# Do global warming "skeptics" honestly see us as a benign species? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [January 5, 2014, 11:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-global-warming-skeptics-honestly-see-us-as-a-benign-species/677984 "2014-01-05T23:18:34Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 17
**Author:** ![Budget\_Player\_Cadet](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/budget_player_cadet/32/205_2.png) [@Budget\_Player\_Cadet](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Budget_Player_Cadet)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2014, 9:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-global-warming-skeptics-honestly-see-us-as-a-benign-species/677984/321 "2014-01-29T21:56:25Z")
> [@cmangle](#): > > Pardon my Cynicism, but can anyone tell when the global warming will return? I’m getting a little frigid freezing my A$$ off here on the north east coast! Seriously is global warming only an issue during summer? No, the frequency and severity of winters, and the number of record cold temperatures set, have both been down. Meanwhile, this winter’s heavy cold has to do with the polar vortex, a mass of air normally caught by high pressure systems in the arctic, which has been weakened by the rise in arctic temperatures. > [@](#): > > ``` > As in my previous post it was "SUMMER" in Antarctica when those two freighters got stuck in the ice! > > ``` Of course, global warming does not imply that everywhere in the world will warm uniformly. Or that that warming will automatically and immediately lead to loss of antarctic sea ice. > [@](#): > > ``` > Also correct me if I'm mistaken but wasn't Al Gore's movie dealing with global warming shot full of holes by someone? > > ``` Yes. Numerous people. Because it wasn’t based on the soundest of science. It was alarmist in tone and a lot of its predictions are simply based on absolute worst-case-scenarios that aren’t particularly realistic. Of course, Al Gore is not a climatologist, and his movie was not peer-reviewed. The fact that his movie was not the most astute of documentaries does nothing to negate the absolutely massive amount of research supporting the idea that the earth is warming and humans are causing it. > [@](#): > > I’m not one way or the other on this matter, but it seems as though it hard to be on one side of the fence or the other when the fence itself don’t seem too sturdy! Is this a political issue? a financial/greed issue? or an environmental issue? Well, I guess this one is a matter of perspective. It depends which you would rather believe: 1. Scientists, universities, and governments are colluding world-wide, producing thousands of fraudulent papers in countless high-impact peer-reviewed journals (who are also in on the conspiracy), falsifying millions of points of data from dozens of countries, with the goal of convincing us that the earth is warming to push some unknown political agenda or trick us into buying things that they for some undisclosed reason (and with no backing evidence) have an interest in. 2. The earth is warming, this warming is caused primarily by human CO2 pollution, and the evidence for this is absolutely overwhelming. You’d be surprised how many people wholeheartedly believe that there is an international conspiracy of researchers to fudge the data. The reasons they give? Mostly the goal of instituting a world Marxist government. These people are fucking _deranged_. ---
**Author:** ![FXMastermind](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fxmastermind/32/7289_2.png) [@FXMastermind](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FXMastermind)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2014, 10:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-global-warming-skeptics-honestly-see-us-as-a-benign-species/677984/322 "2014-01-29T22:13:20Z")
And then there is that pesky evidence, which clearly shows [January in most of the US and Alaska has been getting colder](http://data.giss.nasa.gov/cgi-bin/gistemp/nmaps.cgi?year_last=2013&month_last=12&sat=4&sst=0&type=trends&mean_gen=01&year1=2002&year2=2013&base1=1951&base2=1980&radius=250&pol=rob). Some places, much much colder. (look at poor Colorado, that little purple square in the middle of the US) Could you tell if your January was -11.7 degrees C colder this year? What if we look at [January since 1998](http://data.giss.nasa.gov/cgi-bin/gistemp/nmaps.cgi?year_last=2013&month_last=12&sat=4&sst=0&type=trends&mean_gen=01&year1=1998&year2=2013&base1=1951&base2=1980&radius=250&pol=rob)? At least[February isn’t as bad](http://data.giss.nasa.gov/cgi-bin/gistemp/nmaps.cgi?year_last=2013&month_last=12&sat=4&sst=0&type=trends&mean_gen=02&year1=2002&year2=2013&base1=1951&base2=1980&radius=250&pol=rob), unless you look at Europe, or god forbid, central Asia. Or Japan, or India, or China, or Alaska. But don’t worry, somebody will be along to tell you that it’s one of the warmest years ever. ---
