# Do ex-presidents still salute when they encounter uniformed members of the military? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [January 26, 2017, 6:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-ex-presidents-still-salute-when-they-encounter-uniformed-members-of-the-military/778247 "2017-01-26T18:49:56Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Whack-a-Mole](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/whack-a-mole/32/141_2.png) [@Whack-a-Mole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Whack-a-Mole)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2017, 6:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-ex-presidents-still-salute-when-they-encounter-uniformed-members-of-the-military/778247/1 "2017-01-26T18:49:56Z")
What is the protocol on this? I know that president Reagan started the tradition of saluting the military. I also know as CIC this is deemed permissible. The question is do ex-presidents still do it? Are they supposed to or not or is it discretionary? ---
**Author:** ![Bear\_Nenno](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bear_nenno/32/3358_2.png) [@Bear\_Nenno](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bear_Nenno)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2017, 7:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-ex-presidents-still-salute-when-they-encounter-uniformed-members-of-the-military/778247/2 "2017-01-26T19:09:41Z")
Civilians, including the POTUS are not required to salute. Soldiers are not required to salute ex-presidents. If a soldier and expresident happen to meet and exchange salutes, is completely discretionary on both ends. ---
**Author:** ![barbitu8](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/839c29/32.png) [@barbitu8](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/barbitu8)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2017, 7:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-ex-presidents-still-salute-when-they-encounter-uniformed-members-of-the-military/778247/3 "2017-01-26T19:31:51Z")
> [@Bear\_Nenno](#): > > Civilians, including the POTUS are not required to salute. Soldiers are not required to salute ex-presidents. If a soldier and expresident happen to meet and exchange salutes, is completely discretionary on both ends. I would think that as commander-in-chief, POTUS should salute and receive a return salute. ---
**Author:** ![cochrane](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cochrane/32/10441_2.png) [@cochrane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cochrane)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2017, 8:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-ex-presidents-still-salute-when-they-encounter-uniformed-members-of-the-military/778247/4 "2017-01-26T20:17:27Z")
> [@barbitu8](#): > > I would think that as commander-in-chief, POTUS should salute and receive a return salute. Doesn’t military protocol call for the reverse? A lower officer initiates a salute to his superior and holds it until it’s returned? However, we’re talking about an ex-President, not the current CinC. ---
**Author:** ![Alan\_Smithee](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/2acd7d/32.png) [@Alan\_Smithee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alan_Smithee)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2017, 8:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-ex-presidents-still-salute-when-they-encounter-uniformed-members-of-the-military/778247/5 "2017-01-26T20:29:17Z")
My understanding is that when an enlisted person encounters an officer or a lower-ranking officer encounters a higher-ranking officer in uniform, the enlisted person or lower-ranking officer is obliged to initiate a salute and hold it until it is acknowledged and returned by the (higher-ranked) officer. As a general rule, military people never salute non-military individuals, even high-ranking civilian personnel, foreign dignitaries, members of the DOD, the Secretary of Defence, etc. This is because the salute is specifically a military protocol recognizing a superior officer, but it also acknowledges that civilians are not trained in this protocol and don’t have formal insignia that trops can be trained to recognize. Suppose the Secretary of the Navy is touring a Marine base wearing (as you would expect) a business suit. He passes a group of grunts in uniform. Should he ones who recognize him by his face snap to attention and offer a salute? What should they do if, being a civilian, he does not properly return the salute? Do they stand there at attention until he leaves?while the rest of their friends (who don’t recognize him and don’t see an officer’s insignia) do what? What if it’s the Secretary of State? How far down the civilian chain of command? If the president initiates a salute, he is acting as a lower-ranking member of the military meeting a higher-ranked officer. If members of the military salute the president, it makes sense to acknowledge it and possibly to return the salute, but it’s not as simple as, “he’s the C-I-C so he should salute.” What is the protocol for members of the military In the presence of the president? Has it changed over time? ---
**Author:** ![Jack\_Batty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jack_batty/32/3201_2.png) [@Jack\_Batty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jack_Batty)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2017, 8:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-ex-presidents-still-salute-when-they-encounter-uniformed-members-of-the-military/778247/6 "2017-01-26T20:32:20Z")
What’s the protocol for, say, a retired general? Wouldn’t it be the same for a retired commander-in-chief? ---
