# Do gays really just hurt themselves with "blatant" advertising? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [June 19, 2012, 5:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-gays-really-just-hurt-themselves-with-blatant-advertising/625660 "2012-06-19T17:24:04Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![Valteron](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/f17d59/32.png) [@Valteron](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Valteron)\ **Post date:** [June 19, 2012, 8:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-gays-really-just-hurt-themselves-with-blatant-advertising/625660/61 "2012-06-19T20:57:12Z")
> [@Maastricht](#): > > Just answering the OP: I think that is a very sweet and necessary tv commercial. > In fact, when I read the OP, I wondered if it was yet again about the almost annual “Do flamboyant gays harm other gay’s acceptance”-debate. > Each year, after the Gay parade sends flamboyant gays in [glittery pink thongs on boats](http://www.amsterdamgaypride.nl/gayguide/canal_parade.html?sub=photos&photos_id=566&page=2)down the Amsterdam Canals, like clockwork that debate starts up again. Well, as a non-flamboyant gay I sometimes DO get sort of embarassed that many people think the drag queen in a feather boa is representative of all of us. But then again, I would cut off my right arm before I betray my belief that people must respect differences, and not persecute those who may seem strange or off-beat, as long as they aren’t hurting you or interefering with your rights. ---
**Author:** ![astro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/9dc877/32.png) [@astro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/astro)\ **Post date:** [June 19, 2012, 9:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-gays-really-just-hurt-themselves-with-blatant-advertising/625660/62 "2012-06-19T21:09:18Z")
> [@Inner\_Stickler](#): > > I don’t really care. Statistically, there is no fight for rights to be made in the younger generations. They get it already. If people in their 60s or 70s get cranky about it, well, paradigms shift one funeral at a time. You think the majority of young, heterosexual American males “get it” and are perfectly comfortable with man on man snogging in their presence? Good luck with that fascinating hypothesis. There are lots of people across the heterosexual demographic who are 100% on board with gay rights but are somewhat uneasy with gay men getting physical with each other. It does not make them bigots. ---
**Author:** ![Inner\_Stickler](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/inner_stickler/32/318_2.png) [@Inner\_Stickler](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Inner_Stickler)\ **Post date:** [June 19, 2012, 9:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-gays-really-just-hurt-themselves-with-blatant-advertising/625660/63 "2012-06-19T21:13:10Z")
> [@astro](#): > > You think the majority of young, heterosexual American males “get it” and are perfectly comfortable with man on man snogging in their presence? Good luck with that fascinating hypothesis. :rolleyes: First of all, I said generation. The homophobic young men in America are more than outgunned by the non-homophobic young women. And, yes, when removed from situations where they feel societal pressure to assert their heterosexuality, most of the time, I find them to be perfectly progressive. Anyway, the difference between straight and gay is about 6 beers. ---
**Author:** ![mister\_nyx](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/df705f/32.png) [@mister\_nyx](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mister_nyx)\ **Post date:** [June 19, 2012, 9:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-gays-really-just-hurt-themselves-with-blatant-advertising/625660/64 "2012-06-19T21:20:13Z")
> [@astro](#): > > You think the majority of young, heterosexual American males “get it” and are perfectly comfortable with man on man snogging in their presence? Good luck with that fascinating hypothesis. > > There are lots of people across the heterosexual demographic who are 100% on board with gay rights but are somewhat uneasy with gay men getting physical with each other. It does not make them bigots. I know a lot of them who are, actually. And pretty indisputably the onus is on the rest of them to learn to be comfortable with it. Normalizing it by showing it on TV and not hiding who we are in public seems to me like the most sensible way to help the rest of these young heterosexual American males improve themselves. ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [June 19, 2012, 10:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-gays-really-just-hurt-themselves-with-blatant-advertising/625660/65 "2012-06-19T22:22:19Z")
> [@astro](#): > > You think the majority of young, heterosexual American males “get it” and are perfectly comfortable with man on man snogging in their presence? Good luck with that fascinating hypothesis. I think the majority of people who are okay with gay rights are not particularly distressed by the sight of two men kissing. And since youth is directly correlated with acceptance of gay rights, it seems likely that young, heterosexual Americans in general are probably pretty comfortable with two guys kissing in their presence. ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [June 19, 2012, 11:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-gays-really-just-hurt-themselves-with-blatant-advertising/625660/66 "2012-06-19T23:43:46Z")
