# Do hardcore vegans abstain from honey? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [January 30, 2003, 8:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-hardcore-vegans-abstain-from-honey/151574 "2003-01-30T08:10:04Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Sock\_Munkey](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/aeb1de/32.png) [@Sock\_Munkey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sock_Munkey)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2003, 8:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-hardcore-vegans-abstain-from-honey/151574/1 "2003-01-30T08:10:04Z")
Does honey not count as an “animal product” in their eyes since its’ made by insects? ---
**Author:** ![BobT](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/8e8cbc/32.png) [@BobT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BobT)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2003, 8:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-hardcore-vegans-abstain-from-honey/151574/2 "2003-01-30T08:31:28Z")
I’ve heard a vegan say that honey is “exploitative of bees”. IANAV, but I believe there are different levels of veganism. ---
**Author:** ![Zagadka](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/zagadka/32/7272_2.png) [@Zagadka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zagadka)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2003, 8:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-hardcore-vegans-abstain-from-honey/151574/3 "2003-01-30T08:41:38Z")
Do vegans not have a problem eating food grown in farmed land that displaced and often threaten the regoinal existence of critters living there? 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Sock\_Munkey](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/aeb1de/32.png) [@Sock\_Munkey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sock_Munkey)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2003, 8:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-hardcore-vegans-abstain-from-honey/151574/4 "2003-01-30T08:46:50Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Zagadka \* > \*\*Do vegans not have a problem eating food grown in farmed land that displaced and often threaten the regoinal existence of critters living there? 🙂 \*\* Im’ just talking about bees and honey. Having man-made hives around does no environmental harm, it helps the environment by keeping more bees around to pollinate plants. ---
**Author:** ![grimpixie](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/ecb155/32.png) [@grimpixie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/grimpixie)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2003, 10:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-hardcore-vegans-abstain-from-honey/151574/5 "2003-01-30T10:10:25Z")
Since I work with a vegan, I asked her the question - she doesn’t, she refers to honey as “bee-vomit”, but she said that the UK Vegan Society used to allow people who ate honey, but recently changed its mind and such people are now only admitted as associate members. From [their website on the issue:](http://www.vegansociety.com/html/info/info24.html) > [@](#): > > Because bees are seen flying free, they are also often considered free of the usual cruelties of the animal farming industry. However bees are treated exactly the same as any other farm animal. They undergo routine examination and handling, artificial feeding regimes, drug and pesticide treatment, genetic manipulation, artificial insemination, transportation (by air, rail and road) and slaughter. ---
**Author:** ![Gorsnak](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gorsnak/32/7587_2.png) [@Gorsnak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gorsnak)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2003, 10:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-hardcore-vegans-abstain-from-honey/151574/6 "2003-01-30T10:36:58Z")
Won’t someone _please_ think of the bees??? All that mental anguish! Can you imagine the crushing pain of having one’s food stores stolen and having to subsist on nutritionally equivalent replacements? And constantly being smoked out of your home? Ah, my heat goes out to the poor, wretched honey bee. ---
**Author:** ![Zagadka](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/zagadka/32/7272_2.png) [@Zagadka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zagadka)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2003, 10:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-hardcore-vegans-abstain-from-honey/151574/7 "2003-01-30T10:53:48Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Sock Munkey \* > \*\*Im’ just talking about bees and honey. Having man-made hives around does no environmental harm, it helps the environment by keeping more bees around to pollinate plants. \*\* Oh, I know, I was just curious about the land use ideology of vegans. It is really a moot question, since that land is used to raise food for critters and for grazing land anyway, and I know many vegans and vegitarians alike who would prefer a food source that utilized minimal amounts of farmland. Curiosity killed the cow. Mmmm… cow… ---
**Author:** ![BURNER](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/ccd318/32.png) [@BURNER](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BURNER)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2003, 1:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-hardcore-vegans-abstain-from-honey/151574/8 "2003-01-30T13:33:21Z")
Actualy unless all vegans eat is honey they are being hypocrits. Honey is the only food **ON THE PLANET** where something doesnt have to die in order for us to eat it. They can eat all the vegetables they want and have their “moral supiriority” to the rest of the carnivorous population but they should admit that for them to eat they have to kill just like the rest of us. The only diffrence between a cow and a broccoli stalk is that broccoli isnt cute and cuddly when it is young. ---
**Author:** ![Annie-Xmas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ecc23a/32.png) [@Annie-Xmas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Annie-Xmas)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2003, 1:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-hardcore-vegans-abstain-from-honey/151574/9 "2003-01-30T13:35:44Z")
I once heard a vegen on the radio say they don’t eat honey cause it’s “bee food, not people food.” I’ve always wanted to e-mail PETA and ask them if it’s okay to use lambskin condems, just to see their answer. ---
