# Do Foreign Languages Have Their Own Names For American States **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [April 12, 2010, 3:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-foreign-languages-have-their-own-names-for-american-states/535847 "2010-04-12T15:48:30Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![levdrakon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/49beb7/32.png) [@levdrakon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/levdrakon)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2010, 11:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-foreign-languages-have-their-own-names-for-american-states/535847/41 "2010-04-12T23:42:04Z")
> [@Svejk\_1](#): > > but again, as with the /h/, Russian _has_ no /w/, so it’s no change in any real sense - what else are they supposed to short of not transliterating non-Cyrillic words? Russians don’t have a “w” but I’ve seen them fake it with a oo-eh sound. If your name were “Westen” it might get spelled out as oo-ehsten rather than “Vesten.” ---
**Author:** ![put\_down\_the\_sabre](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/da6949/32.png) [@put\_down\_the\_sabre](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/put_down_the_sabre)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2010, 12:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-foreign-languages-have-their-own-names-for-american-states/535847/42 "2010-04-13T00:24:43Z")
> [@Dr.Drake](#): > > It’s funny. I do hear “Efrog Newydd” for New York, but I don’t think I’ve ever heard “Efrog” used for plain ol’ York, though I’ve certainly seen it in writing. Haha, yes I suppose I have noticed that too. Cymro dych chi? ---
**Author:** ![even\_sven](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/dfb087/32.png) [@even\_sven](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/even_sven)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2010, 1:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-foreign-languages-have-their-own-names-for-american-states/535847/43 "2010-04-13T01:33:46Z")
The point about Cantonese is a good one that I had not considered. What do they say in Cantonese? > [@Gary\_T](#): > > 😕 I’m afraid it’s not obvious to me. Please explain. Chinese is interesting because the writing is in independent of the pronunciation. This means that you can use the same writing system to communicate even when your spoken languages are mutually unintelligible. The two big dialects/languages are Mandarin and Cantonese, and the spoken language is pretty much unintelligible although the written language stays pretty much the same. This means that any transliterations of place names would end up sounding completely different when pronounced in Cantonese. ---
**Author:** ![Svejk\_1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ea666f/32.png) [@Svejk\_1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Svejk_1)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2010, 1:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-foreign-languages-have-their-own-names-for-american-states/535847/44 "2010-04-13T01:37:03Z")
> [@levdrakon](#): > > Russians don’t have a “w” but I’ve seen them fake it with a oo-eh sound. If your name were “Westen” it might get spelled out as oo-ehsten rather than “Vesten.” ‘Faking it’ is not what I’d call it (approximation is so much nicer) but this is often true (though not always). Still, the point remains that neither ‘Уисконсин’ nor ‘Висконсин’ are ‘Russia’s own name’ (as per the OP) for Wisconsin. It’s a transliteration, not a translation. ---
**Author:** ![Dr.Drake](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ad7895/32.png) [@Dr.Drake](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dr.Drake)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2010, 1:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-foreign-languages-have-their-own-names-for-american-states/535847/45 "2010-04-13T01:53:32Z")
> [@put\_down\_the\_sabre](#): > > Haha, yes I suppose I have noticed that too. > > Cymro dych chi? Nope–Americanwr sy wedi dysgu Cymraeg, but nothing like a native speaker, though my in-laws are. ---
**Author:** ![BigT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bigt/32/12044_2.png) [@BigT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigT)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2010, 2:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-foreign-languages-have-their-own-names-for-american-states/535847/46 "2010-04-13T02:44:13Z")
My Polish friend told me that bigger cities are often translated, while smaller ones are not. She was referring to the way English handles her country and the surrounding ones, though. Her big examples were the capitals of Poland (Warsaw/Warsawa [pronounced Varshava) and Russia (Moscow/Москва [moskva]), as opposed to the smaller places she grew up in, which I can’t remember off the top of my head. ---