**Author:** ![JHBoom](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/13edae/32.png) [@JHBoom](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JHBoom)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2017, 8:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-ex-presidents-still-salute-when-they-encounter-uniformed-members-of-the-military/778247/7 "2017-01-26T20:32:59Z")
> [@Whack-a-Mole](#): > > What is the protocol on this? > > I know that president Reagan started the tradition of saluting the military. I also know as CIC this is deemed permissible. > > The question is do ex-presidents still do it? Are they supposed to or not or is it discretionary? > [@barbitu8](#): > > I would think that as commander-in-chief, POTUS should salute and receive a return salute. That’s not the way military customs and courtesies work. The junior member renders the salute, and the senior member returns the salute. As POTUS is also the Commander-In-Chief, all US military personnel are junior to him/her, therefore the military member salutes POTUS, and POTUS returns the salute. In 20 years in two branches of service, I never heard about any protocol re: saluting a _former_ POTUS. However, if _I_ were in uniform, not in a formation or specific ceremony, and happened to be in the same location as a former POTUS, I’d probably default to the generic saluting guidance we received at Parris Island, after all the specific guidance: **“When in doubt, whip it out.”** [apologies for the innuendo]. ---
**Author:** ![outlierrn](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/outlierrn/32/3005_2.png) [@outlierrn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/outlierrn)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2017, 8:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-ex-presidents-still-salute-when-they-encounter-uniformed-members-of-the-military/778247/8 "2017-01-26T20:37:34Z")
At its core, the salute is a mark of obedience. ---
**Author:** ![Flyer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/flyer/32/7298_2.png) [@Flyer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Flyer)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2017, 8:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-ex-presidents-still-salute-when-they-encounter-uniformed-members-of-the-military/778247/9 "2017-01-26T20:54:55Z")
> [@outlierrn](#): > > At its core, the salute is a mark of obedience. No, it’s a mark of respect. Otherwise, there would be absolutely no point to the long and widespread tradition that a higher-ranking officer salutes a Medal of Honor recipient. ---
**Author:** ![outlierrn](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/outlierrn/32/3005_2.png) [@outlierrn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/outlierrn)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2017, 8:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-ex-presidents-still-salute-when-they-encounter-uniformed-members-of-the-military/778247/10 "2017-01-26T20:57:51Z")
And yet, marking obedience existed long before medals of honor. ---
**Author:** ![Loach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/loach/32/350_2.png) [@Loach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Loach)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2017, 10:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-ex-presidents-still-salute-when-they-encounter-uniformed-members-of-the-military/778247/11 "2017-01-26T22:26:38Z")
> [@Whack-a-Mole](#): > > I know that president Reagan started the tradition of saluting the military. I also know as CIC this is deemed permissible. Sure about this? My father was stationed in D.C. as a Marine right after WWII. He missed the war by a few months. One of his duties was sometimes pulling guard duty at Camp David (Shangri-la). Once he was saluted by Truman. I heard this story before Reagan was president. ---
**Author:** ![Alessan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alessan/32/465_2.png) [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2017, 10:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-ex-presidents-still-salute-when-they-encounter-uniformed-members-of-the-military/778247/12 "2017-01-26T22:41:49Z")
> [@outlierrn](#): > > At its core, the salute is a mark of obedience. It’s more of a method for reinforcing the hierarchy, IMHO. After all, while it’s a sign of respect, in most cases it’s not a sign of \*personal \*respect - you salute the rank, not the person, right? Which means what you’re respecting is the rank, and what makes it worthy of respect is that it’s a higher rank than yours. Thus, the salute is used to remind everyone who’s in charge. ---
**Author:** ![Whack-a-Mole](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/whack-a-mole/32/141_2.png) [@Whack-a-Mole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Whack-a-Mole)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2017, 11:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-ex-presidents-still-salute-when-they-encounter-uniformed-members-of-the-military/778247/13 "2017-01-26T23:00:37Z")
> [@Loach](#): > > Sure about this? My father was stationed in D.C. as a Marine right after WWII. He missed the war by a few months. One of his duties was sometimes pulling guard duty at Camp David (Shangri-la). Once he was saluted by Truman. I heard this story before Reagan was president. Reasonably sure. That is not to say it didn’t happen here and there on occasion but mostly it didn’t. > [@](#): > > Presidents have long been saluted, but they began returning salutes relatively recently. Ronald Reagan was thought to be the first, in 1981. He had sought advice on the matter from Gen. Robert Barrow, commandant of the Marine Corps. According to John Kline, then Mr. Reagan’s military aide and today a member of Congress from Minnesota, General Barrow told the president that as commander in chief he could salute anybody he wished. And so it began. > > SOURCE: [http://www.nytimes.com/2009/11/01/opinion/01winfrey.html](http://www.nytimes.com/2009/11/01/opinion/01winfrey.html) ---
