# Do freight trains run on fixed schedules? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [June 26, 2016, 12:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-freight-trains-run-on-fixed-schedules/758398 "2016-06-26T12:26:44Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Bijou\_Drains](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bijou_drains/32/2814_2.png) [@Bijou\_Drains](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bijou_Drains)\ **Post date:** [June 26, 2016, 12:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-freight-trains-run-on-fixed-schedules/758398/1 "2016-06-26T12:26:44Z")
I assume some of them do have a schedule, such as delivering coal to power plants. ---
**Author:** ![campp](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/c5a1d2/32.png) [@campp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/campp)\ **Post date:** [June 26, 2016, 12:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-freight-trains-run-on-fixed-schedules/758398/2 "2016-06-26T12:34:09Z")
Short answer: Yes. Different trains have different priority status, however. A train loaded with UPS trailers or perishables gets priority over, say, a train of empties being returned to home. ---
**Author:** ![leahcim](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/b4bc9f/32.png) [@leahcim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/leahcim)\ **Post date:** [June 26, 2016, 12:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-freight-trains-run-on-fixed-schedules/758398/3 "2016-06-26T12:42:01Z")
Yes, absolutely. It’s the only effective way to manage highly-contented resources like tracks and yards. Can’t have a “surprise” train just showing up expecting to drop of cars at a yard. ---
**Author:** ![Bijou\_Drains](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bijou_drains/32/2814_2.png) [@Bijou\_Drains](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bijou_Drains)\ **Post date:** [June 26, 2016, 12:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-freight-trains-run-on-fixed-schedules/758398/4 "2016-06-26T12:48:13Z")
I guess the number of cars on a train varies with demand? ---
**Author:** ![USCDiver](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/uscdiver/32/354_2.png) [@USCDiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/USCDiver)\ **Post date:** [June 26, 2016, 1:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-freight-trains-run-on-fixed-schedules/758398/5 "2016-06-26T13:04:55Z")
I interpreted the question more as “Do freight trains have a regular daily schedule, like passenger trains?” As opposed to suggesting freight trains are running around and no one know what time they’re arriving. ---
**Author:** ![Bijou\_Drains](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bijou_drains/32/2814_2.png) [@Bijou\_Drains](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bijou_Drains)\ **Post date:** [June 26, 2016, 1:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-freight-trains-run-on-fixed-schedules/758398/6 "2016-06-26T13:05:49Z")
yes I meant do they have a daily schedule like passenger trains? ---
**Author:** ![engineer\_comp\_geek](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/engineer_comp_geek/32/504_2.png) [@engineer\_comp\_geek](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/engineer_comp_geek)\ **Post date:** [June 26, 2016, 1:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-freight-trains-run-on-fixed-schedules/758398/7 "2016-06-26T13:41:29Z")
They don’t run on fixed daily schedules like passenger trains do. Some trains run on a somewhat regular schedule. Some don’t. For example, there are trains that run from steel mills around Lake Michigan over to the car manufacturers, carrying molten steel in big ceramic-lined rail cars. Those run on a fairly fixed schedule. When I worked in a power plant, the rail cars that brought in coal ran fairly regularly, though that was more of a schedule that they would arrive on certain days between certain blocks of time. The timing wasn’t as precise as a passenger train. Other trains will run as needed, depending on how the freight gets scheduled. Passenger trains, because they are tightly scheduled, are given the highest priority for track scheduling. Scheduled freight trains are given a lower priority, and unscheduled freight trains are even lower priority than that. The random delays due to track scheduling conflicts therefore affect freight trains much more severely and further contribute to their less precise scheduling. ---