**Author:** ![Waffle\_Decider](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/77aa72/32.png) [@Waffle\_Decider](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Waffle_Decider)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2010, 3:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-foreign-languages-have-their-own-names-for-american-states/535847/47 "2010-04-13T03:19:54Z")
> [@even\_sven](#): > > The point about Cantonese is a good one that I had not considered. What do they say in Cantonese? > > Chinese is interesting because the writing is in independent of the pronunciation. This means that you can use the same writing system to communicate even when your spoken languages are mutually unintelligible. > > The two big dialects/languages are Mandarin and Cantonese, and the spoken language is pretty much unintelligible although the written language stays pretty much the same. This means that any transliterations of place names would end up sounding completely different when pronounced in Cantonese. It’s pronounced “ga lei fuk nei a” in Cantonese. Except for the first syllable, it’s actually somewhat similar to Mandarin in this case. A good example of a transliteration that doesn’t work in both languages is the Chinese name of Walmart, 沃爾瑪. It’s pronounced “wo er ma” in Mandarin, which is all well and good. However, it’s pronounced “yuk yi ma” in Cantonese, which is not even close. “Old Gold Mountain” is actually the archaic Chinese name for San Francisco, but not California. ---
**Author:** ![Throatwarbler\_Mangrove](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/8c91f0/32.png) [@Throatwarbler\_Mangrove](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Throatwarbler_Mangrove)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2010, 4:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-foreign-languages-have-their-own-names-for-american-states/535847/48 "2010-04-13T04:21:16Z")
> [@](#): > > “Old Gold Mountain” is actually the archaic Chinese name for San Francisco, but not California. > **[Gold Mountain](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gold_Mountain)** > > Gold Mountain and similar may refer to Apparently it once referred to all of western North America. ---
**Author:** ![Cunctator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/43a26b/32.png) [@Cunctator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cunctator)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2010, 5:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-foreign-languages-have-their-own-names-for-american-states/535847/49 "2010-04-13T05:13:08Z")
I remember learning the French names for the Australian states. There seemed to be no logic to it. Some were translated: Australie-Occidentale for Western Australia, Australie-Méridionale for South Australia and Nouvelle-Galles du Sud for New South Wales etc. But others were left in their English forms: Queensland and Victoria. ---
**Author:** ![Hallucinex](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/ba9def/32.png) [@Hallucinex](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hallucinex)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2010, 5:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-foreign-languages-have-their-own-names-for-american-states/535847/50 "2010-04-13T05:44:46Z")
> [@Giles](#): > > There’s no h sound in Russian, so they use the next best letter, often “г” (the Cyrillic letter derived from the Greek gamma, and sounding like g). I once saw a [Russian movie of “Hamlet”](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hamlet_%281964_film%29) with the title “Гамлет”, i.e. “Gamlet”. The supermarket down the road has a bunch of copies of “Гарри Поттер” (Garry Potter) 🙂 A lot of the transliterations I’ve seen of “h” are “г”(“g”), but I think there’s also the occasional “х” used (which is more of a hard h, like “kh”) e.g. the russian wikipedia [list of US states](http://ru.wikipedia.org/wiki/%D0%90%D0%B4%D0%BC%D0%B8%D0%BD%D0%B8%D1%81%D1%82%D1%80%D0%B0%D1%82%D0%B8%D0%B2%D0%BD%D0%BE%D0%B5_%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BB%D0%B5%D0%BD%D0%B8%D0%B5_%D0%A1%D0%A8%D0%90) lists “Оклахома” for Oklahoma ---
**Author:** ![Simmerdown](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/simmerdown/32/14859_2.png) [@Simmerdown](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Simmerdown)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2010, 4:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-foreign-languages-have-their-own-names-for-american-states/535847/51 "2010-04-13T16:22:16Z")
> [@hibernicus](#): > > Lithuanian modifies the endings of foreign proper nouns including foreign place-names, so that they can be declined according to the requirements of Lithuanian grammar. So Texas becomes Teksasas (adding a 1st declension “-as” ending); Chicago becomes the 2nd-declension “Čikaga”, and so on. Strict phonetic spelling rules mean that the Lithuanian version can appear quite different to the English: can you recognise the states of “Juta”, “Aidahas”, and “Vajomingas”? > > Irish has “Nua Eabhrac” for New York. In Canada you have “Talamh an Éisc” (Newfoundland) and “Nua Albain” (Nova Scotia). Juta = Utah Aidahas = Idaho Vajomingas = Wyoming ---