**Author:** ![Whack-a-Mole](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/whack-a-mole/32/141_2.png) [@Whack-a-Mole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Whack-a-Mole)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2017, 11:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-ex-presidents-still-salute-when-they-encounter-uniformed-members-of-the-military/778247/14 "2017-01-26T23:02:14Z")
> [@Alessan](#): > > It’s more of a method for reinforcing the hierarchy, IMHO. After all, while it’s a sign of respect, in most cases it’s not a sign of \*personal \*respect - you salute the rank, not the person, right? Which means what you’re respecting is the rank, and what makes it worthy of respect is that it’s a higher rank than yours. Thus, the salute is used to remind everyone who’s in charge. Presumably the person with the higher rank earned and deserves that rank thus she/he is deserving of respect from those of lower ranks. ---
**Author:** ![Bear\_Nenno](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bear_nenno/32/3358_2.png) [@Bear\_Nenno](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bear_Nenno)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2017, 11:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-ex-presidents-still-salute-when-they-encounter-uniformed-members-of-the-military/778247/15 "2017-01-26T23:03:47Z")
> [@Alan\_Smithee](#): > > What is the protocol for members of the military In the presence of the president? Has it changed over time? Soldiers are required to salute the president. However, the president is not required to return the salute. ---
**Author:** ![watchwolf49](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/e9c0ed/32.png) [@watchwolf49](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/watchwolf49)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2017, 11:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-ex-presidents-still-salute-when-they-encounter-uniformed-members-of-the-military/778247/16 "2017-01-26T23:16:16Z")
When I was in the Air Force back in the early 1980’s … there was no requirement to salute civilians … POTUS, ex-POTUS, Sec of Defense, Sec of the Air Force … not until we get to the Air Force Chief of Staff, who is a four star general … we not only had to render a salute to his/her person but also his/her staff vehicle … Times change and so do military regulations … Pity the O-1, or 2nd Lieutenant in the Air Force … they have to return the salute from all enlisted personnel and render a salute to all senior officers … two solid years saluting everything … ---
**Author:** ![Alan\_Smithee](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/2acd7d/32.png) [@Alan\_Smithee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alan_Smithee)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2017, 11:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-ex-presidents-still-salute-when-they-encounter-uniformed-members-of-the-military/778247/17 "2017-01-26T23:25:29Z")
> [@Bear\_Nenno](#): > > Soldiers are required to salute the president. However, the president is not required to return the salute. How long do they hold the salute for? ---
**Author:** ![Bear\_Nenno](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bear_nenno/32/3358_2.png) [@Bear\_Nenno](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bear_Nenno)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2017, 12:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-ex-presidents-still-salute-when-they-encounter-uniformed-members-of-the-military/778247/18 "2017-01-27T00:20:54Z")
> [@Alan\_Smithee](#): > > How long do they hold the salute for? Until he aknowledges the salute, leaves (at least 6 paces away), or it becomes otherwise appropriate such as walking up and extending his hand for a handshake or something. ---
**Author:** ![outlierrn](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/outlierrn/32/3005_2.png) [@outlierrn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/outlierrn)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2017, 2:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-ex-presidents-still-salute-when-they-encounter-uniformed-members-of-the-military/778247/19 "2017-01-27T02:24:23Z")
> [@Alessan](#): > > It’s more of a method for reinforcing the hierarchy, IMHO. After all, while it’s a sign of respect, in most cases it’s not a sign of \*personal \*respect - you salute the rank, not the person, right? Which means what you’re respecting is the rank, and what makes it worthy of respect is that it’s a higher rank than yours. Thus, the salute is used to remind everyone who’s in charge. God knows I saluted, and obeyed, some people I didn’t respect. ---
**Author:** ![Asuka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@Asuka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Asuka)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2017, 9:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-ex-presidents-still-salute-when-they-encounter-uniformed-members-of-the-military/778247/20 "2017-01-27T21:45:20Z")
> [@outlierrn](#): > > At its core, the salute is a mark of obedience. Which is why the Red Army and People’s Liberation Army did away with the whole saluting and rank system in the early days, since they were a classless society after all and your “rank” was based solely on your job. Of course eventually they just went back to the Imperial Russian rank system since it was a pain-in-the-ass to figure out somebodies exact rank with the Soviet system. I believe the PLA went into the Korean War still without formal ranks and it lead to a lot of confusing in combat with people arguing over who was in command of who. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-ex-presidents-still-salute-when-they-encounter-uniformed-members-of-the-military/778247.md?page=2)