**Author:** ![Ethilrist](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ethilrist/32/4604_2.png) [@Ethilrist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ethilrist)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2003, 1:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-hardcore-vegans-abstain-from-honey/151574/10 "2003-01-30T13:39:29Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by BURNER \* > \*\*Actualy unless all vegans eat is honey they are being hypocrits. Honey is the only food **ON THE PLANET** where something doesnt have to die in order for us to eat it. \*\* There’s this new product out. They’re calling it “fruit.” ---
**Author:** ![Gary\_T](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/3ec8ea/32.png) [@Gary\_T](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gary_T)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2003, 1:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-hardcore-vegans-abstain-from-honey/151574/11 "2003-01-30T13:59:14Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by BURNER \* > \*\*Actualy unless all vegans eat is honey they are being hypocrits. Honey is the only food **ON THE PLANET** where something doesnt have to die in order for us to eat it \*\* So who or what do you kill to get milk? ---
**Author:** ![CookingWithGas](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cookingwithgas/32/485_2.png) [@CookingWithGas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CookingWithGas)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2003, 2:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-hardcore-vegans-abstain-from-honey/151574/12 "2003-01-30T14:00:20Z")
> [@](#): > > _Originally posted by BURNER \*\*\* > Honey is the only food ON THE PLANET where something doesnt have to die in order for us to eat it._\* > [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Ethilrist \* > \*\*There’s this new product out. They’re calling it “fruit.” \*\* Fruit is a living organism, as is any plant-based food. However, milk and eggs do not require the death of any living thing. In the words of Mort Downey Jr., “What’s wrong with eating animals? They eat each other!” ---
**Author:** ![Random](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/57b2e6/32.png) [@Random](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Random)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2003, 2:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-hardcore-vegans-abstain-from-honey/151574/13 "2003-01-30T14:07:30Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by CookingWithGas \* > \*\*However, milk and eggs do not require the death of any living thing. > > \*\* I agree with this, but suspect that strict vegans may not, especially in the case of eggs. Does that mean that vegans must be anti-abortion? If not, how do they reconcile the inconsistency? ---
**Author:** ![CookingWithGas](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cookingwithgas/32/485_2.png) [@CookingWithGas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CookingWithGas)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2003, 2:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-hardcore-vegans-abstain-from-honey/151574/14 "2003-01-30T14:15:00Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Random \* > \*\*. . . .Does that mean that vegans must be anti-abortion? If not, how do they reconcile the inconsistency? \*\* Unfertilized eggs introduce no inconsistency. ---
**Author:** ![starfish](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/87869e/32.png) [@starfish](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/starfish)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2003, 2:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-hardcore-vegans-abstain-from-honey/151574/15 "2003-01-30T14:20:12Z")
Good site **grimpixie**. “They undergo routine examination and handling, artificial feeding regimes, drug and pesticide treatment, genetic manipulation, artificial insemination, transportation (by air, rail and road) and slaughter.” That sounds like modern farming. Organic farming would use natural drugs and pesticides instead of man made ones. But back to the OP - Hardcore vegans don’t eat animal products and honey is an animal product. Vegan is a belief that doesn’t hurt other people; they don’t need to explain it or justify it. As with any belief system, there will be many who like the concept but don’t follow it strictly. ---
**Author:** ![Phlosphr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/c68b51/32.png) [@Phlosphr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Phlosphr)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2003, 2:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-hardcore-vegans-abstain-from-honey/151574/16 "2003-01-30T14:28:12Z")
Let me grab the Ol’DSM IV off the shelf. Yep veganism in some forms, is categorized under Obsessive Compulsive disorder. And can lead to a severe eating disorder. Mrs.Phlosphr and I tried it out briefly in College, then found out it was more practical - especially during dinner engagements - to just be _chicken-vegetarians_. It’s much more fun, and we avoid looking like hardcore activists at family BBQ’s. ---
**Author:** ![Random](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/57b2e6/32.png) [@Random](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Random)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2003, 2:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-hardcore-vegans-abstain-from-honey/151574/17 "2003-01-30T14:33:46Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by CookingWithGas \* > \*\*Unfertilized eggs introduce no inconsistency. \*\* If I’ve understanding the point you’re trying to make, I think you’ve got it backwards. I don’t think vegans eat any eggs, whether fertilized or not. Therefore, my question stands. ---
**Author:** ![H8\_2\_W8](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/c77e96/32.png) [@H8\_2\_W8](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/H8_2_W8)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2003, 2:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-hardcore-vegans-abstain-from-honey/151574/18 "2003-01-30T14:45:32Z")
Seriously though - Do hardcore vegans swallow after performing fellatio? (Don’t tell me you’ve never thought about it!) ---
**Author:** ![Balduran](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/cc9497/32.png) [@Balduran](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Balduran)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2003, 2:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-hardcore-vegans-abstain-from-honey/151574/19 "2003-01-30T14:59:50Z")
A friend told me about how her hardcore vegan friends would not have their pictures taken because film used some substances extracted from fish scales. Man, when you’re at that level of veganism, it’s a full-time job to see what you can or can’t do. ---
**Author:** ![booklover](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/85f322/32.png) [@booklover](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/booklover)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2003, 3:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-hardcore-vegans-abstain-from-honey/151574/20 "2003-01-30T15:00:09Z")
Most of the vegans I know do not eat any food that comes from an animal, which includes honey, milk, eggs, etc. I’m an ovo-lacto vegetarian, which means that I do eat honey, eggs, and dairy but abstain from any animal flesh and other products that require the killing of an animal (for instance, gelatin). [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-hardcore-vegans-abstain-from-honey/151574.md?page=2)