# Do guns make a home safer or not? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [April 6, 2006, 2:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-guns-make-a-home-safer-or-not/351577 "2006-04-06T14:20:58Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![bup](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/6bbea6/32.png) [@bup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bup)\ **Post date:** [April 6, 2006, 2:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-guns-make-a-home-safer-or-not/351577/1 "2006-04-06T14:20:58Z")
I’m opening this so [this thread](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=364999&page=2) stays in IMHO. I’m not an anti-gun nut; I agree with Cecil’s POV - the second amendment says any infringement on gun ownership is illegal, and to enact anti-gun legislation fairly would require another amendment. \*\*Here’s the point for debate, though - you’re allowed to own a gun - rifle, shotgun, handgun… do you make yourself safer overall by owning one? \*\* I say no - admittedly, it’s hard to measure all the ingredients - do you escalate confrontations? Would people who kill themselves or their spouses have done it some other way anyway? Do even well-trained gun owners sometimes kill themselves accidentally? Does merely having a gun keep away intruders although no statistic captures that? In my view, though, the most important consideration is this - you cannot both keep your gun safely locked away, and have it ready in case of an intruder. You need to have your gun with you all the time, in order to have it the instant sometimes bursts through your door. Discuss. ---
**Author:** ![PatriotX](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/c4cdca/32.png) [@PatriotX](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PatriotX)\ **Post date:** [April 6, 2006, 2:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-guns-make-a-home-safer-or-not/351577/2 "2006-04-06T14:33:38Z")
I think there are two answers. One that is for ‘in general’ which could be ascertained from analyzing events in a large quantity of households. The other is for individual specific households. Given the households can be quite idiosyncratic, the answers in this last instance will vary. ---
**Author:** ![SentientMeat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/43a26b/32.png) [@SentientMeat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SentientMeat)\ **Post date:** [April 6, 2006, 2:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-guns-make-a-home-safer-or-not/351577/3 "2006-04-06T14:47:05Z")
We’d need the statistics on instances of people who were harmed by an intruder which would demonstrably have been prevented by home-defence firearms. Then compare to the statistics on accidents and instances of people who were harmed _because_ they pulled out a gun on an intruder. But one thing’s for sure: having a firearm handy makes murder much _easier_, where assault would be less lethal. The US is no less [violent](http://www.nationmaster.com/graph-T/cri_ass_percap) than most other industrialised democracies but their [murder rate\* is much higher than most, suggesting that something is making incidents far more lethal. And the people who die in the US but don’t elsewhere are largely killed by [url=http://www.nationmaster.com/graph-T/cri\_mur\_wit\_fir\_percap]firearms](http://www.nationmaster.com/graph-T/cri_mur_percap). It’s hard to escape the conclusion that having guns around increases the death rate. ---
**Author:** ![SentientMeat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/43a26b/32.png) [@SentientMeat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SentientMeat)\ **Post date:** [April 6, 2006, 2:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-guns-make-a-home-safer-or-not/351577/4 "2006-04-06T14:48:10Z")
Bah, sorry: But one thing’s for sure: having a firearm handy makes murder much _easier_, where assault would be less lethal. The US is no less [violent](http://www.nationmaster.com/graph-T/cri_ass_percap) than most other industrialised democracies but their [murder rate](http://www.nationmaster.com/graph-T/cri_mur_percap) is much higher than most, suggesting that something is making incidents far more lethal. And the people who die in the US but don’t elsewhere are largely killed by [firearms](http://www.nationmaster.com/graph-T/cri_mur_wit_fir_percap). It’s hard to escape the conclusion that having guns around increases the death rate. ---
