# Do great men have higher arrest records than the average citizen? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [August 22, 2017, 6:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-great-men-have-higher-arrest-records-than-the-average-citizen/794392 "2017-08-22T18:58:40Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 9\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Mr.Nylock](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/77aa72/32.png) [@Mr.Nylock](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Nylock)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2017, 6:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-great-men-have-higher-arrest-records-than-the-average-citizen/794392/1 "2017-08-22T18:58:40Z")
I kind of thought of this a while back when I read someone say very proudly of themselves “I’ve never known anyone who’s been arrested” and I thought to myself “well I guess that means you never hung out with Nelson Mandella, Mohammad Ali or Keith Richards.” But on a more serious note it seems that all sorts men from various walks of life who have done something by which they have advanced civilization, or at least for which their names will be remembered have a least some sort of arrest record. Just off the top of my head: Socrates, Jesus, Voltaire, MLK, Lenny Bruce, Fatty Arbuckle, Leadbelly, Napoleon, Dostoevsky, Turing, Cervantes, Snoop Dog, Pete Rose, Bertold Brecht, Marquis De Sade, Wagner?, Galileo, Cassanova, Bill Gates, Frank Sinatra . . . I’m sure there’s a bunch more I’m not thinking of at the moment. ---
**Author:** ![Icarus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/icarus/32/72_2.png) [@Icarus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Icarus)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2017, 7:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-great-men-have-higher-arrest-records-than-the-average-citizen/794392/2 "2017-08-22T19:03:37Z")
I would say it is really stretching it to include all of the notable figures who were arrested due to politics, not because of garden variety breaking the law. Your list includes a lot of people who were trying to do good things and those in power didn’t like to be challenged, so arrest was the result. It might be more illuminating to flip the script and ask something more along the lines of “Do great men suffer from being arrested by opponents in power more than average citizens?” ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_Bravo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnny_bravo/32/493_2.png) [@Johnny\_Bravo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_Bravo)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2017, 7:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-great-men-have-higher-arrest-records-than-the-average-citizen/794392/3 "2017-08-22T19:08:01Z")
There’s different categories here. Some people on your list got arrested for the very things that made them great. Your philosophers and rabblerousers make up that group. On the other hand, lots of people become great and then tend to get themselves in trouble. That’s where most celebrities fit in. It’s no surprise to point out that rich and famous people tend to do stuff that gets them arrested, but I don’t know that they get arrested at a higher rates than average folks. They just do it more spectacularly. ---
**Author:** ![kayaker](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kayaker/32/441_2.png) [@kayaker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kayaker)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2017, 7:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-great-men-have-higher-arrest-records-than-the-average-citizen/794392/4 "2017-08-22T19:24:19Z")
> [@Mr.Nylock](#): > > “well I guess that means you never hung out with Nelson Mandella, Mohammad Ali or Keith Richards.” Muhammad Ali. A great man who deserves correct spelling.🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Nylock](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/77aa72/32.png) [@Mr.Nylock](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Nylock)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2017, 7:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-great-men-have-higher-arrest-records-than-the-average-citizen/794392/5 "2017-08-22T19:32:03Z")
> [@kayaker](#): > > Muhammad Ali. A great man who deserves correct spelling.🙂 I was going to check the spelling, then I thought of writing Cassius Clay, then I just went with that spelling unfortunately:( ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Nylock](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/77aa72/32.png) [@Mr.Nylock](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Nylock)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2017, 7:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-great-men-have-higher-arrest-records-than-the-average-citizen/794392/6 "2017-08-22T19:40:39Z")
> [@Icarus](#): > > I would say it is really stretching it to include all of the notable figures who were arrested due to politics, not because of garden variety breaking the law. Your list includes a lot of people who were trying to do good things and those in power didn’t like to be challenged, so arrest was the result. It might be more illuminating to flip the script and ask something more along the lines of “Do great men suffer from being arrested by opponents in power more than average citizens?” That’s a good question. Some of them are doing good things, but some of them breaking the law dong rather selfish things also - perhaps excessive narcissism as well as excessive goodness increase the odds of being someone who does something memorable. ---
**Author:** ![Renz\_Medicinal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/13edae/32.png) [@Renz\_Medicinal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Renz_Medicinal)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2017, 9:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-great-men-have-higher-arrest-records-than-the-average-citizen/794392/7 "2017-08-23T09:44:22Z")
Jailed before they rose to power: Adolf Hitler Idi Amin Nelson Mandela Ferdinand Marcos Kemal Ataturk Joseph Stalin (almost avoided prison) Saddam Hussein Ayatollah Khomeini Is there a pattern? Somehow managed to escape prison: Mohamar Kadaffi Josip Broz Tito Enver Hoxha Rodrigo Duterte (so far) ---
**Author:** ![jtur88](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/e9c0ed/32.png) [@jtur88](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jtur88)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2017, 8:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-great-men-have-higher-arrest-records-than-the-average-citizen/794392/8 "2017-08-24T08:16:42Z")
> [@Renz\_Medicinal](#): > > Jailed before they rose to power: > > Adolf Hitler > Idi Amin > Nelson Mandela > Ferdinand Marcos > Kemal Ataturk > Joseph Stalin (almost avoided prison) > Saddam Hussein > Ayatollah Khomeini > > Is there a pattern? > Somehow managed to escape prison: > > Mohamar Kadaffi > Josip Broz Tito > Enver Hoxha > Rodrigo Duterte (so far) Pierre Trudeau, arrested in Jerusalem on suspicion of being Israeli spy. ---
**Author:** ![Nava](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/da6949/32.png) [@Nava](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nava)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2017, 6:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-great-men-have-higher-arrest-records-than-the-average-citizen/794392/9 "2017-08-24T18:03:43Z")
> [@Mr.Nylock](#): > > Cervantes For stealing when he was a tax collector. Not exactly the mark of a great man.