> [@astro](#): > > You think the majority of young, heterosexual American males “get it” and are perfectly comfortable with man on man snogging in their presence? Good luck with that fascinating hypothesis. > > There are lots of people across the heterosexual demographic who are 100% on board with gay rights but are somewhat uneasy with gay men getting physical with each other. It does not make them bigots. I think most people are annoyed by excessive tongue wrestling in public, period. In the case of the ad, it was a man greeting his boyfriend who had been away at war. Obviously, you’d see some more enthusiastic displays. Most of the time, gay or straight, people are usually pretty much hold hands, simple kiss. I think we’ve all yelled, (or at least thought), “Get a room!” at a straight couple. ---
**Author:** ![drewtwo99](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/d07c76/32.png) [@drewtwo99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/drewtwo99)\ **Post date:** [June 19, 2012, 11:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-gays-really-just-hurt-themselves-with-blatant-advertising/625660/67 "2012-06-19T23:57:48Z")
Haha!!! Wow. I read through this entire thread before watching the video, and I am insanely aghast that anyone could even be remotely grossed out by this. This wasn’t even heavy making out. In fact, it wasn’t even making out at all. It was 2 kisses, possibly without even any tongue. After a guy comes home from war. And his boyfriend proposes to him. If anything like that happened to anyone here, I think you’d see a LOT more passionate kissing that what we saw in that ad. If that grossed you out, then… I feel sorry for you! I know you can’t help it, which is why I feel sorry for you. I hope stuff like that won’t continue to gross you out for your whole lives. ---
**Author:** ![Sitnam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/6a8cbe/32.png) [@Sitnam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sitnam)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2012, 12:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-gays-really-just-hurt-themselves-with-blatant-advertising/625660/68 "2012-06-20T00:20:35Z")
> [@Ibn\_Warraq](#): > > Saying that you’re not homophobic but don’t like seeing two guys kiss in public is like saying you’re not an Islamophobe or a bigot, but you get upset at seeing women wearing Burkas or Hijabs and supporting laws banning the wearing of them. To be fair here, the ire over the burkas and hijabs is their perception that the women wearing them aren’t allowed a choice thereby subjecting them to a lesser station below men, a situation then exists of which a ‘free society’ is complicit in oppression. And perhaps they have a point. ‘Misunderstanding’ would be the harshest accusation you can level at most of them. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2012, 12:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-gays-really-just-hurt-themselves-with-blatant-advertising/625660/69 "2012-06-20T00:23:04Z")
> [@Valteron](#): > > First of all, congratulations for coming around to support for gay marriage. We have a saying in French that only an idiot never chnages his mind. Your willingness to be convinced of an opposing viewpoint does not signify intellectual weakness but intellectual honesty. > > May I ask what the “keystone” argument was that changed your mind? I would be fascinated to know. For me, it wasn’t so much that I was convinced by arguments for it. I was convinced by the weakness of arguments _against_ it. That, and a gradual realization as I grew up that gay people weren’t icky. I’m not entirely sure, but I think I had already come to that realization before I joined the Dope. Not entirely certain, though. [QUOTE=drewtwo99] Haha!!! Wow. I read through this entire thread before watching the video, and I am insanely aghast that anyone could even be remotely grossed out by this. [/QUOTE] I don’t think anyone in the thread has been grossed out. **tdn** appears to have been mildly uncomfortable about it. ---
**Author:** ![Lamia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/8e7dd6/32.png) [@Lamia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lamia)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2012, 12:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-gays-really-just-hurt-themselves-with-blatant-advertising/625660/70 "2012-06-20T00:35:50Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > You’re missing the point, at least with regard to media portrayals. Sure, there are effeminate gay men - but not _all_ gay men are effeminate, yet that’s the only kind of gay man you see on TV. It’s not even the only kind of gay man you see on _Glee_. That particular show has two gay teen boys in the main cast, and two others who were significant recurring characters. A major character is also the daughter of a gay couple, although her dads (played by Jeff Goldblum and Brian Stokes Mitchell) have only appeared onscreen a couple of times. > [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > Probably. I’m not exactly a fan of the show, but I get the impression that it’s certainly reinforcing the meathead jock and whore cheerleader stereotypes. This thread is about gays, though (and presumably the rest of the LGBT community). Bit of a spoiler, but one of those meathead jocks on _Glee_ is gay. One of the slutty cheerleaders was also a closet case who was sleeping with guys primarily to keep people from guessing the truth about her.FWIW _Glee_ is also one of the few shows to regularly feature non-white LGBT characters. Although the show has plenty of problems, lack of diversity of LGBT characters isn’t really one of them. ---
**Author:** ![mister\_nyx](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/df705f/32.png) [@mister\_nyx](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mister_nyx)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2012, 12:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-gays-really-just-hurt-themselves-with-blatant-advertising/625660/71 "2012-06-20T00:36:00Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > I