# Do Foreign Languages Have Their Own Names For American States **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [April 12, 2010, 3:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-foreign-languages-have-their-own-names-for-american-states/535847 "2010-04-12T15:48:30Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 6
**Author:** ![Noone\_Special](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/noone_special/32/2863_2.png) [@Noone\_Special](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Noone_Special)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2010, 5:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-foreign-languages-have-their-own-names-for-american-states/535847/101 "2010-04-14T17:40:11Z")
> [@Nava](#): > > I’ve heard it as both Nuevo “Yérsi” and Nueva “Yérsi”, too, but always with a pronunciation closer to English than to the Spanish pronunciation of jersei. Have you ever heard Virginia del Oeste or Virginia Occidental? I think I may have heard the second one a veeeeery few times, but it could be one of those things with regional variations. “_Virginia del Oeste_” would be weird indeed, given that it doens’t actually exist in English/The US 😛 😃 (Unlike the N/S pairs, it’s just “Virginia” and “West Virginia.” Common mistake! :)) ---
**Author:** ![Sapo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ec9cab/32.png) [@Sapo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sapo)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2010, 8:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-foreign-languages-have-their-own-names-for-american-states/535847/102 "2010-04-14T20:14:57Z")
> [@Nava](#): > > I’ve heard it as both Nuevo “Yérsi” and Nueva “Yérsi”, too, but always with a pronunciation closer to English than to the Spanish pronunciation of jersei. Have you ever heard Virginia del Oeste or Virginia Occidental? I think I may have heard the second one a veeeeery few times, but it could be one of those things with regional variations. Not really. Only by people with a point to make. Another interesting case. Probably along the lines of why people around here cannot conjugate the verb to snow. If you don’t need it, you don’t know it. Poor WV. ---
**Author:** ![Sapo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ec9cab/32.png) [@Sapo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sapo)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2010, 8:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-foreign-languages-have-their-own-names-for-american-states/535847/103 "2010-04-14T20:16:35Z")
> [@Noone\_Special](#): > > “_Virginia del Oeste_” would be weird indeed, given that it doens’t actually exist in English/The US 😛 😃 > > (Unlike the N/S pairs, it’s just “Virginia” and “West Virginia.” Common mistake! :)) Oeste means west. So yes Virginia, there is a del Oeste. ---
**Author:** ![Ispolkom](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/e47774/32.png) [@Ispolkom](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ispolkom)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2010, 9:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-foreign-languages-have-their-own-names-for-american-states/535847/104 "2010-04-14T21:46:23Z")
> [@Polycarp](#): > > Russian Г usually but not always transliterates English hard G. It sometimes represents other sounds, including /v/ in the Genitive ending -oгo and a brief velar stop or fricative like nothing in English but most closely resembling a ‘rough breathing’ /h/. X is nearly always the unvoiced glottal fricative of _loch_ or _psyche_, or _chutzpah_. It seems to be used in transliterating ‘strong’ /h/ sounds like that in Oklahoma. (Compare the difference in how the average English speaker sounds the H’s in Oklahoma and Henry to see the distinction. I’m very familiar with how the two Russian letters are pronounced. I am not familiar, though, with strong h sounds. To my ear the two h’s you give are pronounced the same. Hoover, Idaho, Oklahoma, they all the sound the same to me. I grew up in North Dakota, and have lived extended times in northern California, Virginia, and once again in the upper Midwest. And why Ogaio for Ohio, but Oklakhoma for Oklahoma? Isn’t Ohio’s H as strong as Oklahoma’s? ---
**Author:** ![Svejk\_1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ea666f/32.png) [@Svejk\_1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Svejk_1)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2010, 11:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-foreign-languages-have-their-own-names-for-american-states/535847/105 "2010-04-14T23:53:53Z")
Putting differences in Russian transliteration down to an actual reflection of differences in English phonology is putting **way too much** stock in the linguistic capabilities and sensitivities of the transliteraters. There _is_ no such thing as a ‘strong’ h, and even there was, the Russians wouldn’t notice it because they can’t even pronounce the h to begin with. This is very much true for any transliteration, probably, it certainly is true for transliterations of Russian! ---
**Author:** ![Kyla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/eada6e/32.png) [@Kyla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kyla)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2010, 2:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-foreign-languages-have-their-own-names-for-american-states/535847/106 "2010-04-15T02:09:02Z")
> [@Timchik](#): > > Even stranger is that the country of Mexico is called Мексико (Meksiko), following English pronunciation, more or less, but Mexico City is Мехико (Mekhiko), following Spanish. The Bulgarian for Mexico City is…Мексико Сити. They just transliterated the English. I don’t know whose bright idea that was. ---
**Author:** ![Noone\_Special](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/noone_special/32/2863_2.png) [@Noone\_Special](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Noone_Special)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2010, 5:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-foreign-languages-have-their-own-names-for-american-states/535847/107 "2010-04-15T05:23:29Z")
> [@Sapo](#): > > Oeste means west. So yes Virginia, there is a del Oeste. OK, so replace “del Oeste” with “Occidental” in my previous post… 🙂 (and yes, I **should** have caught that myself. I swear I actually **do** know what “Occidental” means… :smack: ) ---