**Author:** ![watchwolf49](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/e9c0ed/32.png) [@watchwolf49](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/watchwolf49)\ **Post date:** [June 26, 2016, 2:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-freight-trains-run-on-fixed-schedules/758398/8 "2016-06-26T14:03:38Z")
The tracks by my house are used irregularly. It’s a spur route a couple hundred miles long serving lumber mills for the most part. When enough coche are loaded, they’ll send the train up to the mainline and on to the nearest hump yard. If it’s mid-aftenoon, they’ll hold up the lumber trains right here by my house waiting for Amtrak’s _Coast Starlighter_ to pass through. ---
**Author:** ![bob\_2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bob_2/32/3341_2.png) [@bob\_2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bob_2)\ **Post date:** [June 26, 2016, 2:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-freight-trains-run-on-fixed-schedules/758398/9 "2016-06-26T14:12:10Z")
I watched a documentary about ‘named’ trains on British railways. Few remain from the dozens that existed last century, but you may be surprised to hear that the Flying Scotsman still runs, albeit from Edinburgh to London and not the other direction. The Flying Scotsman is a train pulled by an electric locomotive these days and runs from Edinburgh Waverley to London Kings Cross non stop daily in the early morning. The interesting point was how difficult it is to schedule a fast, non stop train, along a very busy line, through dozens of commuter stations. ---
**Author:** ![davida03801](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b5e925/32.png) [@davida03801](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/davida03801)\ **Post date:** [June 26, 2016, 2:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-freight-trains-run-on-fixed-schedules/758398/10 "2016-06-26T14:25:44Z")
> [@engineer\_comp\_geek](#): > > They don’t run on fixed daily schedules like passenger trains do. > > For example, there are trains that run from steel mills around Lake Michigan over to the car manufacturers, carrying molten steel in big ceramic-lined rail cars. Those run on a fairly fixed schedule. Why are their trains running around with molten metal in lieu of fabricated steel products the auto companies need ? ---
**Author:** ![watchwolf49](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/e9c0ed/32.png) [@watchwolf49](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/watchwolf49)\ **Post date:** [June 26, 2016, 2:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-freight-trains-run-on-fixed-schedules/758398/11 "2016-06-26T14:46:25Z")
> [@davida03801](#): > > Why are their trains running around with molten metal in lieu of fabricated steel products the auto companies need ? I’m trying to visualize 25 million pounds of molten steel chugging through downtown Chicago … a little help here, please … I must be blind or something. ---
**Author:** ![bob\_2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bob_2/32/3341_2.png) [@bob\_2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bob_2)\ **Post date:** [June 26, 2016, 3:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-freight-trains-run-on-fixed-schedules/758398/12 "2016-06-26T15:08:51Z")
This is what they look like: [![](https://img.youtube.com/vi/YXTXJoEGGW8/hqdefault.jpg "U.S. Steel, hot metal car move from blast furnace, 2007") ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YXTXJoEGGW8) ---
**Author:** ![bob\_2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bob_2/32/3341_2.png) [@bob\_2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bob_2)\ **Post date:** [June 26, 2016, 3:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-freight-trains-run-on-fixed-schedules/758398/13 "2016-06-26T15:10:21Z")
> [@davida03801](#): > > Why are their trains running around with molten metal in lieu of fabricated steel products the auto companies need ? I am guessing that they use it for cast steel parts like engine blocks. Cheaper than re-melting ingots. ---
**Author:** ![engineer\_comp\_geek](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/engineer_comp_geek/32/504_2.png) [@engineer\_comp\_geek](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/engineer_comp_geek)\ **Post date:** [June 26, 2016, 3:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-freight-trains-run-on-fixed-schedules/758398/14 "2016-06-26T15:19:13Z")
The molten steel is poured into ceramic-lined rail cars called “pigs” (some people call them “torpedo cars”). This is what they look like: The part carrying the steel rotates to dump the steel out when they get to the destination. As to why they deliver molten steel instead of pre-formed parts, the latter would require the steel mill to build a significant part of a car manufacturing plant on-site. The steel mills do ship over rolled steel and steel slabs as well. It’s not all molten when it leaves the mill. There are a few steel pigs in this video starting at around the 17:45 mark or so. This is east Chicago according to the video. An Amtrack train comes whizzing through at about the 4:50 mark. [![](https://img.youtube.com/vi/_EeRO7asaek/hqdefault.jpg "Midday at CP 502, East Chicago, IN on 06.06.11: NS, CSX, IHB, CN, IC, BNSF, Amtrak & Mill Switchers") ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_EeRO7asaek) ---