**Author:** ![Odesio](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/odesio/32/20003_2.png) [@Odesio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Odesio)\ **Post date:** [April 6, 2006, 2:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-guns-make-a-home-safer-or-not/351577/5 "2006-04-06T14:51:13Z")
> [@bup](#): > > Here’s the point for debate, though - you’re allowed to own a gun - rifle, shotgun, handgun… do you make yourself safer overall by owning one? I own firearms and even I can’t give you a definate yes or no answer. For me, yes, I think it makes me safer. For someone else I might answer no. I have no history of drug or alcohol abuse, no criminal record, do not make a living by engaging in criminal activity, and have no history of domestic violence but my answer might be different if someone were to answer yes to some or all of the above. > [@](#): > > In my view, though, the most important consideration is this - you cannot both keep your gun safely locked away, and have it ready in case of an intruder. You need to have your gun with you all the time, in order to have it the instant sometimes bursts through your door. You can safely own firearms without having them locked away. It’s also not always necessary to have a firearm ready the instant you hear a strange noise. The first time I used mine against an intruder I had time to walk to another room and grab my pistol before a confrontation. That’s just one situation though. Marc ---
**Author:** ![Unregistered\_Bull](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/3da27b/32.png) [@Unregistered\_Bull](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Unregistered_Bull)\ **Post date:** [April 6, 2006, 2:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-guns-make-a-home-safer-or-not/351577/6 "2006-04-06T14:59:21Z")
More of anything dangerous is more dangerous. Cars, cleaning products, large dogs, buckets, pools, water, bathtubs, electicity, etc. But so what? Should people not be able to have these items? ---
**Author:** ![TokyoBayer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tokyobayer/32/13989_2.png) [@TokyoBayer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TokyoBayer)\ **Post date:** [April 6, 2006, 3:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-guns-make-a-home-safer-or-not/351577/7 "2006-04-06T15:32:09Z")
Cite for the rate of murders where cleaning buckets are used? ---
**Author:** ![Shagnasty](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9dc877/32.png) [@Shagnasty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shagnasty)\ **Post date:** [April 6, 2006, 4:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-guns-make-a-home-safer-or-not/351577/8 "2006-04-06T16:01:50Z")
> [@TokyoPlayer](#): > > Cite for the rate of murders where cleaning buckets are used? Babies drown in them. That doesn’t mean that people shouldn’t have them but it does mean that they need to be covered with a locking lid when they aren’t in use. ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [April 6, 2006, 4:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-guns-make-a-home-safer-or-not/351577/9 "2006-04-06T16:12:50Z")
> [@Unregistered Bull](#): > > More of anything dangerous is more dangerous. Cars, cleaning products, large dogs, buckets, pools, water, bathtubs, electicity, etc. But so what? Should people not be able to have these items? People should be able to have them. But they should be subjected to scorn if they claim they are safer because of them. ---
**Author:** ![BobLibDem](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/boblibdem/32/3149_2.png) [@BobLibDem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BobLibDem)\ **Post date:** [April 6, 2006, 4:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-guns-make-a-home-safer-or-not/351577/10 "2006-04-06T16:20:08Z")
> [@bup](#): > > I’m opening this so [this thread](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=364999&page=2) stays in IMHO. > > I’m not an anti-gun nut; I agree with Cecil’s POV - the second amendment says any infringement on gun ownership is illegal, and to enact anti-gun legislation fairly would require another amendment. While not the matter for debate, I can’t let this pass. The Second Amendment, the whole thing, not the second half of it venerated by the gun lobby, does not guarantee the individual the right to own any type of firearm. All it does is prevent the _federal_ government from disarming well-regulated militias. It does not restrict the States from enacting gun restrictions, indeed no state restrictions on firearms has ever been overturned on Second Amendment grounds. Back to the question- it varies by the situation. If you’re out in the wilderness and might be attacked by snakes or bears or what have you, yes a gun can make you safer. If you have a stalker that would like to break into your house and do you in, it can make you safer. If you have some hotheads in the family that might start pumping lead when their tempers flare up, then no it would not make you safer. ---