**Author:** ![Northern\_Piper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/northern_piper/32/5304_2.png) [@Northern\_Piper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Northern_Piper)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2010, 5:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-foreign-languages-have-their-own-names-for-american-states/535847/108 "2010-04-15T05:26:30Z")
> [@Cunctator](#): > > I remember learning the French names for the Australian states. There seemed to be no logic to it. Some were translated: Australie-Occidentale for Western Australia, Australie-Méridionale for South Australia and Nouvelle-Galles du Sud for New South Wales etc. But others were left in their English forms: Queensland and Victoria. That matches the pattern for the French names of Canadian provinces and territories - if the name is just one word, no translation, but if the name is more than one word and includes adjectives, it gets translated. Plus, “Victoria” is a proper name, so how would it get translated? In French we refer to “la reine Victoria”. ---
**Author:** ![Nava](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/da6949/32.png) [@Nava](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nava)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2010, 6:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-foreign-languages-have-their-own-names-for-american-states/535847/109 "2010-04-15T06:00:07Z")
> [@Noone\_Special](#): > > “_Virginia del Oeste_” would be weird indeed, given that it doens’t actually exist in English/The US 😛 😃 > > (Unlike the N/S pairs, it’s just “Virginia” and “West Virginia.” Common mistake! :)) > [@Noone\_Special](#): > > OK, so replace “del Oeste” with “Occidental” in my previous post… 🙂 > (and yes, I **should** have caught that myself. I swear I actually **do** know what “Occidental” means… :smack: ) **Nooner** , you were not having a good day 🙂 Occidental means “West”, Oriental means “East”. The West Indies are called Las Indias Occidentales in Spanish, not Las Indias del Oeste (those would be women appearing in John Wayne movies). Here, have some coffee… ---
**Author:** ![Noone\_Special](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/noone_special/32/2863_2.png) [@Noone\_Special](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Noone_Special)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2010, 6:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-foreign-languages-have-their-own-names-for-american-states/535847/110 "2010-04-15T06:15:57Z")
> [@Nava](#): > > **Nooner** , you were not having a good day 🙂 Occidental means “West”, Oriental means “East”. The West Indies are called Las Indias Occidentales in Spanish, not Las Indias del Oeste (those would be women appearing in John Wayne movies). Here, have some coffee… Aaaarrrgh… yeah. Logic 101. I’ve finally had some coffee this morning. 🙂 And yes, I **just now** figured out that the “or” in your initial post was giving **two different ways** of saying “West Virginia” in Spanish… :smack: And that what threw me originally is that, yes, I **did** understand what “Occidental” means – and was reading the sentence expecting the “or” to separate a pair of opposite-direction state names… :smack::smack::smack: Bottom line – I apologize for assuming and implying you believed that there **is** an East [del]Santa Claus[/del]\* Virginia. Move along, nothing to see here, move along… :o :o :o [/Logic 101 hijack] - Credit to \*\*Sapo \*\*here for reminding me of the “Yes, Virginia…” line! ---
**Author:** ![Sapo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ec9cab/32.png) [@Sapo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sapo)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2010, 10:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-foreign-languages-have-their-own-names-for-american-states/535847/111 "2010-04-15T10:28:24Z")
> [@Kyla](#): > > The Bulgarian for Mexico City is…Мексико Сити. They just transliterated the English. I don’t know whose bright idea that was. :eek: I presume there is no Mexican embassy in Bulgaria. > [@Noone\_Special](#): > > - Credit to \*\*Sapo \*\*here for reminding me of the “Yes, Virginia…” line! 😉 ---
**Author:** ![hogarth](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hogarth/32/1773_2.png) [@hogarth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/hogarth)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2010, 11:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-foreign-languages-have-their-own-names-for-american-states/535847/112 "2010-04-15T11:12:39Z")
> [@Northern\_Piper](#): > > That matches the pattern for the French names of Canadian provinces and territories - if the name is just one word, no translation, but if the name is more than one word and includes adjectives, it gets translated. Not really; Newfoundland is one word and it gets translated. The only ones that don’t get translated are derived from proper names (e.g. Alberta) or from native languages (e.g. Quebec). ---
**Author:** ![Northern\_Piper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/northern_piper/32/5304_2.png) [@Northern\_Piper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Northern_Piper)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2010, 11:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-foreign-languages-have-their-own-names-for-american-states/535847/113 "2010-04-15T11:42:51Z")
The name of the province in English is Newfoundland and Labrador, and in French is Terre-Neuve-et-Labrador. It’s not one word. ---
**Author:** ![storyguide3](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@storyguide3](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/storyguide3)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2010, 1:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-foreign-languages-have-their-own-names-for-american-states/535847/114 "2010-04-15T13:10:53Z")
> [@Northern\_Piper](#): > > The name of the province in English is Newfoundland and Labrador, and in French is Terre-Neuve-et-Labrador. It’s not one word. That name has only been offical at the federal level since 2001 and it was only in the 1990’s that the process to add Labrador to the name began at the provincial level. Prior to that it was officially the Province of Newfoundland. It was already Terre-Neuve in French prior to the addition of Labrador to the name. ---