**Author:** ![Duke\_of\_Rat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ad7895/32.png) [@Duke\_of\_Rat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Duke_of_Rat)\ **Post date:** [June 26, 2016, 4:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-freight-trains-run-on-fixed-schedules/758398/15 "2016-06-26T16:44:19Z")
Totally anecdotal, but I have to cross a major BNSF set of (freight train only) tracks daily going to and from work, plus another two times if I go home for lunch. I leave for work the same time every day, leave work the same time every day (as well as to/from lunch), so I have a fairly narrow window of crossing those tracks, and I never know if I’ll catch a train. If freight trains were on a set schedule, it’d make it easier to avoid catching one, but there are so many trains on those tracks that it’s inevitable that I’ll catch at least part of one nearly every day. ---
**Author:** ![Corry\_El](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ecae2f/32.png) [@Corry\_El](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Corry_El)\ **Post date:** [June 26, 2016, 6:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-freight-trains-run-on-fixed-schedules/758398/16 "2016-06-26T18:05:40Z")
Molten steel cars generally travel over very short distances, like within the same steel complex or adjacent facilities, for different steps of the steel making process. That’s what both of the video links either say or imply they’re depicting, and what I’ve always seen. The original statement implied, though to be fair it didn’t actually say, it might be molten steel from a steel mill in Great Lakes region to a car factory a couple of states over. That seems to be how it was read by some. I’ve never heard of that. On general question, non-passenger train schedules are to passenger train schedules more or less like non-passenger ship or a/c schedules were or are to those forms of passenger transportation. Some run on fairly precise schedules (main line freights, container ships), some less so but regular (somebody knows when a tanker is going to show up at a refinery but it’s not the same day every week necessarily, etc), others as needed. None put quite the emphasis on being on time as airline flights (though might actually exceed the timeliness of airline flights when latter really stinks). ---
**Author:** ![engineer\_comp\_geek](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/engineer_comp_geek/32/504_2.png) [@engineer\_comp\_geek](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/engineer_comp_geek)\ **Post date:** [June 26, 2016, 7:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-freight-trains-run-on-fixed-schedules/758398/17 "2016-06-26T19:37:38Z")
> [@Corry\_El](#): > > Molten steel cars generally travel over very short distances, like within the same steel complex or adjacent facilities, for different steps of the steel making process. That’s what both of the video links either say or imply they’re depicting, and what I’ve always seen. The original statement implied, though to be fair it didn’t actually say, it might be molten steel from a steel mill in Great Lakes region to a car factory a couple of states over. That seems to be how it was read by some. I’ve never heard of that. I didn’t mean to imply that it went to different states. It does however sometimes travel a fair distance around the shore of Lake Michigan, more than just from one facility to an adjacent facility. I don’t actually know the farthest distance that they went from the steel mill where I worked. I think they traveled about half an hour away at the most. Once the molten steel goes into the pigs, you’ve got about 6 to 8 hours to get it out again. Otherwise it solidifies and the only way you are getting it out then is with a bunch of blowtorches (which I’ve seen them do). The pigs sit around for a bit while they are being loaded and unloaded, so really you’ve only got a couple of hours of transit time on the top end. That’s not going to get you to another state. ---
**Author:** ![Senegoid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/senegoid/32/6606_2.png) [@Senegoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Senegoid)\ **Post date:** [June 26, 2016, 7:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-freight-trains-run-on-fixed-schedules/758398/18 "2016-06-26T19:47:35Z")
> [@davida03801](#): > > Why are their trains running around with molten metal in lieu of fabricated steel products the auto companies need ? :eek: If one of those trains derails with the molten steel cars, that could get ugly! Ouch! ---
