# Do Grown People Really Still Believe In Astrology? **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [October 29, 2004, 8:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-grown-people-really-still-believe-in-astrology/271918 "2004-10-29T20:16:50Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![Angua](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/8baadc/32.png) [@Angua](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Angua)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2004, 3:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-grown-people-really-still-believe-in-astrology/271918/81 "2004-10-31T15:11:35Z")
Fair enough. As an astronomer, I just think the entire idea is so ridiculous, that, to be honest, I’ve never really paid much attention to it. But, I do like your line of logic against it all. ---
**Author:** ![Musicat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/musicat/32/20189_2.png) [@Musicat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Musicat)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2004, 3:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-grown-people-really-still-believe-in-astrology/271918/82 "2004-10-31T15:12:45Z")
> [@Sublight](#): > > A while back I had a fairly flaky co-worker who believed unquestioningly in astrology. Just for the hell of it, I asked her to guess my star sign based on my personality. She did a lot of fishing around (“hmm, you’re sort of like a Taurus, but maybe a little like a Pices…”), but I absolutely refused to give any kind of response until she made an actual guess. > > As Og is my witness, it took her 13 tries. In other words, she did _worse_ than random guessing. Hmmm…negative energy…must be something there… ---
**Author:** ![Sublight](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/439d5e/32.png) [@Sublight](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sublight)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2004, 4:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-grown-people-really-still-believe-in-astrology/271918/83 "2004-10-31T16:20:50Z")
> [@Musicat](#): > > In other words, she did _worse_ than random guessing. Hmmm…negative energy…must be something there… Not just worse than random, she did worse than theoretically possible. That’s some damn serious negative energy I’m giving off. ---
**Author:** ![Carol\_the\_Impaler](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6a8cbe/32.png) [@Carol\_the\_Impaler](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Carol_the_Impaler)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2004, 4:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-grown-people-really-still-believe-in-astrology/271918/84 "2004-10-31T16:21:21Z")
Believe??? Oh, man, do I ever! I mean, there was that day back in college when my horoscope said it was a good day to buy shoes (I shit you not!), and I didn’t have any money and it’s been downhill ever since! ---
**Author:** ![Alessan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alessan/32/465_2.png) [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2004, 4:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-grown-people-really-still-believe-in-astrology/271918/85 "2004-10-31T16:34:18Z")
> [@Angua](#): > > **Polycarp** , I see what you’re saying but, unless these planets are exerting some mythical influence, (which I’d say is pretty damned hard for what are essentially balls of rock a few light years away in the case of planets, and balls of hot gas a few hundreds of light years away in the case of stars), then the midwife assisting your mother in giving birth to you had more influence on you than the ‘stars’. Helpful tip - you’ll have an easier time passing yourself off as an astronomer if you stop saying that our sun’s planets are light years away. Light hours, maybe. ---
**Author:** ![Angua](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/8baadc/32.png) [@Angua](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Angua)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2004, 4:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-grown-people-really-still-believe-in-astrology/271918/86 "2004-10-31T16:49:51Z")
> [@Alessan](#): > > Helpful tip - you’ll have an easier time passing yourself off as an astronomer if you stop saying that our sun’s planets are light years away. Light hours, maybe. I’m not trying to ‘pass myself off’ as an astronomer. I _am_ an astronomer, and I know damned well that its light hours as opposed to light years. However, that said, I am a human being, and as such, human beings are allowed to make errors. Thank you for pointing out my error to me, next time, however, don’t insult me. ---
**Author:** ![Kimstu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ecd19e/32.png) [@Kimstu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimstu)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2004, 5:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-grown-people-really-still-believe-in-astrology/271918/87 "2004-10-31T17:22:06Z")
A couple years back I taught an undergraduate course on the history of astrology and history of science. I don’t believe in astrology, but it always seemed like a shame to me that its incredibly rich history and impact on the development of science get so completely ignored in academic environments, because so many academics consider it intellectually contemptible and think they’ll get brain cooties from knowing anything about it. Anyway, I was quite surprised to find that a lot of the students actually described themselves as believing in astrology (the class split about half-and-half in a poll asking whether **I** believed in astrology, so I guess I did an okay job of non-indoctrinational teaching! :)). But most of them seemed to regard it as a psychological tool rather than a true predictive device: that is, when you’re confronted with a decision or trying to understand something, you use your horoscope to provide a kind of narrative structure. I’ve seen people do the same sort of thing often with their religious or ethnic or family identity, even if the structure was false or oversimplified: “I’m short-tempered because I have red hair”, “We Scots have to abide by the sacred laws of hospitality”, “All the women in my family marry that kind of guy.” I think astrology is starting to become just another layer of identity that people use to construct narratives that make sense to them, rather than a predictive system that they genuinely believe will foretell events accurately. ---
