# Do Donald Trump and Charles Manson suffer from similar personality disorders? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [June 12, 2018, 4:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-donald-trump-and-charles-manson-suffer-from-similar-personality-disorders/815976 "2018-06-12T16:45:05Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![septimus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/septimus/32/410_2.png) [@septimus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/septimus)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2018, 3:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-donald-trump-and-charles-manson-suffer-from-similar-personality-disorders/815976/21 "2018-06-13T15:28:04Z")
> [@puddleglum](#): > > … You could have produced the same list with Obama a couple years ago and had many people on the right agreeing with you… 😕 You didn’t watch the video did you? Read the Trump speech at the 5:35 mark. Did Obama ever talk like this? I think even Sarah Palin was more focused than this. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2018, 6:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-donald-trump-and-charles-manson-suffer-from-similar-personality-disorders/815976/22 "2018-06-13T18:26:53Z")
> [@running\_coach](#): > > If it walks like a duck and quacks like a duck, in all likelihood, it’s a fucking duck. > > His doctor isn’t even his doctor. More like a stenographer. That’s true for diagnosing duck-dom, but not true for diagnosing any of the DSM-V disorders. Did you not know this? ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2018, 6:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-donald-trump-and-charles-manson-suffer-from-similar-personality-disorders/815976/23 "2018-06-13T18:28:46Z")
> [@DavidwithanR](#): > > Actually, no. Not if you restricted people to the facts, anyway. Obama is a power-hungry and opportunistic guy, probably with some traits of narcissism, but not a blatantly-obvious textbook case of Narcissistic Personality Disorder. > > And you don’t have to be a liberal to know this about Trump; just ask the numerous prominent Republican or conservative figures who have worked for Trump and who he has treated badly. Their reports on “What was it like?” will be pretty easy to match up with the descriptions in the DSM. Can you provide the cite to the DSM that supports a diagnosis on that kind of evidence? ---
**Author:** ![Moriarty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/moriarty/32/49_2.png) [@Moriarty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Moriarty)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2018, 6:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-donald-trump-and-charles-manson-suffer-from-similar-personality-disorders/815976/24 "2018-06-13T18:55:39Z")
> [@Lorne\_Armstrong](#): > > Manson was a product of the prison system. You might be able to argue that he had a Antisocial Personality Disorder. To be honest, I don’t believe half of the things I’ve heard about Manson. He ordered those murders to start a race war? The Beatles were prophets who were mentioned in the Bible? It all sounds ridiculous. If Manson had believed all that then he had some type of psychotic episode that made him lose a grasp of reality. > > A prison official who worked with Manson for many years wrote that Charlie turned it on when only when he had an audience. I don’t think Manson had a personality disorder. In my opinion, his behavior was a result of not being able to function outside of prisons. In the book Helter Skelter, it’s reported that Manson used to take a much lower dose of LSD than his followers when they would discuss his fanciful notions of a race war and his supremacy. So I agree that it was psychotic bullshit intend to control and manipulate other people, more than a reflection of his own belief system. ---
**Author:** ![pool](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pool/32/4152_2.png) [@pool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pool)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2018, 8:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-donald-trump-and-charles-manson-suffer-from-similar-personality-disorders/815976/25 "2018-06-13T20:24:12Z")
Charles Manson was diagnosed with Schizophrenia and Paranoid Delusional Disorder. The Schizophrenia seems evident in a lot of audio recordings of him I’ve heard he does that word salad thing a lot and can’t always maintain a coherent thought process. It might explain some of his more narcissistic traits too like maybe he thought he had powers or was on some higher plain of existence or something. ---
**Author:** ![spifflog](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/c5a1d2/32.png) [@spifflog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/spifflog)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2018, 8:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-donald-trump-and-charles-manson-suffer-from-similar-personality-disorders/815976/26 "2018-06-13T20:54:18Z")
I understand this is more of an effort to crap on Trump than anything, but frankly the OP’s description sound’s like most people who run for national public office. ---
**Author:** ![Steve\_MB](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steve_mb/32/5339_2.png) [@Steve\_MB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steve_MB)\ **Post date:** [June 14, 2018, 2:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-donald-trump-and-charles-manson-suffer-from-similar-personality-disorders/815976/27 "2018-06-14T14:10:07Z")
Manson seems to have felt less need to declare his greatness to the world, but maybe that’s just an effect of the less immersive communication technologies of his era. ---
**Author:** ![puddleglum](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/puddleglum/32/137_2.png) [@puddleglum](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/puddleglum)\ **Post date:** [June 14, 2018, 5:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-donald-trump-and-charles-manson-suffer-from-similar-personality-disorders/815976/28 "2018-06-14T17:00:01Z")
> [@septimus](#): > > 😕 You didn’t watch the video did you? Read the Trump speech at the 5:35 mark. Did Obama ever talk like this? I think even Sarah Palin was more focused than this. [Obama did talk like that.](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4XuItt6iuMc) ---