**Author:** ![wolfpup](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wolfpup/32/10618_2.png) [@wolfpup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wolfpup)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2014, 10:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-global-warming-skeptics-honestly-see-us-as-a-benign-species/677984/323 "2014-01-29T22:17:03Z")
> [@cmangle](#): > > Pardon my Cynicism, but can anyone tell when the global warming will return? I’m getting a little frigid freezing my A$$ off here on the north east coast! Seriously is global warming only an issue during summer? You don’t assess global average temperature by what’s happening in your back yard. As long as the global average temperature is increasing at an unnaturally rapid rate, it’s plausible that weather phenomena like the polar vortex responsible for all this Arctic air moving south and other atmosphere and ocean circulation changes are linked to climate instability. > [@cmangle](#): > > As in my previous post it was “SUMMER” in Antarctica when those two freighters got stuck in the ice! It was early summer, when seasonal sea ice at the time was two and a half to three times greater than the seasonal minimum. Also, as discussed in another thread, there is strong evidence for mass loss of the Antarctic ice sheet from warming temperatures which itself may be contributing to increased amounts of seasonal sea ice. > [@cmangle](#): > > Also correct me if I’m mistaken but wasn’t Al Gore’s movie dealing with global warming shot full of holes by someone? No. A poll conducted among prominent climate scientists at the time showed that he got most of the substantial facts right. He did get some details wrong, and made statements about links to specific events like Katrina that some interpreted as stronger than were scientifically supportable. The most important thing to remember here is that Al Gore is not climate science. The science stands on its own merits. But the movie that helped to garner Al Gore the Nobel Peace Prize was indeed substantially correct. ---
**Author:** ![FXMastermind](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fxmastermind/32/7289_2.png) [@FXMastermind](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FXMastermind)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2014, 10:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-global-warming-skeptics-honestly-see-us-as-a-benign-species/677984/324 "2014-01-29T22:17:20Z")
If you look at [the winter trend](http://data.giss.nasa.gov/cgi-bin/gistemp/nmaps.cgi?year_last=2013&month_last=12&sat=4&sst=3&type=trends&mean_gen=1203&year1=2002&year2=2013&base1=1951&base2=1980&radius=250&pol=rob), you can see why people are complaining about the cold. Even the global mean is -.17 C for the NH winter period. Of course [the annual mean](http://data.giss.nasa.gov/cgi-bin/gistemp/nmaps.cgi?year_last=2013&month_last=12&sat=4&sst=3&type=trends&mean_gen=1212&year1=2002&year2=2013&base1=1951&base2=1980&radius=250&pol=rob) is -.01C, so things are still warming up. Haha OK some places are. Not the places most people live, but some places are warming. ---
**Author:** ![FXMastermind](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fxmastermind/32/7289_2.png) [@FXMastermind](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FXMastermind)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2014, 10:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-global-warming-skeptics-honestly-see-us-as-a-benign-species/677984/325 "2014-01-29T22:20:55Z")
Of course somebody will now be along to explain how 11 or 16 or 18 years isn’t enough to be able to say. How about 20 years? [Twenty year trend of winter](http://data.giss.nasa.gov/cgi-bin/gistemp/nmaps.cgi?year_last=2013&month_last=12&sat=4&sst=3&type=trends&mean_gen=1203&year1=1994&year2=2013&base1=1951&base2=1980&radius=250&pol=rob). Damn, still shows colder winters for some of the US, and most of Eurasia, with that nasty purple right in the middle of it. But remember, it’s getting warmer, and that is all that matters. ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2014, 10:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-global-warming-skeptics-honestly-see-us-as-a-benign-species/677984/326 "2014-01-29T22:23:27Z")