**Author:** ![Alessan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alessan/32/465_2.png) [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2004, 5:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-grown-people-really-still-believe-in-astrology/271918/88 "2004-10-31T17:34:57Z")
> [@Angua](#): > > I’m not trying to ‘pass myself off’ as an astronomer. I _am_ an astronomer, and I know damned well that its light hours as opposed to light years. However, that said, I am a human being, and as such, human beings are allowed to make errors. Thank you for pointing out my error to me, next time, however, don’t insult me. Hey, I would never insult a werewolf. Bad policy. I was just kidding - it semed like the nicest way to point out your slip. ---
**Author:** ![Angua](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/8baadc/32.png) [@Angua](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Angua)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2004, 6:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-grown-people-really-still-believe-in-astrology/271918/89 "2004-10-31T18:08:25Z")
> [@Alessan](#): > > I was just kidding - it semed like the nicest way to point out your slip. Fair enough. I would have just preferred a simple “years? Don’t you mean hours?” Or similar. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Polycarp](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/82dd89/32.png) [@Polycarp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Polycarp)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2004, 6:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-grown-people-really-still-believe-in-astrology/271918/90 "2004-10-31T18:14:22Z")
> [@Alessan](#): > > Hey, I would never insult a werewolf. Bad policy. > I was just kidding - it semed like the nicest way to point out your slip. Just so long as you don’t offer her diced carrots! 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Alessan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alessan/32/465_2.png) [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2004, 6:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-grown-people-really-still-believe-in-astrology/271918/91 "2004-10-31T18:42:39Z")
> [@Angua](#): > > Fair enough. I would have just preferred a simple “years? Don’t you mean hours?” Or similar. 🙂 Sorry. My wit - or half of it, at least - overcame me. ---
**Author:** ![Aeschines](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aeschines/32/16251_2.png) [@Aeschines](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aeschines)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2004, 6:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-grown-people-really-still-believe-in-astrology/271918/92 "2004-10-31T18:50:18Z")
> [@Angua](#): > > **Polycarp** , I see what you’re saying but, unless these planets are exerting some mythical influence, (which I’d say is pretty damned hard for what are essentially balls of rock a few light years away in the case of planets, The planets in our solar system are not light years away. ---
**Author:** ![Alessan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alessan/32/465_2.png) [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2004, 7:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-grown-people-really-still-believe-in-astrology/271918/93 "2004-10-31T19:01:27Z")
> [@Aeschines](#): > > The planets in our solar system are not light years away. Been there. ---
**Author:** ![Maastricht](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/a88e57/32.png) [@Maastricht](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Maastricht)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2004, 7:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-grown-people-really-still-believe-in-astrology/271918/94 "2004-10-31T19:02:45Z")
**Kimstu** nailed it, IMHO. For many people, astrology offers (amateur)-psychological concepts and explanations (Kimstu’s “narrative”) that, somehow _feel_ right, in an archetypical, timetested, just-fit-for-human-size way. ---
**Author:** ![Angua](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/8baadc/32.png) [@Angua](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Angua)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2004, 7:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-grown-people-really-still-believe-in-astrology/271918/95 "2004-10-31T19:28:24Z")
> [@Polycarp](#): > > Just so long as you don’t offer her diced carrots! 😉 Hey, if anyone’s dicing carrots, they’ll have me to answer to. 😉 **Aeschines** , thanks for pointing out my mistake to me. After others have already done so. It really helps a girl’s self confidence you know. Make one minor mistake, and everyone decides to jump on you. ---
**Author:** ![Aeschines](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aeschines/32/16251_2.png) [@Aeschines](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aeschines)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2004, 7:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-grown-people-really-still-believe-in-astrology/271918/96 "2004-10-31T19:30:59Z")
> [@Angua](#): > > **Aeschines** , thanks for pointing out my mistake to me. After others have already done so. It really helps a girl’s self confidence you know. Make one minor mistake, and everyone decides to jump on you. Sorry. I meant it only as a correction of the error, not as a dig. I should have looked further down before posting. ---
