# Do evil people have friends? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [February 17, 2003, 3:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-evil-people-have-friends/155564 "2003-02-17T03:40:40Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Forbin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/5e9695/32.png) [@Forbin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Forbin)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2003, 1:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-evil-people-have-friends/155564/21 "2003-02-18T01:47:11Z")
I thought of Leonard Lake and Charles Ng. Some evil people have friends, many don’t. ---
**Author:** ![mangeorge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/d78d45/32.png) [@mangeorge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mangeorge)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2003, 1:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-evil-people-have-friends/155564/22 "2003-02-18T01:47:48Z")
Yeah, **Jinx** , _especially_them. You _know_ my cousin, huh? ---
**Author:** ![Polycarp](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/82dd89/32.png) [@Polycarp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Polycarp)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2003, 1:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-evil-people-have-friends/155564/23 "2003-02-18T01:53:43Z")
Not quite the definition of “evil” that seems to be assumed here, but definitely less than totally moral, was the life of a political boss. Himself an intensely moral man, Truman was close friends with and supported for most of his career by the Pendergast family of Kansas City. Insight into their personalities and their relationship with him is contained in McCullough’s biography of him. And the net result seems to be that they were engaged in Realpolitik and did not see it as evildoing but as making money for themselves while performing needed public services, and were very friendly and kindly to most people with whom they came in contact – their political enemies to one side. ---
**Author:** ![tmwster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/57b2e6/32.png) [@tmwster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tmwster)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2003, 2:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-evil-people-have-friends/155564/24 "2003-02-18T02:09:50Z")
The author Ann Rule was friends with Ted Bundy before he was discovered to be a serial killer. They worked together answering a rape crisis hotline or suicide hotline or something. She thought very highly of him, and was shocked to discover he was a sociopath. He apparently was able to turn the charm on and snow people completely. ---
**Author:** ![Truth\_Seeker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/5fc32e/32.png) [@Truth\_Seeker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Truth_Seeker)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2003, 2:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-evil-people-have-friends/155564/25 "2003-02-18T02:24:45Z")
Truly “evil” people probably do not have friends, at least as we understand the term. People like Hitler and Stalin – and Hussein – are often classic “psychopaths.” Psychopaths lack empathy and often perceive others only as tools to be used to get what they want that lack any intrinsic value. It is not so much that psychopaths disregard the rights of others. Rather, true psychopaths simply cannot conceive that those rights exist. Muderous dictators often have this personality disorder. The lack of empathy and the willingness to use and discard others, even long-term associates, are the very qualities that get them to the top. While these people do have associates and families, they don’t bond with others the way normal people do. > [@](#): > > \*\*He apparently was able to turn the charm on and snow people completely. \*\* This is a classic symptom of psychopathy. They can be extremely charming and manipulative when they need to be. Psychpaths look at life as sort of a giant videogame. You go through the motions to get what you want, but it doesn’t really mean anything. Being “friendly” is a learned response associated with achieving a goal rather than an emotional one. ---
**Author:** ![mangeorge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/d78d45/32.png) [@mangeorge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mangeorge)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2003, 2:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-evil-people-have-friends/155564/26 "2003-02-18T02:56:14Z")
That’s what I’m talking about, **Truth Seeker**. I wasn’t totally kidding about my cousin. Each of may well have known a psychopath or two, I think. They don’t _all_ turn out to br murderous, do they? Only if it suits their needs, as I understand it. Some become quite successful in the ‘normal’ world I bet. As long as it doesn’t require any real work, or sacrifice, on their part. I wonder how two well matched psychopaths would get along. ---
**Author:** ![Trigonal\_Planar](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/0ea827/32.png) [@Trigonal\_Planar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Trigonal_Planar)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2003, 3:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-evil-people-have-friends/155564/27 "2003-02-18T03:09:52Z")
I’ve also assumed the situation to be like what Truth Slayer said - they suffer from psychopathy and likely do not have “friends” in the sense that normal people would - just people they keep around them at times to advance their standing. ---
