# Do fast food taco chains have the market cornered on decent taco shells? **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Tags:** food-cooking\ **Created:** [February 9, 2023, 2:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-fast-food-taco-chains-have-the-market-cornered-on-decent-taco-shells/979531 "2023-02-09T14:58:50Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Grrr](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/grrr/32/146_2.png) [@Grrr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Grrr)\ **Post date:** [February 10, 2023, 12:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-fast-food-taco-chains-have-the-market-cornered-on-decent-taco-shells/979531/21 "2023-02-10T00:20:30Z")
> [@Atamasama](#): > > Because if you don’t, they taste stale and old. Though again, the microwave should be fine. As I’ve said before, I don’t have to bake tortilla chips and they don’t taste stale and old. The fast food chains aren’t baking theirs and they taste great. ---
**Author:** ![Atamasama](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/atamasama/32/12961_2.png) [@Atamasama](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Atamasama)\ **Post date:** [February 10, 2023, 12:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-fast-food-taco-chains-have-the-market-cornered-on-decent-taco-shells/979531/22 "2023-02-10T00:48:40Z")
> [@Grrr](#): > > As I’ve said before, I don’t have to bake tortilla chips and they don’t taste stale and old. When I have leftover chips, say I got take-out from a sit down Mexican place and couldn’t eat them, so they sit in a paper bag for a while on the kitchen counter. Or if I get nachos from a place like Taco Bell and they’ve been in the fridge for a day. They are the soft, spongy, and stale the same way a shell is when you take it out of the box. Heating them up makes them taste fresh and crisp again. (Sometimes I also have to add a little dash of salt as well.) Now you ask, why are tortilla chips crispier right out of the bag? Why aren’t taco shells? I believe it’s because you’re not making tacos out of tortilla chips. Tortilla chips are thin and brittle and break easily. That makes them great for crunch but terrible for a taco. You need a taco shell to be tough enough that you can pick it up and bite into it without the whole thing falling apart. Think of the Doritos Locos tacos from Taco Bell that have shells reminiscent of a Dorito, but they are so brittle they have to come in a cardboard sleeve to protect them. (And every time I’ve ever eaten one, it falls apart on the first bite anyway, and I have to pick the rest of it out in pieces from the sleeve.) I’m not sure how Taco Bell and similar Tex-Mex fast food places are able to give you a crunchy taco that doesn’t need to be baked. Maybe it has to do with the way they store them. I haven’t worked there so I couldn’t tell you. It may be the fact that a supermarket taco shell needs to be in a box on a shelf for a while, then you need to take it home and prepare it for home use. A fast food restaurant might get shells that don’t need to sit for very long because they’re going to be used immediately for customers. I can only speculate. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [February 10, 2023, 1:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-fast-food-taco-chains-have-the-market-cornered-on-decent-taco-shells/979531/23 "2023-02-10T01:20:20Z")
> [@Grrr](#): > > When I go to a taco chain such as Taco Bell or Taco Bueno, the shells are light and crispy. > > When I buy shells at the store, the shells taste stale and old. And WTF do I need to bake them in the oven? Uhg! I live in SoCal. The food at Taco Bell , while tasty and cheap, is _not_ authentic. Authentic is a small soft corn tortilla. I can get great one at the grocery store. Warm them or lightly fry them, add meat (get some flap steak, chop and fry with seaonings), a little shredded cabbage, Then salsa, fresh lime juice, maybe some Queso. Some prefer diced onion and cilantro instead of cabbage and salsa. > [@DCnDC](#): > > A few years ago I bought a tortilla press and trial-and-errored my way to fresh corn tortillas. If you ever want to do this, and I recommend it it’s worth the effort, the secret is to let the dough sit for 30 minutes before you try to press it. Yes, the best, but maybe not worth the time. ---
**Author:** ![phs3](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/8491ac/32.png) [@phs3](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/phs3)\ **Post date:** [February 10, 2023, 2:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-fast-food-taco-chains-have-the-market-cornered-on-decent-taco-shells/979531/24 "2023-02-10T02:11:31Z")
> [@Atamasama](#): > > Bell At least not in the store–they mostly use ghost kitchens for their cooking, apparently. However, I have wondered if the chains use some special ingredients to make their shells more durable. I joke to my wife that it’s banana fiber (not that I even know that such a thing exists, it just sounds like the kind of crazy thing that might be a secret ingredient). And that might be a corporate secret. AH HAH! [Taco Bell Ingredients Information](https://www.tacobell.com/ingredients) lists OAT FIBER as an ingredient in their shells! ---
