# Do Europeans think Israeli moral leverage re the Holocaust is about played out? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [June 29, 2003, 6:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-europeans-think-israeli-moral-leverage-re-the-holocaust-is-about-played-out/185195 "2003-06-29T18:45:38Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 3\ **Page:** 11
**Author:** ![Alessan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alessan/32/465_2.png) [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2003, 1:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-europeans-think-israeli-moral-leverage-re-the-holocaust-is-about-played-out/185195/201 "2003-07-16T13:33:38Z")
Amira Hass is also one of the few remaining Jewish members of the Israeli Communist Party. Take that as you will. ---
**Author:** ![OliverH](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/278dde/32.png) [@OliverH](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/OliverH)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2003, 6:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-europeans-think-israeli-moral-leverage-re-the-holocaust-is-about-played-out/185195/202 "2003-07-21T18:19:48Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Noone Special \* > \*\*This did happen WAY back (after the Oslo accords, in the 1990’s). Please show me where the PA has actively “engaged in armed conflicts with militants” at any time since September 2000. I must have failed to see it from where I am standing. Maybe it’s the smoke (from the suicide bombs) getting in my eyes. Sorry, I can’t help ranting just a little. \*\* There were major clashes in Gaza after the assassination of a senior security official last October ( [http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/middle\_east/2307021.stm](http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/middle_east/2307021.stm) ) In early 2002, the leader of the PFLP was arrested by Palestinian Security. ( [http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/middle\_east/1762654.stm](http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/middle_east/1762654.stm)) albeit without military conflict. Late in 2001, a leader of Islamic Jihad was arrested after a gun battle in Gaza. And I don’t think that pointing at time when every palestinian security officer had to care most for not being shot by the IDF when it was running rampant all across the Palestinian territories last year is particularly meaningful. > [@](#): > > \*\* > Also, you earlier mentioned Amira Hass as an example of an Israeli getting along with Palestinians but not with other Israelis. You fail to mention that Amira Hass is to Israeli Journalism roughly what Salman Rushdi is to Islamic Literature. I.e., very interesting, often (but far from always) right in the face of much chauvinism, but WAY controversial in both her topics and the treatment of them. And having read her, I’d have to say that (perhaps unlike Rushdi) she seems to enjoy the role of _enfante terrible_ immensely. She also has a major daily newspaper platform to write upon. Not exactly an example of your average Middle-of-the-Roader being kicked in the teeth by the Establishment. > \*\* I mentioned her as an example of someone having one-on-one contact with Palestinians, something DSeid called necessary. And I pointed to the fact that she lived among Palestinians as suggesting it was possible for an israeli Jew to do so without being murdered, and that the clashed with Settlers have, perhaps, other reasons than murderous antisemitism. Not the least, however, there’s plenty of other Israeli journalists who do not share the ideas posted by others here. I refer you to Arnon Regular’s Q&A on Palestinian Politics at [http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/pages/QA.jhtml?qaNo=53&m=53](http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/pages/QA.jhtml?qaNo=53&m=53) ---
**Author:** ![Noone\_Special](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/noone_special/32/2863_2.png) [@Noone\_Special](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Noone_Special)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2003, 8:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-europeans-think-israeli-moral-leverage-re-the-holocaust-is-about-played-out/185195/203 "2003-07-21T20:30:45Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by OliverH \* > \*\* > > There were major clashes in Gaza after the assassination of a senior security official last October ( [http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/middle\_east/2307021.stm](http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/middle_east/2307021.stm) ) > \*\* from Same BBC link: > [@](#): > > Gun battles left at least two people dead in Gaza City after about 20 armed militants **posing as Palestinian policemen** ambushed and killed a senior security official. > > (bolding mine) So - not a case of Palestinian Authority cracking down on terrorists. > [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by OliverH \* > \*\* > > In early 2002, the leader of the PFLP was arrested by Palestinian Security. ( [http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/middle\_east/1762654.stm](http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/middle_east/1762654.stm)) > albeit without military conflict. > \*\* This refers to the arrest of Mr Saadat, who participated in the murder of Israeli Minister Rehavam Ze’evi. He was then put under international “watch” in a hotel in Jericho, along with the other members of the group. and I believe he was later released. His “arrest” was ONLY meant to avoid Israel attempting to put their hands on Mr. Saadat, not to do any kind of real justice. > [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by OliverH \* > \*\* > > I mentioned [Amira Hass] as an example of someone having one-on-one contact with Palestinians, something DSeid called necessary. And I pointed to the fact that she lived among Palestinians as suggesting it was possible for an israeli Jew to do so without being murdered, and that the clashed with Settlers have, perhaps, other reasons than murderous antisemitism. > \*\* It’s easy enough to gain access and acceptance to a group if you come out saying, essentially, “I think my side is wrong and your side is right, and I’ll report it that way”. Note: I am **not** saying this is treason. It is a **legitimate** POV to say “My country is wrong”. But it doesn’t quite qualify as “living with the enemy” as you are trying to portray it. E.g., Peter Arnett in Iraq (certainly in part II, probably in part I) [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-europeans-think-israeli-moral-leverage-re-the-holocaust-is-about-played-out/185195.md?page=10)