**Author:** ![bup](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/6bbea6/32.png) [@bup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bup)\ **Post date:** [April 6, 2006, 4:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-guns-make-a-home-safer-or-not/351577/11 "2006-04-06T16:40:13Z")
> [@Unregistered Bull](#): > > More of anything dangerous is more dangerous. Cars, cleaning products, large dogs, buckets, pools, water, bathtubs, electicity, etc. But so what? Should people not be able to have these items? Ah, but let me make a small distinction. _Given_ that it’s legal for would-be intruders to have them, do you make yourself safer by having one or not? In other words, I get what the advantage of owning a cleaning bucket is, and the tradeoff. If the only advantage I get from owning a gun is trying to make my house safer, am I right? So, yes, your argument holds up for hunters, or people who like to go to a rifle range for sport…whether or not it’s safer, it’s something people are willing to risk. But if the only reason to own one is the perceived safety, is it rational to own a gun? ---
**Author:** ![bup](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/6bbea6/32.png) [@bup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bup)\ **Post date:** [April 6, 2006, 4:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-guns-make-a-home-safer-or-not/351577/12 "2006-04-06T16:44:31Z")
> [@BobLibDem](#): > > While not the matter for debate, I can’t let this pass. The Second Amendment, the whole thing, not the second half of it venerated by the gun lobby, does not guarantee the individual the right to own any type of firearm. All it does is prevent the _federal_ government from disarming well-regulated militias. It does not restrict the States from enacting gun restrictions, indeed no state restrictions on firearms has ever been overturned on Second Amendment grounds. Well, the second amendment is phrased differently than the first amendment. The first says “the congress shall enact no law…”. The second says, “…shall not be infringed.” I see those phrasings as intentional. The first specifically means the feds can’t do it, but say nothing about any other jurisdiction. I believe the intent of the second phrasing was that _nobody_ can pass a law restricting gun ownership among the populace; otherwise, they’d have phrased it as they did the first. However, I would favor an amendment restricting automatics, bazookas, etc. ---
**Author:** ![BobLibDem](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/boblibdem/32/3149_2.png) [@BobLibDem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BobLibDem)\ **Post date:** [April 6, 2006, 5:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-guns-make-a-home-safer-or-not/351577/13 "2006-04-06T17:05:07Z")
What matters isn’t what common folk like you or I read into it, it’s what the courts read into it. If you could provide a cite where the courts have overturned a gun restriction on Second Amendment grounds I might agree with you. But as I understand it, the courts have nearly always supported the interpretation that I subscribe to. ---
**Author:** ![Scumpup](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ce73a5/32.png) [@Scumpup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scumpup)\ **Post date:** [April 6, 2006, 5:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-guns-make-a-home-safer-or-not/351577/14 "2006-04-06T17:19:58Z")
> [@bup](#): > > However, I would favor an amendment restricting automatics, bazookas, etc. Those are already about as heavily restricted as they can be withourt being banned outright by the feds. Some of the states do ban them. ---
**Author:** ![Scumpup](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ce73a5/32.png) [@Scumpup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scumpup)\ **Post date:** [April 6, 2006, 5:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-guns-make-a-home-safer-or-not/351577/15 "2006-04-06T17:21:24Z")
> [@BobLibDem](#): > > What matters isn’t what common folk like you or I read into it, it’s what the courts read into it. If you could provide a cite where the courts have overturned a gun restriction on Second Amendment grounds I might agree with you. But as I understand it, the courts have nearly always supported the interpretation that I subscribe to. I’d be interested in a cite on that. It is my understanding that the courts, the Supreme Court anyway, pretty consistently dodge making any ruling on what it means. ---
**Author:** ![What\_Exit](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/what_exit/32/10652_2.png) [@What\_Exit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/What_Exit)\ **Post date:** [April 6, 2006, 5:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-guns-make-a-home-safer-or-not/351577/16 "2006-04-06T17:26:09Z")
Bup: Statistically aren’t incidents of people actually protecting themselves with guns and people accidentally get shot by the family gun both so low that gun ownership could not be classified as either Safe or Dangerous. Unless someone can put up statistics showing either of the occurrences to be higher than I expect, I don’t believe it could be said that owning a gun makes your home safer for most of the US. Now if someone lived on the edge of the wild, having a well maintained gun in a safe location might help you protect your home from a wild animal. I am much more willing to believe this. Would there be statistics on this though. Do Montana Ranchers report when they shoot a wild animal? I doubt it. I don’t think the last part could be answered by INTERNET searchers. Jim ---
