# Do girls still need special treatment? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [February 14, 2016, 5:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-girls-still-need-special-treatment/746095 "2016-02-14T05:31:05Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![Urbanredneck](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ea5d25/32.png) [@Urbanredneck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Urbanredneck)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2016, 2:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-girls-still-need-special-treatment/746095/61 "2016-02-16T14:23:35Z")
> [@Grrr](#): > > Good lord. Gimme a damn break. > > And I have a hard time believing they change in the same locker room. You do realize their are careers and situations where men and women need to change and even sleep in the same room. Firefighters. Persons working in remote locations with few facilities. Sometimes one needs to deal with modesty. You stay at a youth hostel and sometimes its just one big space. ---
**Author:** ![Dangerosa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/22d042/32.png) [@Dangerosa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dangerosa)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2016, 3:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-girls-still-need-special-treatment/746095/62 "2016-02-16T15:47:23Z")
> [@nearwildheaven](#): > > If you look at at old newspaper want ads, you’ll see “Jobs For Men” and “Jobs For Women”. :rolleyes: However, there are still situations where employers can request one gender or another - those where the opposite gender does not belong in that place. I saw this a few years ago when a men’s prison in my area placed an ad for RNs to work at their intake clinic - male RNs only. > > When I told that story on another board, of course there had to be a troublemaker who must have asked me in 10 separate posts, “But why couldn’t they just hire women nurses and have security guards in the room?” I finally got to the point where I offered to get that prison’s contact information and send it to her so she wouldn’t ask me again, but she finally either backed off or found someone else to harass. Yep. Men tend to make lousy strippers in clubs catering to hetero men. Actors tend to be gender cast - roles are usually defined as male or female. If a woman can (and a few can) perform the physical tasks required to be a fireman or Army Ranger, they should be permitted, but safety and job performance shouldn’t be compromised simply to fill a gender quota (the standards also need to be examined in such cases to make sure they aren’t unnecessarily discriminatory. But with firemen a hell of a lot of strength is required to be able to lift people while wearing gear, if necessary) ---
**Author:** ![swampspruce](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/swampspruce/32/261_2.png) [@swampspruce](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/swampspruce)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2016, 3:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-girls-still-need-special-treatment/746095/63 "2016-02-16T15:54:13Z")
I find this topic interesting because I more or less expected most school systems were like the one I attended in the 70s-80s (I graduated HS in 1985). In Jr High and High school we had the option to attend Home Ec and Shop with no expectation of gender bias. I took electronics, small engine repair, cooking and woodworking plus a semester of sewing. It certainly wasn’t a 50/50 split but we at least had the option available. I believe that there are occasions where not having the opposite gender around can be beneficial to learning, especially around the time puberty is starting to hit. ---
**Author:** ![Dangerosa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/22d042/32.png) [@Dangerosa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dangerosa)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2016, 3:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-girls-still-need-special-treatment/746095/64 "2016-02-16T15:56:30Z")
> [@Urbanredneck](#): > > I’ve seen schools where there is hardly a man in the building, even to the middle school level. Not just female teachers but principal, PE teacher, even the janitor. Not a male role model in the building. We have a huge push to get women and non-Asian minorities into STEM fields. We need a simultaneous huge push to get men into working with children. But some parts of society have the fucked up notion that men interested in working with children are pedophiles. You can’t hire people if there aren’t candidates. Its one of the issues engineering companies have with diversity - there are simply not a lot black engineers. Not many female engineers. And the Venn of the overlap is really small. So, if we want to push more men into being role models for children, should we have special treatment for them to get into those careers? Perhaps, when boys show an aptitude for working with younger children, have special babysitting classes just for the boys so they aren’t the only boy in the room and don’t feel uncomfortable? Or a “big brother” type mentoring program where high school boys work with elementary school kids? Should we make a conscious push to remove the stigma associated with men who do work that has traditionally been the domain of women - like elementary school teachers? ---