> [@cmangle](#): > > Pardon my Cynicism, but can anyone tell when the global warming will return? I’m getting a little frigid freezing my A$$ off here on the north east coast! Seriously is global warming only an issue during summer? > As in my previous post it was “SUMMER” in Antarctica when those two freighters got stuck in the ice! > Also correct me if I’m mistaken but wasn’t Al Gore’s movie dealing with global warming shot full of holes by someone? > I’m not one way or the other on this matter, but it seems as though it hard to be on one side of the fence or the other when the fence itself don’t seem too sturdy! Is this a political issue? a financial/greed issue? or an environmental issue? > > Just curious . . . . > **[Does cold weather disprove global warming?](https://skepticalscience.com/global-warming-cold-weather-intermediate.htm)** > > \Since the mid 1970s, global temperatures have been warming at around 0.2 degrees Celsius per decade. However, weather imposes its own dramatic ups and downs over the long term trend. We expect to see record cold temperatures even during global... > [@](#): > > Since the mid 1970s, global temperatures have been warming at around 0.2 degrees Celsius per decade. However, weather imposes its own dramatic ups and downs over the long term trend. We expect to see record cold temperatures even during global warming. Nevertheless over the last decade, daily record high temperatures occurred twice as often as record lows. This tendency towards hotter days is expected to increase as global warming continues into the 21st Century. ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2014, 10:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-global-warming-skeptics-honestly-see-us-as-a-benign-species/677984/327 "2014-01-29T22:25:20Z")
> [@FXMastermind](#): > > If you look at [the winter trend](http://data.giss.nasa.gov/cgi-bin/gistemp/nmaps.cgi?year_last=2013&month_last=12&sat=4&sst=3&type=trends&mean_gen=1203&year1=2002&year2=2013&base1=1951&base2=1980&radius=250&pol=rob), you can see why people are complaining about the cold. Even the global mean is -.17 C for the NH winter period. > > Of course [the annual mean](http://data.giss.nasa.gov/cgi-bin/gistemp/nmaps.cgi?year_last=2013&month_last=12&sat=4&sst=3&type=trends&mean_gen=1212&year1=2002&year2=2013&base1=1951&base2=1980&radius=250&pol=rob) is -.01C, so things are still warming up. > > Haha > > OK some places are. Not the places most people live, but some places are warming. > **[Does the global warming 'pause' mean what you think it means?](https://skepticalscience.com/does-global-warming-pause-mean-what-you-think.html)** > > In their study of media coverage of the 2013 Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change (IPCC) report, Media Matters for America found that nearly half of print media stories discussed that the warming of global surface temperatures has slowed over... > [@](#): > > Despite this double cherry picking, ignoring 98 percent of global warming, and despite the sun and volcanoes and ocean cycles all acting in the cooling direction over the past decade, the best climate contrarians can do is find a flat 10-year surface temperature trend. Can you guess what’s going to happen the next time the oceans shift to a warm cycle? That’s the thing about cycles – they’re cyclical. > > Regarding the ‘pause’, Inigo Montoya would likely tell climate contrarians, > > ``` > "You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means." > > ``` ---
**Author:** ![FXMastermind](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fxmastermind/32/7289_2.png) [@FXMastermind](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FXMastermind)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2014, 10:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-global-warming-skeptics-honestly-see-us-as-a-benign-species/677984/328 "2014-01-29T22:47:55Z")
I told you somebody would be along to explain why a clear trend of colder winters means nothing. ---
**Author:** ![tomndebb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b9e5f3/32.png) [@tomndebb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tomndebb)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2014, 11:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-global-warming-skeptics-honestly-see-us-as-a-benign-species/677984/329 "2014-01-29T23:09:08Z")
> [@FXMastermind](#): > > I told you somebody would be along to explain why a clear trend of colder winters means nothing. That would have made more sense if there had actually been a clear trend of colder winters, of course. (Or if it your claim did not make a point of ignoring the fact that climate scientists have been explaining for decades that a global warming will result in changes to local weather patterns in which some regions will actually see drops in temperature.) ---
**Author:** ![FXMastermind](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fxmastermind/32/7289_2.png) [@FXMastermind](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FXMastermind)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2014, 11:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-global-warming-skeptics-honestly-see-us-as-a-benign-species/677984/330 "2014-01-29T23:14:07Z")
Oh my, I forgot about the “there is no trend” defense. I am pwned. ---