**Author:** ![wolfstu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/d6d6ee/32.png) [@wolfstu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wolfstu)\ **Post date:** [June 26, 2016, 10:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-freight-trains-run-on-fixed-schedules/758398/19 "2016-06-26T22:29:01Z")
From what I understand, they haven’t generally run freight railroads on fixed timetables, but have been moving in that direction. CN is one of the leaders in the regard: > [@"\[CN](#): > > ([http://www.cnworldwide.com/en-CA/GlobalShipping/South-AmericanTransportation/index.aspx](http://www.cnworldwide.com/en-CA/GlobalShipping/South-AmericanTransportation/index.aspx))"] > CN Worldwide offers: > • An extensive North American rail network and access to key ports on the east coast, as well as the Gulf coast > • Direct connections through the Port of New Orleans provide the fastest transit times to Western Canada > • Access to Eastern Canadian markets via the Port of Montreal and Halifax > • Access to East Coast consumer markets in the U.S. heartland via U.S. East Coast ports > • Rail network in North America that is positioned close to the largest number of receivers > • The right equipment and infrastructure to transport your products > • **A proven track record as North America’s scheduled railroad** serving Canada, the U.S. and Mexico > • Transportation and market expertise, including supply chain logistics From the company’s 2005 annual report: [quote=“[CN 2005 annual report (PDF)] ([Redirect Notice](https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=6&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=0ahUKEwjpp5mf28bNAhVJ94MKHeWcAbIQFgg4MAU&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.cn.ca%2Fen%2F-%2Fmedia%2FFiles%2FInvestors%2FInvestor-Annual-Report-Archive%2FEnglish%2F2005-CN-Annual-Report.pdf&usg=AFQjCNGbAVo-9-r-5l561wJJ__yoS3FuFw&sig2=OCkC5TJwOlNXp4dk4MYUIw&bvm=bv.125596728,d.amc))”] As the first true scheduled railroad with a string of other industry-leading initiatives… … The “scheduled railroad” is the foundation for the Company’s business model. For CN’s merchandise business, the scheduled railroad, which is defined as a trip plan for every car measured in hours, has reduced transit times, improved the consistency of CN’s transportation product, dramatically improved productivity and helped to improve network capacity [/quote] From the CN CEO in 2001: > [@"\[Paul](#): > > ([http://www.railwaygazette.com/news/single-view/view/privatised-cn-is-north-america39s-most-successful-railroad.html](http://www.railwaygazette.com/news/single-view/view/privatised-cn-is-north-america39s-most-successful-railroad.html))"]The CN of today is the product of a series of revolutions - a sweeping financial turnaround followed by privatisation; Nafta-driven expansion in the USA; and CN’s emergence as North America’s only scheduled freight railroad. I don’t really know to what extent other railways have picked this up since then, but in late 2015, when Canadian Pacific and Norfolk Southern were proposing a merger, [this trade magazine article](http://www.railwayage.com/index.php/blogs/frank-n-wilner/cp-ns-voting-trust-and-other-conundrums.html) said: > [@](#): > > If history is a guide, and the CP-NS management swap occurs, Harrison will attempt to turn NS into a scheduled railroad, substituting high hourly pay for existing fixed trip-rates and guaranteeing train crews more predictable days off and starting times. ---
**Author:** ![Melbourne](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/b5e925/32.png) [@Melbourne](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Melbourne)\ **Post date:** [June 27, 2016, 12:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-freight-trains-run-on-fixed-schedules/758398/20 "2016-06-27T00:37:37Z")
> [@Bijou\_Drains](#): > > I assume some of them do have a schedule, such as delivering coal to power plants. I believe that back when railways did reatail freight, there were scheduled local freight trains that did pickup and delivery. And although freight wasn’t “scheduled”, that didm’t mean that there weren’t planned regular services. I think it meant more like the old Greyhound schedule: more buses if there were more passengers, fewer buses if there were fewer pasengers, buses and drivers and passengers allocated as needed. And once the start time for a train was established, there would be expected arrival times. Some reasons why freight was “unscheduled”: It could get shunted aside for higher priority. Cars wouldn’t get added to a regular train if it was full. Cars wouldn’t get added to a regular train if there was a higher priority car. Trains wouldn’t run if there was a staffing or equipment shortange. Start time would depend on all of the above and on anything else. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-freight-trains-run-on-fixed-schedules/758398.md?page=2)