**Author:** ![Anaamika](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/5f9b8f/32.png) [@Anaamika](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Anaamika)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2016, 4:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-girls-still-need-special-treatment/746095/65 "2016-02-16T16:00:54Z")
I don’t know why, to get the same rights as a man, I have to be just like a man. Because it sure sounds like that’s what’s being said here. I liked having all-girl things sometimes, like others have said, it takes the whole boy-girl dynamic right out of the picture. It’s good for girls to learn to trust each other, work together, etc. When I was growing up, I did take a wood shop class - I was the only girl in it. I also took home ec - there were a couple of boys. I also was part of Girl Scouts and had a great time, sewing yes, camping yes, hiking yes. We did a bit of everything, and it was nice not having the boys around at a time when most of them were all “hurr hurr…girls. boobs.” Hell, some fully grown men can’t refrain from such things - look at the rules we had to implement on this very board. “Don’t come in asking to see boobs when someone is having a serious discussion about cancer, or bras,” for example. As for careers and situations where men and women have to change in the same room, they generally chose that career. I have a hard time believing little boys and girls are allowed to change in the same room, and if so, that’s skeevy. Don’t tell me teenage boys are not troublemakers, especially in groups. ---
**Author:** ![Dangerosa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/22d042/32.png) [@Dangerosa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dangerosa)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2016, 4:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-girls-still-need-special-treatment/746095/66 "2016-02-16T16:01:57Z")
> [@swampspruce](#): > > I find this topic interesting because I more or less expected most school systems were like the one I attended in the 70s-80s (I graduated HS in 1985). In Jr High and High school we had the option to attend Home Ec and Shop with no expectation of gender bias. I took electronics, small engine repair, cooking and woodworking plus a semester of sewing. It certainly wasn’t a 50/50 split but we at least had the option available. > I believe that there are occasions where not having the opposite gender around can be beneficial to learning, especially around the time puberty is starting to hit. When my father was in middle school (he graduated from high school in 1963 or so) he ended up registering late and was the only boy in “teenage party planning” - a home ec class. i.e. the option has been available for a LONG time. The issue is that we tend to self segregate along both racial and gender lines. One of the outcomes of the 1970s feminist movement were that there were a lot of mothers pushing their children outside of gender norms - boys need to learn to cook, girls need basic auto maintenance. Now, we have less judgement about gender norms, but are less likely to push. ---
**Author:** ![ZPG\_Zealot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/e47c2d/32.png) [@ZPG\_Zealot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ZPG_Zealot)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2016, 4:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-girls-still-need-special-treatment/746095/67 "2016-02-16T16:05:45Z")
> [@Urbanredneck](#): > > Oh you poor little princess. > > Their are girls on my sons hockey team who play just as rough and tough as the boys and they even change in the same locker room. If your daughter isnt that tough, she needs to be. > > And the thing is those girls playing hockey with the boys will in 20 years be the business women who can work side by side and even over any man and who wont be intimidated by them. > > Beside in school they have integrated PE, shop, science labs, and home ec classes and the kids handle it. Yeah maybe a girls bra strap will show and the boys will act stupid but you know, tough shit. Get used to it girl. Then get use to it boy, that every girl or woman you encounter is going to view you first as a potential rapist and attacker and assume the necessary hostile attitude for that situation. Girls don’t develop the self-confidence by throwing them in defenseless to a Lord of the Flies situation. Adults need to help mentor and train them to develop their defensives and abilities. And sexual harassment is not excusable by boys attacking stupid. If the boys “are acting stupid” they should be punished for their stupidity. ---