**Author:** ![Boyo\_Jim](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/87869e/32.png) [@Boyo\_Jim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Boyo_Jim)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2003, 3:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-evil-people-have-friends/155564/28 "2003-02-18T03:12:58Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by mangeorge \* > **…As long as it doesn’t require any real work, or sacrifice, on their part…** IANA shrink, but I’ve never heard that psychpoths or sociopaths are lazy. They may work extremely hard to achieve their goals. They may sacrifice some of their own goals to achieve others. They just won’t do any of these things on behalf on anyone else. ---
**Author:** ![JohnnyV](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/b4bc9f/32.png) [@JohnnyV](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JohnnyV)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2003, 6:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-evil-people-have-friends/155564/29 "2003-02-18T06:08:47Z")
\>\>\>\> People like Hitler and Stalin – and Hussein – are often classic “psychopaths.” Psychopaths lack empathy and often perceive others only as tools to be used to get what they want that lack any intrinsic value. To call them psychopathic I think could imply a lack of understanding of possibly the most important part of leadership. Leaders make decisions daily, and these decisions touch the lives of millions. They will cause much pain, suffering, and death sometimes, whether through faulty decision making or through the nature of the beast. A leader can’t get caught up worrying over the lives of two men, they were entrusted with the welfare of two million. For instance: Was Hitler a psychopath? He believed in the welfare and the rights of the German people and worked for that. The millions killed in the process? They weren’t actually people to him. They were not German. He was the farmer shooting the deer to feed his family and we are PETA trieing to write him off as criminally insane without wondering why he wanted to kill the deer. I’m not specifically defending Hitler or Naziism before someone tries to change the subject, I’m making the point that its far to easy to just say “oh, well he was crazy” by way of explanation for the actions of someone we disagree with, but the very lack of understanding of this mindset is what gives us the inability to fight it off. ---
**Author:** ![Truth\_Seeker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/5fc32e/32.png) [@Truth\_Seeker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Truth_Seeker)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2003, 6:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-evil-people-have-friends/155564/30 "2003-02-18T18:56:42Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Trigonal Planar \* > \*\*I’ve also assumed the situation to be like what Truth Slayer said \*\* Truth Slayer? I haven’t clue one as to what your problem is with me but it’s probably not wise to air it in GQ. > [@](#): > > _originally posted by JohnnyV_ > \*\*To call them psychopathic I think could imply a lack of understanding of possibly the most important part of leadership. Leaders make decisions daily, and these decisions touch the lives of millions. \*\* Well there are many variations and grades of psychopathy. It’s quite likely that certain traits are actually beneficial in a leader. Certainly, they are not incompatible with leadership. Having said that, I think you’re confusing true psychopathy with exercising judgment in making extremely difficult decisions. A true psychopath has no difficulty in making difficult decisions that may result in the death of millions because he or she does not recognize that those lives have any independant value. “But your plan will kill millions of people!” “Yes, and?” > [@](#): > > \*\*He believed in the welfare and the rights of the German people and worked for that. \*\* Utterly false. Hitler used the German people to effect his ends. He didn’t care one whit about German death and suffering or anyone else’s. Look at his insistence that Germany fight to the death even after it was abundantly clear that the war was lost and contrast it with Hirohito’s insistence on surrender in the face of opposition by his generals. ---
**Author:** ![Lissa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/85f322/32.png) [@Lissa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lissa)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2003, 7:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-evil-people-have-friends/155564/31 "2003-02-18T19:43:48Z")
A fellow I know works in a prison, and some of the inmates, from his descriptions are truly evil people. (The only difference is that they’re not in a position of power.) Child molesters, murderers, rapists . . . They have plenty of friends; they get visits, letters, and phone calls. It’s really amazing the loyalty that some of their friends display. They hotly defend the inmate, threaten to sue and verbally abuse any staff member they feel is “picking” on their friend. Even when the man is as guilty as sin, they excuse his actions, and support him fully. ---
**Author:** ![Trigonal\_Planar](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/0ea827/32.png) [@Trigonal\_Planar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Trigonal_Planar)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2003, 7:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-evil-people-have-friends/155564/32 "2003-02-18T19:49:11Z")
Sorry, there’s a Truth Slayer on another board I post at. Anyway, what I’d really like to know is if Hitler had any Jewish friends. You’d think somewhere along his line of friends one of them would be Jewish. ---
**Author:** ![Measure\_for\_Measure](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/measure_for_measure/32/557_2.png) [@Measure\_for\_Measure](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Measure_for_Measure)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2003, 8:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-evil-people-have-friends/155564/33 "2003-02-19T08:02:09Z")
All these evil dictators are politicians to one extent or another. Politicians tend to have decent social skills. So, yeah, they had friends. Or at least sycophants. ---