**Author:** ![Ispolkom](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/e47774/32.png) [@Ispolkom](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ispolkom)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2010, 4:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-foreign-languages-have-their-own-names-for-american-states/535847/52 "2010-04-13T16:36:36Z")
> [@Hallucinex](#): > > The supermarket down the road has a bunch of copies of “Гарри Поттер” (Garry Potter) 🙂 > > A lot of the transliterations I’ve seen of “h” are “г”(“g”), but I think there’s also the occasional “х” used (which is more of a hard h, like “kh”) e.g. the russian wikipedia [list of US states](http://ru.wikipedia.org/wiki/%D0%90%D0%B4%D0%BC%D0%B8%D0%BD%D0%B8%D1%81%D1%82%D1%80%D0%B0%D1%82%D0%B8%D0%B2%D0%BD%D0%BE%D0%B5_%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BB%D0%B5%D0%BD%D0%B8%D0%B5_%D0%A1%D0%A8%D0%90) lists “Оклахома” for Oklahoma I notice that the Russian wikipediaists often use г for an American English H. For instance the name of the Utah state representative Neal Hendrickson is rendered Нил Хендриксон. I wonder if this is an increasingly common rendering, because when I was there in the 80s and early 90s I would never have rendered an h as an x: the Hoover Institution was always the Гуверовский институт. ---
**Author:** ![Shot\_From\_Guns](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ccd318/32.png) [@Shot\_From\_Guns](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shot_From_Guns)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2010, 5:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-foreign-languages-have-their-own-names-for-american-states/535847/53 "2010-04-13T17:01:22Z")
Here are all the Japanese transliterations, just for the heck of it. (Spoilered so as not to take up half the page.) Note that a long vowel in Japanese indicates the length of time the vowel is held for, not a pronunciation change as in English. Alabama: アラバマ _Arabama_ Alaska: アラスカ _Arasuka_ Arizona: アリゾナ _Arizona_ Arkansas: アーカンソー _Ākansō_ California: カリフォルニア _Kariforunia_ Colorado: コロラド _Kororado_ Connecticut: コネチカット _Konechikatto_ Delaware: デラウェア _Derauea_ Florida: フロリダ _Furorida_ Georgia: ジョージア _Jyōjia_ Hawaii: ハワイ _Hawai_ Idaho: アイダホ _Aidaho_ Illinois: イリノイ _Irinoi_ Indiana: インディアナ _Indiana_ Iowa: アイオワ _Aiowa_ Kansas: カンザス _Kanzasu_ Kentucky: ケンタッキー _Kentakkī_ Louisiana: ルイジアナ _Ruijiana_ Maine: メイン _Mein_ Maryland: メリーランド _Merīrando_ Massachusetts: マサチューセッツ _Masachyūsettsu_ Michigan: ミシガン _Mishigan_ Minnesota: ミネソタ _Minesota_ Mississippi: ミシシッピ _Mishishippi_ Missouri: ミズーリ _Misūri_ Montana: モンタナ _Montana_ Nebraska: ネブラスカ _Neburasuka_ Nevada: ネバダ _Nebada_ New Hampshire: ニューハンプシャー _Nyū Hanpushyā_ New Jersey: ニュージャージー _Nyū Jyājī_ New Mexico: ニューメキシコ _Nyū Mekishiko_ New York: ニューヨーク _Nyū Yōku_ North Carolina: ノースカロライナ _Nōsu Karoraina_ North Dakota: ノースダコタ _Nōsu Dakota_ Ohio: オハイオ _Ohaio_ Oklahoma: オクラホマ _Okurahoma_ Oregon: オレゴン _Oregon_ Pennsylvania: ペンシルベニア _Penshirubenia_ Rhode Island: ロードアイランド _Rōdo Airando_ South Carolina: サウスカロライナ _Sausu Karoraina_ South Dakota: サウスダコタ _Sausu Dakota_ Tennessee: テネシー _Teneshī_ Texas: テキサス _Tekisasu_ Utah: ユタ _Yuta_ Vermont: バーモント _Bāmonto_ Virginia: バージニア _Bājinia_ Washington: ワシントン _Washinton_ West Virginia: ウェストバージニア _Uesuto Bājinia_ Wisconsin: ウィスコンシン _Uisukonshin_ Wyoming: ワイオミング _Waiomingu_ ---
**Author:** ![Svejk\_1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ea666f/32.png) [@Svejk\_1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Svejk_1)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2010, 5:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-foreign-languages-have-their-own-names-for-american-states/535847/54 "2010-04-13T17:07:32Z")
[QUOTE=IsPolKom] I notice that the Russian wikipediaists often use г for an American English H. For instance the name of the Utah state representative Neal Hendrickson is rendered Нил Хендриксон. I wonder if this is an increasingly common rendering, because when I was there in the 80s and early 90s I would never have rendered an h as an x: the Hoover Institution was always the Гуверовский институт. [/QUOTE] Actually, I’ve heard that Russians prefer /g/ over /kh/, even when /kh/ is technically more accurate (e.g. coming from other Slavic languages, or Dutch or German) because the /kh/ evokes the association with some swear words (e.g. хуй). ---
**Author:** ![bordelond](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bordelond/32/150_2.png) [@bordelond](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bordelond)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2010, 5:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-foreign-languages-have-their-own-names-for-american-states/535847/55 "2010-04-13T17:11:24Z")
> [@Ispolkom](#): > > I notice that the Russian wikipediaists often use г for an American English H. For instance the name of the Utah state representative Neal Hendrickson is rendered Нил Хендриксон. I wonder if this is an increasingly common rendering, because when I was there in the 80s and early 90s I would never have rendered an h as an x: the Hoover Institution was always the Гуверовский институт. It’s interesting. I had almost always seen Cyrillic “ **г** ” used for transliterating initial “h” in English-laguage names (e.g. **Гемингуэй** = Hemingway), and Cyrillic “x” used for transliterating medial “h” (e.g. **Оклахома** = Oklahoma). There have been some exceptions, naturally ( **Огайо** = Ohio). But now, on Russian Wikipedia pages, I see not just **Хирохито** (Hirohito), but also **Хемингуэй** for Hemingway. This is very much analogous to the way English speakers transliterate Arabic \*qāf \*and _kāf_ – sometimes it’s **Koran** , but a more modern/updated transliteration would be rendered as **Qur’an**. ---