**Author:** ![ZPG\_Zealot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/e47c2d/32.png) [@ZPG\_Zealot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ZPG_Zealot)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2016, 4:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-girls-still-need-special-treatment/746095/68 "2016-02-16T16:13:27Z")
> [@Urbanredneck](#): > > You do realize their are careers and situations where men and women need to change and even sleep in the same room. Firefighters. Persons working in remote locations with few facilities. Sometimes one needs to deal with modesty. You stay at a youth hostel and sometimes its just one big space. I have lived most of my life in large multi-generation families in which many people of different sexes related by various degrees (some easily within marrying possibilities of the other) frequently shared one living space (building, large house, or camp ground with communal water facilities). One of the things that quickly becomes glaringly apparent is that segregated living space (unmarried men in one area, unmarried women in another and never the twain shall meet) is the easiest, least embarrassing way to go about sharing quarters. It’s also been my observation in places of where genders are mixed this often quickly becomes the norm by custom. ---
**Author:** ![Bridget\_Burke](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7cd45c/32.png) [@Bridget\_Burke](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bridget_Burke)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2016, 4:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-girls-still-need-special-treatment/746095/69 "2016-02-16T16:27:12Z")
> [@Urbanredneck](#): > > I’ve seen schools where there is hardly a man in the building, even to the middle school level. Not just female teachers but principal, PE teacher, even the janitor. Not a male role model in the building. I’m old enough to remember when there were _no_ men working in elementary schools. Except for the janitors. Surprised that you found no men in middle schools–were women r_eally_ coaching the football team? Why not set up some special programs for boys? To encourage them in the caring careers. Nowadays we have many female doctors–but I also know more men going into nursing. You need to let more boys know that lower-paying & lower-prestige careers are good choices–for at least some of them. ---
**Author:** ![nearwildheaven](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/90db22/32.png) [@nearwildheaven](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/nearwildheaven)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2016, 6:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-girls-still-need-special-treatment/746095/70 "2016-02-16T18:35:32Z")
> [@Bridget\_Burke](#): > > I’m old enough to remember when there were _no_ men working in elementary schools. Except for the janitors. Surprised that you found no men in middle schools–were women r_eally_ coaching the football team? Except for the principals. :dubious: People are often skeptical when I tell them that my elementary and junior high principals were always women, and this was in the 1970s. There were also several male teachers at the elementary school. ---
**Author:** ![Lamia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/8e7dd6/32.png) [@Lamia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lamia)\ **Post date:** [February 17, 2016, 12:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-girls-still-need-special-treatment/746095/71 "2016-02-17T00:08:51Z")
> [@Urbanredneck](#): > > Oh you poor little princess. So says the grown man who’s outraged that there’s such a thing as a summer camp for girls. ---
**Author:** ![Broomstick](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/broomstick/32/246_2.png) [@Broomstick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Broomstick)\ **Post date:** [February 17, 2016, 12:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-girls-still-need-special-treatment/746095/72 "2016-02-17T00:15:08Z")
> [@iljitsch](#): > > If boys are being stupid/inappropriate you are completely right. > > But are they, really? > > Telling boys they suck and they should sit still has the potential to be very harmful. Girls/women now do much better in education than boys/men. At the same time, in lower grades there are fewer and fewer male teachers. Could part of the reason for that be that the majority of female teachers are expecting boys to act like girls, and seeing problems in typical boy behavior that aren’t really problems but just normal behavior? OK, let’s retreat for a moment: What prompted my statement was the notion that if a girl’s bra strap is showing and boys make some “stupid” comment then the girl should just get used to it. I would counter that the only proper response to a displayed bra strap is “your bra strap is showing, you might want to tuck it back in your shirt” and it’s never too early to attempt to teach appropriate responses to social situations. As for your side: I agree, expecting young children (of either gender, but particularly boys) to sit still for long hours without intervals of activity is asking for trouble and, yes, stupid. I have long suspected that the death of men in early primary education has as much to do with negative stereotypes regarding men and young children as other factors, and would fully support providing incentives to change that. Both boys and girls need positive role models of both genders for optimal development. ---
