrats-want-illegal-alien-votes/606195/150 "2011-12-18T20:01:05Z")
> [@Zedd](#): > > Because they are having money taken out of their paycheck and deposited into the federal treasury does not make it ‘them being taxed’. The government does not impose an ipso facto tax on an illegal alien, though it is gaining one de facto, because the government (legally) does not allow that person to work to get money to pay the tax. _Ipso facto_ does not mean what you think it does, and neither does “being taxed.” [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-democrats-want-illegal-alien-votes/606195.md?page=7)