**Author:** ![scabpicker](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/scabpicker/32/8268_2.png) [@scabpicker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/scabpicker)\ **Post date:** [February 10, 2023, 2:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-fast-food-taco-chains-have-the-market-cornered-on-decent-taco-shells/979531/25 "2023-02-10T02:13:45Z")
> [@Grrr](#): > > Old El Paso is the worst. And the only ones available where I’m at. That’s probably part of the reason why you need to heat them in the oven to remove any staleness. Old El Paso wraps theirs in a thin shrink wrap, and the shell will often poke tiny holes in it that lets humidity in. Also, if you only have Old El Paso available, then the turnover in taco shells is probably not that high. > [@Balthisar](#): > > The problem is that tostadas are flat and taco shells aren’t flat and aren’t in the Mexican grocer because taco shells aren’t at all Mexican. > [@DrDeth](#): > > I live in SoCal. The food at Taco Bell , while tasty and cheap, is _not_ authentic. My opinion is that statements saying hard shells aren’t Mexican are silly, short sighted, and more than a little bit ignorant. The border moved on the Mexicans, they stayed put. It’d didn’t remove their culture, especially that of food. It’s almost certain that the first person to hard fry a shell before filling it was a person of Mexican heritage, and they probably kept doing it until the non-Mexican folks around them noticed because they liked them themselves. Taco Bell did not invent this technology, Mexican-Americans apparently did. > [@bump](#): > > The usual way to do it is to just heat up a shallow pan of oil and fry them, folding them in half during the process. Mmmmmmmm, and that is the divine way to go. My brother calls them “mom tacos”, and I taunt him with pictures when I make them. You can make a variety of textures of them. Leave some of them a little bit leathery, so they’ll never fall apart (my favorite), and fry some others hard enough that people can take their chances with whether they’ll fall apart. If you’re crafty with the tongs, you can even get them to be U shaped instead of V shaped. ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [February 10, 2023, 2:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-fast-food-taco-chains-have-the-market-cornered-on-decent-taco-shells/979531/26 "2023-02-10T02:15:55Z")
> [@DCnDC](#): > > Anyways, if you then want them crispy, once you’ve made them just bake them at 350F for 5 minutes. Hang them over two oven rack wires to “taco” them into shape. Nah. The secret to true crispy taco goodness is to put your meat of choice on a corn tortilla, fold it over, and then deep-fry it. Pull it out once it’s crispy, pour out the excess oil, and add your fixin’s. ---
**Author:** ![Atamasama](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/atamasama/32/12961_2.png) [@Atamasama](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Atamasama)\ **Post date:** [February 10, 2023, 2:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-fast-food-taco-chains-have-the-market-cornered-on-decent-taco-shells/979531/27 "2023-02-10T02:18:12Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > The food at Taco Bell , while tasty and cheap, is _not_ authentic. Authentic what? Not authentic Mexican food. But [Tex-Mex](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tex-Mex) is a southwestern American cuisine that is inspired by and incorporates Mexican culinary aspects. I think Taco Bell is a pretty good example of offering such food in a quick and cheap form. Most of the “Mexican” restaurants I’ve eaten at are really Tex-Mex, because that’s what Americans like and want. I’ve been to some pretty authentic Mexican restaurants in the US that bear only a slight resemblance to what you will find at such places, as well as food trucks. And I’ve eaten some good food in Mexico itself that was similar. > [@Smapti](#): > > Nah. The secret to true crispy taco goodness is to put your meat of choice on a corn tortilla, fold it over, and then deep-fry it. Pull it out once it’s crispy, pour out the excess oil, and add your fixin’s. That’s not that different from how Jack in the Box makes tacos. ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [February 10, 2023, 2:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-fast-food-taco-chains-have-the-market-cornered-on-decent-taco-shells/979531/28 "2023-02-10T02:35:32Z")
> [@Atamasama](#): > > That’s not that different from how Jack in the Box makes tacos. Naturally. Jack in the Box started in San Diego, and deep-fried crispy tacos are a staple of mom-and-pop Mexican restaurants there, though the ones you’ll get at Roberto’s are much better quality than Jack’s version; [https://robertostacoshop.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/07/Robertos\_TwoTacos\_COMBO-1170x658.jpg](https://robertostacoshop.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/07/Robertos_TwoTacos_COMBO-1170x658.jpg) ---