don’t think anyone in the thread has been grossed out. **tdn** appears to have been mildly uncomfortable about it. Perhaps you missed all of astro’s [del]concern trolling[/del] posts. ---
**Author:** ![Fake\_Tales\_of\_San\_Francisco](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/8491ac/32.png) [@Fake\_Tales\_of\_San\_Francisco](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fake_Tales_of_San_Francisco)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2012, 12:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-gays-really-just-hurt-themselves-with-blatant-advertising/625660/72 "2012-06-20T00:51:09Z")
> [@Anaamika](#): > > FTR, I am totally straight so that bullshit line about “only gay people find this couple sweet and loveable” is just that - bullshit. But are you female? The reason I ask is, it dawned on me the other day that I find it _kind of_ ‘gross’ whenever people I don’t find attractive kiss. This advert doesn’t make me feel uncomfortable per se, but I do have a similar internal reaction to others when two guys kiss. Two girls kissing on the other hand would almost always not create this reaction. I’ve seen heterosexual couples kiss in public where I’ve been very much grossed out, far more so than my reaction to this video. I realised this is because those particular couples weren’t exactly what you’d call attractive, very much the opposite. Is that bad? Maybe it is, but it’s not like I can control those reactions. Regardless, I’m sure my feelings have nothing to do with the fact that they’re gay. And I definitely support this video. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2012, 12:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-gays-really-just-hurt-themselves-with-blatant-advertising/625660/73 "2012-06-20T00:54:45Z")
> [@Lamia](#): > > It’s not even the only kind of gay man you see on _Glee_. That particular show has two gay teen boys in the main cast, and two others who were significant recurring characters. A major character is also the daughter of a gay couple, although her dads (played by Jeff Goldblum and Brian Stokes Mitchell) have only appeared onscreen a couple of times. > > Bit of a spoiler, but one of those meathead jocks on _Glee_ is gay. One of the slutty cheerleaders was also a closet case who was sleeping with guys primarily to keep people from guessing the truth about her.FWIW _Glee_ is also one of the few shows to regularly feature non-white LGBT characters. Although the show has plenty of problems, lack of diversity of LGBT characters isn’t really one of them. Yeah, I admitted a bit further up that I was wrong about Glee. > [@mister\_nyx](#): > > Perhaps you missed all of astro’s [del]concern trolling[/del] posts. I meant **astro** , not **tdn**. _Mea culpa_. ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2012, 12:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-gays-really-just-hurt-themselves-with-blatant-advertising/625660/74 "2012-06-20T00:57:05Z")
> [@Ibn\_Warraq](#): > > Saying that you’re not homophobic but don’t like seeing two guys kiss in public is like saying you’re not an Islamophobe or a bigot, but you get upset at seeing women wearing Burkas or Hijabs and supporting laws banning the wearing of them. Not necessarily. I don’t like watching men kiss each other; but then, I don’t like watching men kiss women or puppies either. There’s just something about men kissing that bugs me; gay porn with close ups of anal sex gets a shrug, but kissing gets a “yuck”. Why? I’ve no idea. ---
**Author:** ![florez](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/b9e5f3/32.png) [@florez](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/florez)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2012, 1:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-gays-really-just-hurt-themselves-with-blatant-advertising/625660/75 "2012-06-20T01:05:18Z")
> [@Sitnam](#): > > To be fair here, the ire over the burkas and hijabs is their perception that the women wearing them aren’t allowed a choice thereby subjecting them to a lesser station below men, a situation then exists of which a ‘free society’ is complicit in oppression. > > And perhaps they have a point. > > ‘Misunderstanding’ would be the harshest accusation you can level at most of them. If that really is the reason for the ire over seeing women wear traditional head coverings, then it is stereotyping a group of people, in that many Muslim women do so by choice. It is also arrogant and ignorant to assume to know the reason a woman wears a burka or hijab, just as it is arrogant and ignorant to assume that all gay men are effeminate. ---
**Author:** ![astro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/9dc877/32.png) [@astro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/astro)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2012, 1:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-gays-really-just-hurt-themselves-with-blatant-advertising/625660/76 "2012-06-20T01:16:35Z")
> [@mister\_nyx](#): > > Perhaps you missed all of astro’s [del]concern trolling[/del] posts. So my statement of support for gay rights, while at the same time expressing that I was not all that personally comfortable watching two men share soulful kisses was “trolling”. I had no idea that dilemma would give you such a case of the vapors. Sorry about that. It’s good to know where you set the bar for people being able to support gay rights or discuss issues openly and honestly. Best of luck with that position. ---