**Author:** ![Broomstick](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/broomstick/32/246_2.png) [@Broomstick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Broomstick)\ **Post date:** [February 17, 2016, 12:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-girls-still-need-special-treatment/746095/73 "2016-02-17T00:27:30Z")
…and that should be “dearth” of men, not “death”, stupid auto-correct and edit time-out… ---
**Author:** ![Urbanredneck](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ea5d25/32.png) [@Urbanredneck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Urbanredneck)\ **Post date:** [February 17, 2016, 5:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-girls-still-need-special-treatment/746095/74 "2016-02-17T05:47:03Z")
> [@Bridget\_Burke](#): > > I’m old enough to remember when there were _no_ men working in elementary schools. Except for the janitors. Surprised that you found no men in middle schools–were women r_eally_ coaching the football team? The football coach may or may not even work at that school. I was only subbing there. And nowadays the janitor is just as likely to be female. ---
**Author:** ![Bridget\_Burke](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7cd45c/32.png) [@Bridget\_Burke](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bridget_Burke)\ **Post date:** [February 17, 2016, 6:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-girls-still-need-special-treatment/746095/75 "2016-02-17T06:45:17Z")
> [@Urbanredneck](#): > > The football coach may or may not even work at that school. I was only subbing there. > > And nowadays the janitor is just as likely to be female. In Texas, a football coach would definitely “work at that school.” And be male. In any level above elementary school. What’s wrong with a female janitor? Or a female principal–which I had in elementary school, long before your time. ---
**Author:** ![nearwildheaven](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/90db22/32.png) [@nearwildheaven](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/nearwildheaven)\ **Post date:** [February 17, 2016, 6:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-girls-still-need-special-treatment/746095/76 "2016-02-17T06:45:20Z")
> [@Urbanredneck](#): > > Maybe you need to get out more because I’m not lying. Granted they only change down to shorts and t shirts if they need to go further they would go into a stall. How old are these kids? ---
**Author:** ![Urbanredneck](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ea5d25/32.png) [@Urbanredneck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Urbanredneck)\ **Post date:** [February 17, 2016, 12:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-girls-still-need-special-treatment/746095/77 "2016-02-17T12:40:22Z")
> [@nearwildheaven](#): > > How old are these kids? Abut age 5-6 up until around age 16. Above that they will have separate girls teams. Try out the [State Wars](http://statewarsrollerhockey.pointstreaksites.com/view/statewars) site. ---
**Author:** ![Urbanredneck](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ea5d25/32.png) [@Urbanredneck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Urbanredneck)\ **Post date:** [February 17, 2016, 12:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-girls-still-need-special-treatment/746095/78 "2016-02-17T12:42:29Z")
> [@Bridget\_Burke](#): > > What’s wrong with a female janitor? Or a female principal–which I had in elementary school, long before your time. Nothing. It was just part of my point that sometimes EVERY position in the school is filled by women even some that were traditionally by men. So I’ll ask YOU. If a woman can be a janitor, why cant a man be allowed to be a first grade teacher? ---
**Author:** ![elbows](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/b3f665/32.png) [@elbows](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elbows)\ **Post date:** [February 17, 2016, 1:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-girls-still-need-special-treatment/746095/79 "2016-02-17T13:37:13Z")
Where is it that men are forbidden from teaching first grade? Got a cite for that? ---
**Author:** ![Abner\_Ravenwood](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/c4cdca/32.png) [@Abner\_Ravenwood](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Abner_Ravenwood)\ **Post date:** [February 17, 2016, 10:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-girls-still-need-special-treatment/746095/80 "2016-02-17T22:19:13Z")
> [@usedtobe](#): > > I’m a 14 yr old boy who wants too learn how to cook and run a sewing machine. Too bad. > > But: I’m a 14 yr old girl who wants to learn how to shoot guns and fix cars, I’m set. Not true. I took both home ec and shop in 7th and 8th grades and just home ec in the 9th grade in the late '80’s and early '90’s, and there were other boys in all the home ec classes. I don’t recall any girls in the shop classes. I’d be willing to bet it’s the same today. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-girls-still-need-special-treatment/746095.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-girls-still-need-special-treatment/746095.md?page=5)