**Author:** ![Maastricht](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/a88e57/32.png) [@Maastricht](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Maastricht)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2004, 8:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-grown-people-really-still-believe-in-astrology/271918/97 "2004-10-31T20:17:34Z")
A very intelligent friend of mine, who has in other viewpoints a thoroughly scientific and rational way of thinking, is a firm believer in astrology. I used to see that as a weakness in his thinking. I’ve come to see it as his way of filling the gap religion, psychology and philosophy cannot fill. Psychology appears to him too judgemental: “Your relationship to your parents is unhealthy, and your coping skills are below par”. Astrology is far less judgemental, and it’s critic doesn’t seem to be directed at individual failings “Aries has a strong will, a strong energy, but the flipside of this is that Aries needs to be careful not to antagonize people”. Philosophy is too abstract. "Okay, so Kierkengaard was right. Does that mean I should continue this engagement with my fiancee, or break it off? " Astrology has something to say, not just about your engagement, but even about whetether you should go shopping this afternoon or better stay home, instead. Religion proffers a total package. The package includes a full set of morals, a theory of Everything, a loving God who cares about you personally, and a prefab social structure: local church. And, of course, knowledge of 2000 years of Christianity. It is hard to take just \*one \* of these elements, and discard the others. The elements one discards, tend to spoil the elements you \*do \* need. The idea of a loving God, for instance, loses its charm and credibility when spoiled by vivd images of antisemitism, creationism, and that awful obnoxious Christian neighbour. Astrology, in contrast, is so vague, and its elements soo loosely linked, that it offers a buffet of ideas from which to make our very own tailored selection. Astrology has no equivalent of Papal encyclics that urge and threaten us to keep it “pure, or else !”. Atractive concept, isn’t it? No wonder people will defend it, even if that means cloudy thinking of a suspension of disbelief about astrology’s fatal flaw; lack of scientific proof and lack of how precisely these "influences"are supposed to work. ---
**Author:** ![Kimstu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ecd19e/32.png) [@Kimstu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimstu)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2004, 10:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-grown-people-really-still-believe-in-astrology/271918/98 "2004-10-31T22:27:40Z")
**Maastricht:** \*Astrology, in contrast, is so vague, and its elements soo loosely linked, that it offers a buffet of ideas from which to make our very own tailored selection. \* Especially when you consider that it’s often part of an even bigger smorgasbord including other occult practices like crystal gazing, tarot, I Ching, etc., and spiritual disciplines like yoga and meditation and so on. Just enough getting in sync with the cosmos that you can feel aware and insightful, but not so much that you have to do any math. 🙂 Frankly, I’m of the opinion that, as you say, the human brain often just **needs** some kind of “harmonizing rituals” to make sense of things and feel in control. You’ll find many self-described rational people who mock at astrology, psychics, palmistry, etc., stoutly defending some kind of completely arbitrary personal diet or exercise regimen that has no physiological evidence to support its claimed benefits. Why? Well, they just feel better when they follow it. Hey, that’s good enough for me. As long as we’re not faking any evidence or claiming any general scientific validity for our personal “harmonizing rituals”, I don’t see why anybody needs to sneer at them. It’s perhaps true that they can foster uncritical and superstitious thinking in general, but I’d rather have it out in the open as a personal idiosyncracy than bubbling under a tinfoil hat behind conventional lip service to universal strict rationality. ---
**Author:** ![Denis](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/5e9695/32.png) [@Denis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Denis)\ **Post date:** [November 1, 2004, 1:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-grown-people-really-still-believe-in-astrology/271918/99 "2004-11-01T01:41:15Z")
This is so weird. I entered my data at the [astro.com](http://astro.com) site linked above (no, I still don’t feel ambitious enough to do a proper link), and this is part of what I got: > [@astro.com](#): > > Deeper understanding > > This quality of time will help you to develop a deeper understanding of those psychological areas that are connected with the experience of pain, suffering and rejection. …and more in the same vein, especially about healing. My wife whom I’ve known for twenty years, been married to for 16, left about a month ago. She wants a divorce, and says she’s wanted one for a long time. She’s been having an affair for about four months. ---
**Author:** ![moriah](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/b2d939/32.png) [@moriah](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/moriah)\ **Post date:** [November 1, 2004, 2:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-grown-people-really-still-believe-in-astrology/271918/100 "2004-11-01T02:34:49Z")
> [@Denis](#): > > This is so weird. > > I entered my data at the [astro.com](http://astro.com) site linked above (no, I still don’t feel ambitious enough to do a proper link), and this is part of what I got: > …and more in the same vein, especially about healing. Not to belittle your problems, but guess what, a survey of people will find that if they think about it, 100% of them will say that there’s some area of their life that could use healing and deeper understanding. It’s hard to be wrong about one person if you say something true about all people. Let me do a psychic reading of you… “This is a time to deepen friendships.” “Your temper can get the best of you at times, so you need to keep working to keep it in check.” “Someone you haven’t thought of in a while (2 years? 2 minutes?.. I’m not saying) is going to call you.” “You try not to care what people think of you but you sometimes do.” “You’ve been putting off working on that area of your life you’re not happy about.” “You give more to others than they give to you.” “You worry about job security.” [Astro.com](http://Astro.com)’s a piece of crap compared to my powers! [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-grown-people-really-still-believe-in-astrology/271918.md?page=4) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-grown-people-really-still-believe-in-astrology/271918.md?page=6)