**Author:** ![mister\_nyx](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/df705f/32.png) [@mister\_nyx](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mister_nyx)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2012, 1:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-gays-really-just-hurt-themselves-with-blatant-advertising/625660/77 "2012-06-20T01:23:32Z")
> [@astro](#): > > So my statement of support for gay rights, while at the same time expressing that I was not all that personally comfortable watching two men share soulful kisses was “trolling”. I had no idea that dilemma would give you such a case of the vapors. Sorry about that. > > It’s good to know where you set the bar for people being able to support gay rights or discuss issues openly and honestly. Best of luck with that position. Actually, it was the part where you repeatedly argued that we shouldn’t depict gay people doing normal things in TV commercials and pretended that it was for our benefit because you knew best. That was the part that constituted concern trolling. ---
**Author:** ![astro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/9dc877/32.png) [@astro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/astro)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2012, 1:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-gays-really-just-hurt-themselves-with-blatant-advertising/625660/78 "2012-06-20T01:37:54Z")
> [@mister\_nyx](#): > > Actually, it was the part where you repeatedly argued that we shouldn’t depict gay people doing normal things in TV commercials and pretended that it was for our benefit because you knew best. That was the part that constituted concern trolling. Wow…did I do that with respect to the OP’s question? Let’s see Initial comment > [@](#): > > I just watched the commercial. It’s mixed. > > I consider myself quite gay friendly, but watching two men giving each other loving, soulful mouth to mouth kisses does make me more than a bit uncomfortable. I’m not “squicked”, but the message of respect for all kinds of love is a bit lost in my reaction to the PDA lip lock. > > If it was trying for a respect and tolerance message there are better ways it could (IMO) have gone about it without the deep kiss . and then > [@](#): > > Originally Posted by Valteron > Well, telling gays they cannot do what straight people have done a hundred million times in movies and TV and which they do by the millions in public places every day does imply something unequal, don’t you think? Of course there ARE places where deep kissing is inappropriate. In church, in the aisle of a grocery store, in line at the DMV, you name it. But this video shows a homecoming, in which people are greeting returning combatants. I think we all agree that it is normal and appropriate for straights to deep kiss in such a situation. > > I do not fault you for feeling uncomfortable. You are what you are and you feel what you feel. But do you think your reaction to the lip lock would diminish if you saw that kind of thing more often? > [@](#): > > Originally Posted by Astro > > Maybe, who knows. My reaction was visceral and not a deeply reasoned response. I’m guessing this will be true for large chunk of the intended heterosexual audience. > > The “how dare you be offended by these loving men doing the same thing straights do” position may be a perfectly valid ethical position, but the commercial is still transgressive of many peoples PDA boundaries, and will garner a large portion of visceral reactions. Is that smart advertising if the message goal is expanded tolerance and respect? Yeah… wow - I see now I was really being brutally oppressive. Those over the top comments about how the commercials might have some difficultly re heterosexual audience reactions to the PDA were waaay out of bounds. ---
**Author:** ![mister\_nyx](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/df705f/32.png) [@mister\_nyx](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mister_nyx)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2012, 1:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-gays-really-just-hurt-themselves-with-blatant-advertising/625660/79 "2012-06-20T01:52:14Z")
You spoke out against a commercial whose content should be completely unremarkable, attempted to couch what you said in faux concern for gay rights, and talked down to gay people by explaining how straight people react to us, as though we aren’t all much more familiar with that topic than you are. [QUOTE=astro] Yeah… wow - I see now I was really being brutally oppressive. [/QUOTE] So the standard you set for yourself is not being “brutally oppressive”, then. I set a higher standard than that for myself. Since you’re congratulating yourself on meeting that low standard, I don’t think we’re going to reach a meeting of minds on this point. ---
**Author:** ![Ibn\_Warraq](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/e19b73/32.png) [@Ibn\_Warraq](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ibn_Warraq)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2012, 2:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-gays-really-just-hurt-themselves-with-blatant-advertising/625660/80 "2012-06-20T02:04:41Z")
> [@Sitnam](#): > > ‘Misunderstanding’ would be the harshest accusation you can level at most of them. If those same people shit their pants every time they saw Amish women or Hasidic Jewish women in their traditional wear you’d have a point, but with rare exceptions they don’t. No, bigotry is still bigotry and it’s especially hypocritical coming from people claiming that women should be allowed to choose what they want to wear. FWIW, I’m not talking about Afghanistan or the handful of Muslim countries where such outfits are proscribed by law(which are outnumbered by states where they are actually prohibitted by law). [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-gays-really-just-hurt-themselves-with-blatant-advertising/625660.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-gays-really-just-hurt-themselves-with-blatant-advertising/625660.md?page=5)