**Author:** ![simster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/simster/32/1047_2.png) [@simster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/simster)\ **Post date:** [April 6, 2006, 5:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-guns-make-a-home-safer-or-not/351577/17 "2006-04-06T17:27:13Z")
You first have to better define what you want to be safer from? External violence (ala home robbery) by people that are unknown to you? Yes, I am of the opinion that Gun ownership makes things arguably safer… the criminal element largely depends upon folks that are unwilling or unalbe to fight back… the more that are willing and able, the more the criminal(s) will second guess when/where to attack. So, while it may not prevent your house being robbed, it may very well prevent you being robbed when you are likely to be home. Similar reports with “street violence” going down in areas where concealed carry laws were inacted… the would be robbers are less likely to attack if the risks are higher to them. One could argue that the criminal will respond with the use of more aggressive techniques…or that they will target known "gun owners’ (when they are not home) in order to get the guns. Now, if you are taking the position that those in posession of guns are more likely to use them (when they are angry, depressed) against others of the same household… well, statistics will probably prove that houses with guns are more prone to gun violence… but those are biased statistics… houses without guns simply use ‘other means’ in these situations. In the end, it will always be debatable because each side of the debate chooses which evidence it wishes to argue… Criminals, by definition, could care less about what new ‘laws’ are enacted… new laws on Gun ownership only serve to take away rights of the law abiding citizen, and do absolutely nothing to prevent the criminal usage of them. Enforcing the already existing laws, and making the punishment for gun related criminal activities much more severe is what is needed to curb _some_ of the issue. ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [April 6, 2006, 5:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-guns-make-a-home-safer-or-not/351577/18 "2006-04-06T17:52:38Z")
> [@Scumpup](#): > > It is my understanding that the courts, the Supreme Court anyway, pretty consistently dodge making any ruling on what it means. And _I’ve_ heard that gun supporters consistantly avoid going to court because they fear a ruling against them. I don’t know if it’s true or not; IMHO neither side really cares much about the facts, as a rule. ---
**Author:** ![jebert](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ec9cab/32.png) [@jebert](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jebert)\ **Post date:** [April 6, 2006, 5:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-guns-make-a-home-safer-or-not/351577/19 "2006-04-06T17:55:35Z")
> [@Scumpup](#): > > I’d be interested in a cite on that. It is my understanding that the courts, the Supreme Court anyway, pretty consistently dodge making any ruling on what it means. It is my understanding that it is not the Supreme Court doing the dodging; it is the opponents and proponents of gun control. Either side could easily bring a test case through the system, but the risk of it going the wrong way is much too great. They are both content to work to influence the legislative branch; nobody wants to risk a definitive ruling on the matter. ---
**Author:** ![bup](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/6bbea6/32.png) [@bup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bup)\ **Post date:** [April 6, 2006, 6:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-guns-make-a-home-safer-or-not/351577/20 "2006-04-06T18:04:12Z")
> [@BobLibDem](#): > > What matters isn’t what common folk like you or I read into it, it’s what the courts read into it. While that’s literally true, I’d expect you, **BobLibDem** , to acknowledge that courts often do what’s politically expedient, not what’s intellectually honest. > [@Scumpup](#): > > [Automatics, etc.] are already about as heavily restricted as they can be withourt being banned outright by the feds. Some of the states do ban them. Of course. I think it’s unconstitutional, though. > [@simster](#): > > You first have to better define what you want to be safer from? I want the definition to be - living in a country where owning firearms is widely legal, if I have a gun in my house, am I more likely to be alive a year from now than if I don’t have a gun in my house? I recognize the difficulty in measuring that, but let’s hear some suggestions. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-guns-make-a-home-safer-or-not/351577.md?page=2)