**Author:** ![Giles](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/giles/32/60_2.png) [@Giles](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Giles)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2010, 5:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-foreign-languages-have-their-own-names-for-american-states/535847/56 "2010-04-13T17:13:08Z")
> [@Shot\_From\_Guns](#): > > Here are all the Japanese transliterations, just for the heck of it. … > > Ohio: オハイオ _Ohaio_ … Which is a lot like オハヨー (ohayō) – the Japanese for “Good morning”. ---
**Author:** ![Nava](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/da6949/32.png) [@Nava](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nava)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2010, 5:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-foreign-languages-have-their-own-names-for-american-states/535847/57 "2010-04-13T17:13:18Z")
Spanish has the peculiarity that a lot of US names are “in Spanish in the original” but may be pronounced differently in Spanish and English (for example Florida, which stresses the first syllable in English but the second one in Spanish). As for translating the “New”, it seems to depend on whether people are familiar with the original place. Nueva Orleans (previously Nueva Barcelona), Nueva York (previously Nuevo Amsterdam), Nuevo Mexico, Nueva Inglaterra, Nueva Escocia… but New Hampshire because, well, most Hispanics who haven’t lived in the UK (and many which have) would have problems finding Hampshire in a map. ---
**Author:** ![Svejk\_1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ea666f/32.png) [@Svejk\_1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Svejk_1)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2010, 5:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-foreign-languages-have-their-own-names-for-american-states/535847/58 "2010-04-13T17:16:25Z")
> [@bordelond](#): > > It’s interesting. I had almost always seen Cyrillic “ **г** ” used for transliterating initial “h” in English-laguage names (e.g. **Гемингуэй** = Hemingway), and Cyrillic “x” used for transliterating medial “h” (e.g. **Оклахома** = Oklahoma). There have been some exceptions, naturally ( **Огайо** = Ohio). > > But now, on Russian Wikipedia pages, I see not just **Хирохито** (Hirohito), but also **Хемингуэй** for Hemingway. This is very much analogous to the way English speakers transliterate Arabic \*qāf \*and _kāf_ – sometimes it’s **Koran** , but a more modern/updated transliteration would be rendered as **Qur’an**. it’s not analogous, though, because in English, k and q make the same sound, whereas /g/ and /kh/ in Russian sound completely different, and both sound can only serve as a distant approximation of /h/ in English, so it’s not like one’s more sophisticated. ---
**Author:** ![bordelond](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bordelond/32/150_2.png) [@bordelond](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bordelond)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2010, 5:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-foreign-languages-have-their-own-names-for-american-states/535847/59 "2010-04-13T17:20:27Z")
> [@Svejk\_1](#): > > Actually, I’ve heard that Russians prefer /g/ over /kh/, even when /kh/ is technically more accurate (e.g. coming from other Slavic languages, or Dutch or German) because the /kh/ evokes the association with some swear words (e.g. хуй). Maybe things are changing – I’m doing a lot of random searches of Russian Wikipedia (last few minutes: Hyderabad, William Randolph Hearst, Ho Chi Minh City, Lockheed Martin). Cyrillic “X” for English “h” appears to be gaining ground. Interestingly, “Lockheed Martin” was untransliterated – it was just left in Roman script. I did turn up “ **алкогол** ” (alcohol) and “ **гексан** ” (hexane), however. ---
**Author:** ![bordelond](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bordelond/32/150_2.png) [@bordelond](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bordelond)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2010, 5:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-foreign-languages-have-their-own-names-for-american-states/535847/60 "2010-04-13T17:22:58Z")
> [@Svejk\_1](#): > > it’s not analogous, though, because in English, k and q make the same sound, whereas /g/ and /kh/ in Russian sound completely different, and both sound can only serve as a distant approximation of /h/ in English, so it’s not like one’s more sophisticated. … analogous in the sense that there’s a choice of two letters in the target language. As you point out, there are also some differences. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-foreign-languages-have-their-own-names-for-american-states/535847.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-foreign-languages-have-their-own-names-for-american-states/535847.md?page=4)