Do Europeans have different attitudes than Americans about the sanctity of property?

Be my guest. What did you like about it?

physically handicapped female gun owner here. Someone breaks into my house when i am in it, they leave immediately or die. Plain and simple. I can not risk bodily injury and I have no lesser means of defense.

I live out in the country, and I have put in emergency calls for police and it took almost 15 minutes to get a state trooper here [we have no local officers in my community] and in a nonemergency call it took almost 3 hours. You can die in 15 minutes. Them or me? me. No contest. I dont answer the door if I am alone, and not expecting anybody. I make no attempt to hide when I am at home so it is very obvious that I am ignoring the door. My friends know enough to call ahead.

The State-Less Iceland part… we still pretend to be rebels.

Spot on, at least for me.

You are expected to defend yourself with minimal force in Spain, too.

Figured as much (doper name + location = Icelander)

Iceland having no “state” from Landnám to joining Norway is just such a basic (and fascinating) fact for me as an historian that I assumed you had an additonal reason for liking it. We use Iceland as a basic model when discussing states and state-formation, since you guys are more or less the only people whose “stateless” period took place in the age of literacy - under the public eye, so to speak.

  • Septima, Føroyingur. You left, we stayed. You really do seem to like that rebel image :smiley:

There actually is an additional part. I´ve lived in Sweden for quite a few years (back on the isle now though) and its´interesting to see the differences between the cultures. Swedes are more likely to take a “hands off approach”, expecting someone else (the State) to fix things, while Icelandics usually jump straight into the mess and try to work it out themselves.

I´ve just never heard it put the way you put it. Which is why I liked that sentence.

Just to be clear regarding the op premise, in the US it is a local or state issue and not a Federal issue. My state recently changed it’s laws regarding the premise to use deadly force. The proof no longer lies on shooter to prove they were not in harms way during a break-in. It’s now assumed unless proven otherwise.

Before that was changed it was up to local laws. In my city it was acceptable to shoot an intruder breaking in. We had a case 5 years ago where teenagers tried to force their way into a house starting with a cement block through the door. The owner gave a warning, which was ignored, and one of the attackers left in a body bag. If this had occured on the other side of the state they would have thrown the book at the homeowner.

So to be clear, it’s not a federal mandate either way.

The so-called Castle Doctrine. Here in Minnesota we adopted a weaker castle law just a year or so ago. Before that, you had a duty to retreat from any illegal intruder.

That was assinine in many situations; such as my current apartment or my previous house, both of which lack any avenue of escape barring the idea of busting out a screen and jumping from the second floor. Hell, I’m in my bedroom with a gun I’m expert at using. Fuck all if I’m retreating anywhere.

On OP: It’s old and trite, but the idea of Subject or Citizen does have it’s merits in discussions of this type.

Arkansas, United States. There is a “back to the wall” law. You are expected to have retreated as far as you can before you shoot an intruder. Fine print: your back is to the wall anywhere inside your house.
What is “minimum force”? You shoot the guy in the leg and he shoots back? :slight_smile:

Remember that the US is not one hegemonious mass, either. There are a lot of different states (57 at last count) with different attitudes and laws. Even then, attitudes within states vary greatly.

Really? Fifty seven states? There’s still only fifty stars on my flag. I must have missed when those other seven states were admitted to the Union.

But you’re right about differences within states, especially when there’s a great big city in a state with a lot of rural space, like New York, California or Illinois. The Big City people tend to rule their place like it’s an independent state, or as if it IS the entire state, forgetting the rights and opinions of Joe Anyone out in the sticks.

We get the same battle here in Minneapolis, with 3 million in the metro area and another 2 million people in the entire rest of the state. Fortunately, there is enough diversion of interests to balance out most of the city-centric crap.

We’re not confusing “hegemonious” (whatever garius meant by that) with “homogeneous”, are we?

Nah, Usram, we’re just misspelling “homogeneous” as “hegemonious” all over the place. And from the point of view of Europeans, America looks a lot like… one of those muffins with chocolate chunks, or a fruitcake. Yes, there’s parts in it that are different from other parts; yes, there are lots of different parts. But any of those parts is so bloody larger than the chunks in Europe, you know? And the movies/TV make it sound a lot more homogeneous than it is except when the “this is a special place” is a part of the movie; Steel Magnolias maybe can only happen in the South, but 99% of the cops or docs or action or lawyer stuff out there can happen in Anyplace, Anystate (big town vs small town, tops).

Somebody hear something?

The USA does not have an equivalent of the nordic Everyman’s Right. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Freedom_to_roam

No doubt referrring to Obama’s Alice-in-Wonderland-like ability to visit 7 more states than there are.

Properly relegated to the who-gives-a-shit channel within days at the time, though the lapel pin is funny.

Why do people always say this? Those of us who are of European ancestry have the same history you do, up to the time our ancestors left Europe and came over here. It isn’t like we were created in 1776 as cave people.

I think JoseB was acknowledging that European history is not necessarily anything to be proud of, and cautioning that Americans might likewise, in time, have reason to be less than proud of their heritage.

I think it’s interesting that many American suburban homes do not have enclosed backyards or frontyards where here they are pretty much standard.

What Usram said! It appears sometimes as if America is seen as having been given a big “blank sheet of paper” to use in order to write its own history. That’s very nice. However, be careful, because 2000 years from now, who knows what will end up been written there!