**Author:** ![septimus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/septimus/32/410_2.png) [@septimus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/septimus)\ **Post date:** [June 14, 2018, 7:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-donald-trump-and-charles-manson-suffer-from-similar-personality-disorders/815976/29 "2018-06-14T19:15:05Z")
> [@puddleglum](#): > > [Obama did talk like that.](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4XuItt6iuMc) Nonsense. Your claim is unusually confused. Slipping up in the middle of a sentence, regardless of how “bad” or “deficient” you want to pretend that is, is a completely different pathology from the the aimless rambling exhibited by Trump or, perhaps less often, by Manson. ---
**Author:** ![DavidwithanR](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/3bc359/32.png) [@DavidwithanR](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DavidwithanR)\ **Post date:** [June 14, 2018, 8:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-donald-trump-and-charles-manson-suffer-from-similar-personality-disorders/815976/30 "2018-06-14T20:16:41Z")
> [@spifflog](#): > > I understand this is more of an effort to crap on Trump than anything, but frankly the OP’s description sound’s like most people who run for national public office. Lots of politicians have narcissistic traits. Lots of politicians are assholes. Maybe even most. And trying to match up Trump and Manson seems like a silly stunt to me - they’re not all that similar. But certainly not all national-level politicians have blindingly obvious personality disorders, and Trump does. Trump is not just an asshole, he indeed has a mental disorder. Clinton - both of them actually - absolute assholes, I would not be happy to meet them, but neither one acts like they have a mental disorder. W Bush didn’t act like Trump. Embarrassing and not very bright, but not blatant NPD. Reagan - I know a lot less of him because I was a lot younger, but I certainly don’t remember him creating chaos firing his supposedly trusted advisors left and right, consistently treating people like shit, and so on. Of course I don’t know these people’s private lives, so I could be wrong about some of them - but it’s awfully hard to be wrong about Trump because he’s SO obvious. I pity his family. And his country. ---
**Author:** ![DavidwithanR](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/3bc359/32.png) [@DavidwithanR](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DavidwithanR)\ **Post date:** [June 14, 2018, 8:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-donald-trump-and-charles-manson-suffer-from-similar-personality-disorders/815976/31 "2018-06-14T20:23:38Z")
Trump isn’t truly incoherent - he makes up shit as a strategy to distract people. Manson - was he faking or was he really delusional - I have no idea. ---
**Author:** ![Quartz](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quartz/32/267_2.png) [@Quartz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Quartz)\ **Post date:** [June 14, 2018, 10:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-donald-trump-and-charles-manson-suffer-from-similar-personality-disorders/815976/32 "2018-06-14T22:19:15Z")
> [@septimus](#): > > While Donald Trump and Charles Manson … You do realise that threads like this make Trump look good and his opposition look stupid, don’t you? ---
**Author:** ![DavidwithanR](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/3bc359/32.png) [@DavidwithanR](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DavidwithanR)\ **Post date:** [June 14, 2018, 10:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-donald-trump-and-charles-manson-suffer-from-similar-personality-disorders/815976/33 "2018-06-14T22:38:31Z")
> [@Quartz](#): > > You do realise that threads like this make Trump look good and his opposition look stupid, don’t you? It certainly makes one member of his opposition look like a fool, and embarrasses the rest. I don’t think it makes Trump look any better. ---
**Author:** ![Lorne\_Armstrong](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/87869e/32.png) [@Lorne\_Armstrong](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lorne_Armstrong)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2018, 9:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-donald-trump-and-charles-manson-suffer-from-similar-personality-disorders/815976/34 "2018-06-16T09:41:51Z")
> [@pool](#): > > Charles Manson was diagnosed with Schizophrenia and Paranoid Delusional Disorder. The Schizophrenia seems evident in a lot of audio recordings of him I’ve heard he does that word salad thing a lot and can’t always maintain a coherent thought process. It might explain some of his more narcissistic traits too like maybe he thought he had powers or was on some higher plain of existence or something. Do you have a cite for this? ---
**Author:** ![kaylasdad99](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kaylasdad99/32/3398_2.png) [@kaylasdad99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kaylasdad99)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2018, 11:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-donald-trump-and-charles-manson-suffer-from-similar-personality-disorders/815976/35 "2018-06-16T11:11:12Z")
> [@D\_Anconia](#): > > How do YOU know he’s a sociopath, are suffers from narcissistic personality disorder? > > You’re not his doctor. > [@running\_coach](#): > > If it walks like a duck and quacks like a duck, in all likelihood, it’s a fucking duck. > > His doctor isn’t even his doctor. More like a stenographer. Y’know **D’Anconia** has a point. We really shouldn’t jump to the conclusion that Trump suffers from NPD. I mean from the looks of things, he enjoys the hell out of it. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2018, 11:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-donald-trump-and-charles-manson-suffer-from-similar-personality-disorders/815976/36 "2018-06-16T11:32:37Z")
This comparison is grossly unfair. Manson had personal charm. ---