**Author:** ![eschereal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eschereal/32/18939_2.png) [@eschereal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eschereal)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2014, 11:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-global-warming-skeptics-honestly-see-us-as-a-benign-species/677984/331 "2014-01-29T23:20:51Z")
Simple math question: what latitude-pair represents half the earth’s surface? IOW, if you girdle S\<-\>N from the equator, where would the edges of the girdle be to define half the surface? My uninformed guess would be somewhere around 32°. ---
**Author:** ![FXMastermind](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fxmastermind/32/7289_2.png) [@FXMastermind](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FXMastermind)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2014, 2:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-global-warming-skeptics-honestly-see-us-as-a-benign-species/677984/332 "2014-01-30T02:27:33Z")
> [@wolfpup](#): > > As long as the global average temperature is increasing at an unnaturally rapid rate, But it is not, it has not been, we know this with out a doubt, so everything after that is nonsense. ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2014, 2:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-global-warming-skeptics-honestly-see-us-as-a-benign-species/677984/333 "2014-01-30T02:33:04Z")
> [@FXMastermind](#): > > But it is not, it has not been, we know this with out a doubt, so everything after that is nonsense. We know that? Who is we? > **[Global Warming](https://earthobservatory.nasa.gov/features/GlobalWarming/page4.php)** > > Global warming is happening now, and scientists are confident that greenhouse gases are responsible. To understand what this means for humanity, it is necessary to understand what global warming is, how scientists know it's happening, and how they... > [@](#): > > Is Current Warming Natural? > > In Earth’s history before the Industrial Revolution, Earth’s climate changed due to natural causes not related to human activity. Most often, global climate has changed because of variations in sunlight. Tiny wobbles in Earth’s orbit altered when and where sunlight falls on Earth’s surface. Variations in the Sun itself have alternately increased and decreased the amount of solar energy reaching Earth. Volcanic eruptions have generated particles that reflect sunlight, brightening the planet and cooling the climate. Volcanic activity has also, in the deep past, increased greenhouse gases over millions of years, contributing to episodes of global warming. > > These natural causes are still in play today, but their influence is too small or they occur too slowly to explain the rapid warming seen in recent decades. We know this because scientists closely monitor the natural and human activities that influence climate with a fleet of satellites and surface instruments. ---
**Author:** ![brazil84](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/8491ac/32.png) [@brazil84](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/brazil84)\ **Post date:** [January 31, 2014, 2:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-global-warming-skeptics-honestly-see-us-as-a-benign-species/677984/334 "2014-01-31T02:02:42Z")
> [@cmangle](#): > > Pardon my Cynicism, but can anyone tell when the global warming will return? Well first one needs to define “global warming.” Good luck getting a definition from global warming proponents. ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [January 31, 2014, 2:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-global-warming-skeptics-honestly-see-us-as-a-benign-species/677984/335 "2014-01-31T02:21:50Z")
> [@brazil84](#): > > Well first one needs to define “global warming.” Good luck getting a definition from global warming proponents. Defined way back on post #128, but we know already that it was not looked at. [http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=16999267&postcount=128](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=16999267&postcount=128) ---
**Author:** ![marshmallow](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/df705f/32.png) [@marshmallow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/marshmallow)\ **Post date:** [January 31, 2014, 2:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-global-warming-skeptics-honestly-see-us-as-a-benign-species/677984/336 "2014-01-31T02:49:03Z")
Apparently agreeing on the Earth’s temperature is too hard. Maybe we should start small, like the length of the equator or the deepest point in the ocean. ---