**Author:** ![Atamasama](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/atamasama/32/12961_2.png) [@Atamasama](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Atamasama)\ **Post date:** [February 10, 2023, 2:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-fast-food-taco-chains-have-the-market-cornered-on-decent-taco-shells/979531/29 "2023-02-10T02:36:03Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > the ones you’ll get at Roberto’s are much better quality than Jack’s version Those look **amazing**. ---
**Author:** ![pulykamell](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pulykamell/32/3166_2.png) [@pulykamell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pulykamell)\ **Post date:** [February 10, 2023, 12:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-fast-food-taco-chains-have-the-market-cornered-on-decent-taco-shells/979531/30 "2023-02-10T12:47:44Z")
n/m – I need a better cite. Anyhow, the pre-formed shell does seem to be an American innovation by Glen Bell, based on , of course, tacos dorados. ---
**Author:** ![pulykamell](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pulykamell/32/3166_2.png) [@pulykamell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pulykamell)\ **Post date:** [February 10, 2023, 1:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-fast-food-taco-chains-have-the-market-cornered-on-decent-taco-shells/979531/31 "2023-02-10T13:08:41Z")
Here’s a source. > Bell had a hamburger and hot dog stand right across the street from a popular Mexican restaurant, and by 1951 he had reverse-engineered the taco and began selling it, including the _tacos dorados_ popular in southern California. But, inspired by the McDonald’s ideas of interchangeable parts made in advance, Bell came up with a new idea. “Glen Bell is credited as coming up with the pre-formed taco shell,” says Walsh. And that turned out to be a turning point for the fast-food industry. [From here](https://www.atlasobscura.com/articles/the-texan-who-invented-chili-powder-also-accidentally-created-the-hardshell-american-taco?utm_source=twitter&utm_medium=atlas-page). But if you weren’t specifically talking about the preformed shells then, yeah, fried/hard shell tacos a la tacos dorados have been a thing south of the border. They’re not just a Tex-Mex or Cali-Mex thing. ---
**Author:** ![actualliberalnotoneofthose](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e79b87/32.png) [@actualliberalnotoneofthose](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/actualliberalnotoneofthose)\ **Post date:** [February 10, 2023, 1:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-fast-food-taco-chains-have-the-market-cornered-on-decent-taco-shells/979531/32 "2023-02-10T13:17:14Z")
Maybe they’ve changed or maybe I am conditioned to have bad taste, but I grew up eating the taco shells from the supermarket long before I had ever seen a taco chain (think we first got Taco Bell in the mid '90s). They were always fine to me after being heated up a few minutes on a baking sheet. I don’t really purchase those too much anymore or do fast food in general. I might eat tacos at a sit down chain place once every 2-3 years, but the last time I bought some for home they were still alright to me. ---
**Author:** ![scabpicker](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/scabpicker/32/8268_2.png) [@scabpicker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/scabpicker)\ **Post date:** [February 10, 2023, 2:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-fast-food-taco-chains-have-the-market-cornered-on-decent-taco-shells/979531/33 "2023-02-10T14:56:32Z")
> [@pulykamell](#): > > But if you weren’t specifically talking about the preformed shells then, yeah, fried/hard shell tacos a la tacos dorados have been a thing south of the border. No, I’m meaning a pre-formed hard shell. Bell didn’t invent it. > [@](#): > > In 1950, Juvencio Maldonado applied for and received a patent for a machine that would make taco-making a far-easier endeavor. Remember (or learn for the first time) that in those days, a taco was universally made from a fried shell, which meant each shell needed to be fried fresh, and individually folded. Maldonado, a Oaxacan immigrant who ended up in Manhattan in the 1930s, devised a machine that would allow multiple shells to be created at the same time. The effort gained him a mention in the _New York Times_ , though it never took off commercially. From here: > **[An Oral History of Hard-Shell Tacos](https://melmagazine.com/en-us/story/an-oral-history-of-hard-shell-tacos)** > > In the U.S., it’s impossible to bite into the crunchy goodness of a hard shell taco without thinking of Taco Bell: The combination of a... A page with two pics of two such machines, the second is from 1951: > **[Taco Innovation: Two Early Tortilla Frying Patents](https://slicesofbluesky.com/tortilla-frying-patents/)** > > I recently finished reading Gustavo Arellano’s Taco USA, an interesting combo platter of history, personal stories, and food culture. In his detailed overview of the history and evolution of … So, if people were already getting patents for machines to ease frying hard shells by the time Bell had “reverse-engineered” the taco, he didn’t invent the thing. Plus, people in Texas such as my mother had been hard frying taco shells in a pan before anyone heard of Taco Bell. Also: > [@](#): > > Now, if you’re trying to talk about who created the taco shell in terms of mass marketing them, you could make the argument that George Ashley of Absolute Mexican Food did that, because in the late 1930s, way before Glenn Bell or Juvencio Maldonado [the first guy to apply for a patent to do hard shell tacos in mass quantities], he was selling these metal taco molds for making your own taco kits at home. > **[An Oral History of Hard-Shell Tacos](https://melmagazine.com/en-us/story/an-oral-history-of-hard-shell-tacos)** > > In the U.S., it’s impossible to bite into the crunchy goodness of a hard shell taco without thinking of Taco Bell: The combination of a... ---