**Author:** ![mswas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e99b99/32.png) [@mswas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mswas)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2003, 8:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-evil-people-have-friends/155564/34 "2003-02-19T08:37:21Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by mangeorge \* > \*\*To my surprise I found that sunday’s _Parade_ magazine ran an article, with pictures ;), of the “10 Worst Living Dictators”. I must be sidekick. > I tried to link to it, but for some reason the article isn’t on their website. > So here they are, sans details and pictures; > [list=1] > [1]Kim Jong Il, North Korea. > [2]King Fahd and Crown Prince Abdullah, Saudi Arabia. > [3]Saddam Hussein, Iraq. > [4]Charles Taylor, Liberia. > [5]Than Shwe, Burma. > [6]Teodoro Obiang Nguema, Equatorial Guinea. > [7]Saparmurad Niyazov, Turkmenistan. > [8]Muammar Al-Qaddafi, Libya. > [9]Fidel Castro, Cuba. > and > [10]Alexander Lukashenko, Belarus > [/list=1] > \*\* I have a friend who claims to know Charles Taylor’s son. He went to school with him. He said the kid quit school to go back to Liberia and be a gangster with his Dad. I tend to believe him only because he’s the kind of guy that leads an interesting enough life that he doesn’t need to make shit up. This thread affirms in my mind the belief that the idea of an “evil person” is one of the most narrow minded concepts in existance. I mean really. You can claim ANYONE is evil if you don’t like what they do, and odds are they had friends. In certain cases, I’d be willing to bet that people in those positions had trouble with trust, and that probably limited the level of friendships they were capable of maintaining. But the idea of an evil person is just so silly, whether you look at it in retrospect, or head on. Sure Saddam Hussein is probably not qualified to run a nation, given his proclivities for mass slaughter. However, I wouldn’t claim him as evil, I think to do so would be silly. As I told my friend the other day, “There are no such things as good guys or bad guy’s life is not a video game, comic book or movie.” Erek ---
**Author:** ![Rie](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/a6a055/32.png) [@Rie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rie)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2003, 12:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-evil-people-have-friends/155564/35 "2003-02-19T12:55:28Z")
I can only speak for myself and yes, I do have a few friends. And by “friends” I mean people who cower in my presence. It’s oddly comforting.😃 ---
**Author:** ![RealityChuck](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/realitychuck/32/195_2.png) [@RealityChuck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RealityChuck)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2003, 1:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-evil-people-have-friends/155564/36 "2003-02-19T13:53:11Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Trigonal Planar \* > \*\*Sorry, there’s a Truth Slayer on another board I post at. > Anyway, what I’d really like to know is if Hitler had any Jewish friends. You’d think somewhere along his line of friends one of them would be Jewish. \*\* I don’t know about friends, but I do know he ordered the Nazis in Austria to leave a particular Jewish doctor alone because the doctor had worked to save Hitler’s mother’s life. In a sense, Hitler’s antisemitism was just another type of opportunism. As for his friends, there was always Ernst “Putzi” Hanfstaengl, who was friends with Hitler in the early days (he kept telling Adoph that he should really grow a good handlbar mustache instead of that ridiculous postage stamp). Oddly enough, Hanfstaengl was also a friend of Franklin Roosevelt. Putzi drew away from Hitler as the war wore on – internment camps, plus the realization that Germany couldn’t win, will do that to you – but after the war was often quoted on aspects of Hitler from a friend. ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2003, 2:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-evil-people-have-friends/155564/37 "2003-02-19T14:59:10Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Boyo Jim \* > \*\* > In general I’d say that evil people are not evil 100% of the time, and in their off hours may form friendships. \*\* Off hours? Would that be after a long tiring day of burning Jews, Gypsies and Homosexuals in ovens? ---
**Author:** ![Captain\_Amazing](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6de8d8/32.png) [@Captain\_Amazing](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Captain_Amazing)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2003, 3:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-evil-people-have-friends/155564/38 "2003-02-19T15:39:16Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by RealityChuck \* > \*\*I don’t know about friends, but I do know he ordered the Nazis in Austria to leave a particular Jewish doctor alone because the doctor had worked to save Hitler’s mother’s life. In a sense, Hitler’s antisemitism was just another type of opportunism. \*\* Well, or the doctor was just Hitler’s one “good Jew”. Himmler would complain that every German would agree that Jews were evil and had to be destroyed, but that everybody would come to him and say, “But this one Jew is different. He’s good, not like the rest” and they’d try to get their friend special benefits. ---
**Author:** ![Mothchunks](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/a587f6/32.png) [@Mothchunks](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mothchunks)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2003, 5:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-evil-people-have-friends/155564/39 "2003-02-19T17:47:29Z")
…resources. ---
**Author:** ![Boyo\_Jim](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/87869e/32.png) [@Boyo\_Jim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Boyo_Jim)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2003, 10:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-evil-people-have-friends/155564/40 "2003-02-19T22:57:59Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by carnivorousplant \* > \*\*Off hours? > Would that be after a long tiring day of burning Jews, Gypsies and Homosexuals in ovens? \*\* Exactly. I’d guess in Nazi Germany they’d say, “It’s Meuller time!” 🙂 In some sick way, it’d be really funny to see a Nazi beer commercial. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-evil-people-have-friends/155564.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-evil-people-have-friends/155564.md?page=3)