**Author:** ![Shot\_From\_Guns](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ccd318/32.png) [@Shot\_From\_Guns](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shot_From_Guns)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2010, 3:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-foreign-languages-have-their-own-names-for-american-states/535847/115 "2010-04-15T15:03:33Z")
> [@Sapo](#): > > Probably along the lines of why people around here cannot conjugate the verb to snow. [hijack]Wait, literally? Like, they’d say, “It snew last night”?[/hijack] ---
**Author:** ![matt\_mcl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/7ab992/32.png) [@matt\_mcl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/matt_mcl)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2010, 3:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-foreign-languages-have-their-own-names-for-american-states/535847/116 "2010-04-15T15:29:19Z")
**storyguide3** is right. It doesn’t really have to do with there being one word; it has to do with the extent to which the name is translatable. The relevant one-word names in Canada are Alberta, Saskatchewan, Manitoba, Ontario, Quebec, Yukon, and Nunavut, and it’s hard to see how English and French would differ on those points. (According to the federal government, the province of Quebec is spelled with an accent in French and without one in English. However, in the same standard, names of _cities_ are never translated, which means that Quebec City should officially be called _Québec (Québec)_ in French and _Québec, Quebec_ in English. _Tirez-en l’autre, il a des cloches attachées._) Moreover, in the case of American states, several one-word states have different forms in French: _la Californie, la Pennsylvanie, Hawaï, la Floride, la Louisiane, la Géorgie, la Virginie_; while some two-word names are not translated: _le New Hampshire, le New Jersey, New York_. The only pattern I can see is that all the one-word provinces in Canada listed above (except Alberta) are derived from Native names, and all the one-word states (except Hawaii) listed above are European, with Latinate endings, which are more readily translated. Really, there’s no guide other than usage. > [@Kyla](#): > > The Bulgarian for Mexico City is…Мексико Сити. They just transliterated the English. I don’t know whose bright idea that was. Interestingly, in French, _le Mexique_ is the country and _Mexico_ is the city. ---
**Author:** ![hankhill911](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/e47c2d/32.png) [@hankhill911](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/hankhill911)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2010, 3:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-foreign-languages-have-their-own-names-for-american-states/535847/117 "2010-04-15T15:29:21Z")
A bit off-topic but it’s amazing how much better cities/states sound in the original language…in a nice language like Italian, for example, the city of Venice is ‘Venezia’ and in German it’s the very ugly ‘Venedig’. Then again, it often works the opposite way as Vienna sounds much better in English than the German Wien (pronounced VEEN) for the Austrian capital…maybe German is just ugly…haha…and a Vienna Schnitzel doesn’t sound right. ---
**Author:** ![Giles](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/giles/32/60_2.png) [@Giles](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Giles)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2010, 3:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-foreign-languages-have-their-own-names-for-american-states/535847/118 "2010-04-15T15:33:19Z")
> [@hankhill911](#): > > and a Vienna Schnitzel doesn’t sound right. “Vienna Schnitzel” (in English) sounds almost the same as “Wiener Schnitzel” (in German). ---
**Author:** ![Svejk\_1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ea666f/32.png) [@Svejk\_1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Svejk_1)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2010, 3:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-foreign-languages-have-their-own-names-for-american-states/535847/119 "2010-04-15T15:41:02Z")
> [@hankhill911](#): > > A bit off-topic but it’s amazing how much better cities/states sound in the original language…in a nice language like Italian, for example, the city of Venice is ‘Venezia’ and in German it’s the very ugly ‘Venedig’. Then again, it often works the opposite way as Vienna sounds much better in English than the German Wien (pronounced VEEN) for the Austrian capital…maybe German is just ugly…haha…and a Vienna Schnitzel doesn’t sound right. I actually think this is … quite silly. German can be quite a pretty language when spoken/written by the right people (as can all languages - I fundamentally disagree that some languages are more euphonious per se than others. They may not sound right if you don’t know them but that is not an absolute thing, but instead really says something about your own linguistic biases. Venedig and Venezia, Vienna and Wien sound just as nice to me. ---
**Author:** ![Floater](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/dc4da7/32.png) [@Floater](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Floater)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2010, 3:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-foreign-languages-have-their-own-names-for-american-states/535847/120 "2010-04-15T15:46:54Z")
> [@hogarth](#): > > … or from native languages (e.g. Quebec). Swedish is not a native language in Canada. [http://www.nordicway.com/search/Quebec.htm](http://www.nordicway.com/search/Quebec.htm) [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-foreign-languages-have-their-own-names-for-american-states/535847.md?page=5) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-foreign-languages-have-their-own-names-for-american-states/535847.md?page=7)