**Author:** ![andros](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e480ec/32.png) [@andros](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/andros)\ **Post date:** [January 31, 2014, 3:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-global-warming-skeptics-honestly-see-us-as-a-benign-species/677984/337 "2014-01-31T03:23:18Z")
> [@marshmallow](#): > > Apparently agreeing on the Earth’s temperature is too hard. Maybe we should start small, like the length of the equator or the deepest point in the ocean. Great, now we have a deluded roundist chiming in. There’s no proof the world isn’t flat, you alarmist fool. ---
**Author:** ![septimus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/septimus/32/410_2.png) [@septimus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/septimus)\ **Post date:** [January 31, 2014, 5:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-global-warming-skeptics-honestly-see-us-as-a-benign-species/677984/338 "2014-01-31T05:07:16Z")
Really, people! This thread is reserved for insults directed against science. If you have simple math questions, please take them to BBQ Pit. Nevertheless, let’s address one hijack since it leads to an instructive point. > [@For You](#): > > Simple math question: what latitude-pair represents half the earth’s surface? IOW, if you girdle S\<-\>N from the equator, where would the edges of the girdle be to define half the surface? My uninformed guess would be somewhere around 32°. My uninformed guess is that 30° exactly would be the answer, if the Earth’s shape is approximated to be perfectly spherical. Note that the area of a spherical segment is proportional to its central altitude, a fact which I think was discovered by Archimedes. But my spherical trig isn’t as good as it used to be … and it never was. Hoping not to make an utter fool of myself I went to Google Images to get diagrams of the Earth just to make sure I even knew what a latitude was! There I found [several images like this one!](http://www.marinersmuseum.org/education/introduction-latitude-and-longitude) Note that whoever produced this diagram thinks latitudes relate linearly to central altitude, rather to the arccos thereof! :smack: What does this have to do with the thread topic? Laymen today, who feel qualified to explain latitude lines on websites, know less about trivial math than the ancient Greeks. Eavesdropping on ignorant laymen discussing climatology would be amusing if it weren’t so sad. ---
**Author:** ![eschereal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eschereal/32/18939_2.png) [@eschereal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eschereal)\ **Post date:** [January 31, 2014, 5:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-global-warming-skeptics-honestly-see-us-as-a-benign-species/677984/339 "2014-01-31T05:35:26Z")
> [@septimus](#): > > What does this have to do with the thread topic? I posted my question in the wrong thread. I was looking at a temperature change graph from a link that **fxm** posted in another thread. The graph itself was presented as a flat abscissa with no compensation for latitude, it just went from 90°S-\>0°-\>90° N in a straight line, which I thought seemed a little distorted in terms of effect. There were huge dips and spikes near the ends, but the area between the thirties looked nominally positive, and it seemed to me that would be a much more significant fraction of area to consider. ---
**Author:** ![septimus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/septimus/32/410_2.png) [@septimus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/septimus)\ **Post date:** [January 31, 2014, 6:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-global-warming-skeptics-honestly-see-us-as-a-benign-species/677984/340 "2014-01-31T06:00:32Z")
> [@For You](#): > > I posted my question in the wrong thread. Sorry. My accusations of “hijack” were intended to be humorous. I’ve been told I need to add laughing icons. > [@For You](#): > > a link that **fxm** posted in another thread. The graph itself was presented as a flat abscissa with no compensation for latitude, it just went from 90°S-\>0°-\>90° N in a straight line, which I thought seemed a little distorted in terms of effect. [septimus’ underlining] As I suggested, replacing latitude with sine(latitude) should be an easy way to get a constant-area abscissa. But, in the context of this thread, it’s best to use whichever way creates a picture which supports a particular viewpoint. 😃 :smack: [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-global-warming-skeptics-honestly-see-us-as-a-benign-species/677984.md?page=16) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-global-warming-skeptics-honestly-see-us-as-a-benign-species/677984.md?page=18)