**Author:** ![Elmer\_J.Fudd](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/elmer_j.fudd/32/1211_2.png) [@Elmer\_J.Fudd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elmer_J.Fudd)\ **Post date:** [February 10, 2023, 3:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-fast-food-taco-chains-have-the-market-cornered-on-decent-taco-shells/979531/34 "2023-02-10T15:07:56Z")
> [@scabpicker](#): > > Remember (or learn for the first time) that in those days, a taco was universally made from a fried shell, This line from that site is the dumbest thing I ever read. ---
**Author:** ![scabpicker](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/scabpicker/32/8268_2.png) [@scabpicker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/scabpicker)\ **Post date:** [February 10, 2023, 3:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-fast-food-taco-chains-have-the-market-cornered-on-decent-taco-shells/979531/35 "2023-02-10T15:10:36Z")
> [@Elmer\_J.Fudd](#): > > This line from that site is the dumbest thing I ever read.   About the only problem I have with that sentence is that they say it’s universal. Universal things are very rare. Hard shell tacos were a very common thing, and easily predate Taco Bell. ---
**Author:** ![Elmer\_J.Fudd](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/elmer_j.fudd/32/1211_2.png) [@Elmer\_J.Fudd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elmer_J.Fudd)\ **Post date:** [February 10, 2023, 3:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-fast-food-taco-chains-have-the-market-cornered-on-decent-taco-shells/979531/36 "2023-02-10T15:14:38Z")
But it wasn’t even the most common. Hard shell tacos were an innovation, not the default. Even in the US. I suspect. ---
**Author:** ![pulykamell](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pulykamell/32/3166_2.png) [@pulykamell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pulykamell)\ **Post date:** [February 10, 2023, 3:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-fast-food-taco-chains-have-the-market-cornered-on-decent-taco-shells/979531/37 "2023-02-10T15:18:04Z")
Fascinating info. Thanks. ---
**Author:** ![scabpicker](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/scabpicker/32/8268_2.png) [@scabpicker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/scabpicker)\ **Post date:** [February 10, 2023, 3:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-fast-food-taco-chains-have-the-market-cornered-on-decent-taco-shells/979531/38 "2023-02-10T15:18:17Z")
Again, I don’t think that was true. Canned tortillas and a form to fry them date back to the 30s. My mother and her mother fried hard shell tacos at least back in the 50s. They may have been an innovation to some, but they’re older than hell here. ---
**Author:** ![Elmer\_J.Fudd](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/elmer_j.fudd/32/1211_2.png) [@Elmer\_J.Fudd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elmer_J.Fudd)\ **Post date:** [February 10, 2023, 3:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-fast-food-taco-chains-have-the-market-cornered-on-decent-taco-shells/979531/39 "2023-02-10T15:46:50Z")
> [@scabpicker](#): > > Canned tortillas and a form to fry them date back to the 30s You could buy a whole chicken in a can back then. That doesn’t mean that most chicken dinners came out of a can. As for family anecdotes, my mother’s family from Michigan fried their shells. The California Okies on my father’s side made soft shell tacos. ---
**Author:** ![Balthisar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/balthisar/32/2825_2.png) [@Balthisar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Balthisar)\ **Post date:** [February 10, 2023, 10:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-fast-food-taco-chains-have-the-market-cornered-on-decent-taco-shells/979531/40 "2023-02-10T22:23:02Z")
It doesn’t matter whether or not a Mexican invented or Mr. Bell did. Culinarily, those perfect U-shaped taco shells are not food that you find within the current Mexican borders. I’ve lived in and travelled extensively in Mexico – more than most Mexicans – and had Mexican family. They’re not Mexican culinary tradition, and if you want to find the exception that proves the rule, then yes, at a bar in Creel, Chihuahua, I had a taco that was a literal clone of a Taco Bell taco. When I asked, it was because the gringo tourists liked them. And yes, fried tortillas are a Mexican culinary thing. I mentioned examples of them in my previous post. Those aren’t what I’m talking about. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-fast-food-taco-chains-have-the-market-cornered-on-decent-taco-shells/979531.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-fast-food-taco-chains-have-the-market-cornered-on-decent-taco-shells/979531.md?page=3)