**Author:** ![Whack-a-Mole](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/whack-a-mole/32/141_2.png) [@Whack-a-Mole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Whack-a-Mole)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2018, 1:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-donald-trump-and-charles-manson-suffer-from-similar-personality-disorders/815976/37 "2018-06-16T13:12:00Z")
> [@D\_Anconia](#): > > How do YOU know he’s a sociopath, are suffers from narcissistic personality disorder? > > You’re not his doctor. Not sure about him being a sociopath although he does seem to lack a conscience and at the least enjoys discomfiting others. Is that enough to be a sociopath? I don’t know. His narcissism is pretty well established and I doubt there is anyone who is not on Trump’s payroll who thinks otherwise (and those on the payroll probably also think it but won’t say so publicly). The final verdict can’t be done without a formal, clinical diagnosis that Trump will never submit to but we all have gobs of evidence of his behavior and that diagnosis fits him like a glove. And it is not just laymen guessing either: > [@](#): > > Professional psychiatrists, and psychotherapists, are loath to go on record saying that Trump has a psychiatric disorder on the premise that one cannot do a diagnosis without an office visit and most narcissists are quite unlikely to recognize that they have a problem and to schedule an appointment. > > Fortunately, the DSM is written so clearly, and so simply, that the diagnosis is transparent. > > According to DSM-5, individuals with NPD have most (at least five) or all of the symptoms listed below (generally without commensurate qualities or accomplishments). > > 1 Grandiosity with expectations of superior treatment by others. > > 2 Fixated on fantasies of power, success, intelligence, attractiveness, etc. > > 3 Self-perception of being unique, superior, and associated with high-status people and institutions. > > 4 Needing constant admiration from others. > > 5 Sense of entitlement to special treatment and to obedience from others. > > 6 Exploitative of others to achieve personal gain. > > 7 Unwilling to empathize with others’ feelings, wishes, or needs. > > 8 Intensely jealous of others and the belief that others are equally jealous of them. > > 9 Pompous and arrogant demeanor. > > \ > > For those that are clearly relevant, he checks out on all symptoms, it seems. According to DSM criteria, Donald Trump suffers from narcissistic personality disorder. > > SOURCE: [Does Trump Suffer from Narcissistic Personality Disorder? | Psychology Today](https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/the-human-beast/201608/does-trump-suffer-narcissistic-personality-disorder) - [Donald Trump’s malignant narcissism is toxic](https://www.usatoday.com/story/opinion/2017/05/04/trump-malignant-narcissistic-disorder-psychiatry-column/101243584/): Psychologist - [The Mind of Donald Trump](https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2016/06/the-mind-of-donald-trump/480771/): Narcissism, disagreeableness, grandiosity—a psychologist investigates how Trump’s extraordinary personality might shape his possible presidency. - [Trump’s Mental Health](https://www.rollingstone.com/politics/features/trump-and-the-pathology-of-narcissism-w474896): Is Pathological Narcissism the Key to Trump’s Behavior? (Diagnosing the president was off-limits to experts – until a textbook case entered the White House) - [Is Donald Trump Actually a Narcissist?](https://www.vanityfair.com/news/2015/11/donald-trump-narcissism-therapists) Therapists Weigh In! Ask yourself a question. If Trump went in for a formal diagnosis from a truly neutral expert in psychology and you had to bet $10,000 on the outcome which way do you think the diagnosis would go? ---
**Author:** ![DavidwithanR](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/3bc359/32.png) [@DavidwithanR](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DavidwithanR)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2018, 2:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-donald-trump-and-charles-manson-suffer-from-similar-personality-disorders/815976/38 "2018-06-16T14:16:23Z")
As far as I know, a person with NPD has a conscience and does it anyway. ---
**Author:** ![septimus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/septimus/32/410_2.png) [@septimus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/septimus)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2018, 2:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-donald-trump-and-charles-manson-suffer-from-similar-personality-disorders/815976/39 "2018-06-30T14:38:40Z")
[This linguistics professor](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=phsU1vVHOQI) describes Trump’s speech as unadorned, pre-literate, showing clinical narcissism, lack of schooling and, surprisingly for an old man, adolescence. The Professor describes Trump’s utterances as “talk rather than speech.” ---
**Author:** ![pool](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pool/32/4152_2.png) [@pool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pool)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2018, 2:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-donald-trump-and-charles-manson-suffer-from-similar-personality-disorders/815976/40 "2018-06-30T14:47:29Z")
The linguistics professor thing is interesting, I can definitely see why he’d use the term pre-literate, that’s as a good a term as any to describe it. I think I mentioned this in another thread but I’ll say it again, what amazes me as even people grow older and maybe they slow down a little in their mental sharpness they still usually retain their vocabulary and even continue to add to it, in a best case scenario he dumbs things down for his target audience, but the sad truth is he really seems to talk that way, he sounds like a guy that has never read a book in his life and can only express himself in terse, monosyllabic, half-baked brain farts. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-donald-trump-and-charles-manson-suffer-from-similar-personality-disorders/815976.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-donald-trump-and-charles-manson-suffer-from-similar-personality-disorders/815976.md?page=3)