# Do "hardened schools" prevent mass shootings? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [May 22, 2018, 1:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-hardened-schools-prevent-mass-shootings/814617 "2018-05-22T13:26:36Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 12
**Author:** ![Slash1972](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slash1972/32/6461_2.png) [@Slash1972](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slash1972)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2018, 5:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-hardened-schools-prevent-mass-shootings/814617/221 "2018-05-25T17:09:15Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > They might have a device that prevents any but the owner from firing it Are there any guns on the market anywhere that have this feature? ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2018, 5:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-hardened-schools-prevent-mass-shootings/814617/222 "2018-05-25T17:10:06Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > the LV shooter wasnt a criminal before he bought his guns, thus indeed- criminals dont buy their guns from gun stores. Yes, to commit a gun crime you first have to have a gun. Quite a remarkable insight. ---
**Author:** ![Slash1972](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slash1972/32/6461_2.png) [@Slash1972](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slash1972)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2018, 5:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-hardened-schools-prevent-mass-shootings/814617/223 "2018-05-25T17:10:53Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > Dont be pedantic. :rolleyes:We were talking about professional criminals and if you are going to be pedantic- the LV shooter wasnt a criminal before he bought his guns, thus indeed- criminals dont buy their guns from gun stores. I’m honestly trying to understand what you mean here. According to you, if someone legally purchases a gun, and then uses that gun to commit a crime, somehow they don’t get included in your “criminals don’t buy guns legally” statement? Also, what is a professional criminal? ---
**Author:** ![Slash1972](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slash1972/32/6461_2.png) [@Slash1972](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slash1972)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2018, 5:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-hardened-schools-prevent-mass-shootings/814617/224 "2018-05-25T17:12:50Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > You can go to any car dealer in CA and buy any car made before 2013. :rolleyes: And if someone was arguing that they couldn’t buy a car in CA, I would be as sceptical as I am about someone lamenting the fact that there are only 809 models of gun available for purchase, and you can purchase as many of them as you like. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2018, 5:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-hardened-schools-prevent-mass-shootings/814617/225 "2018-05-25T17:14:07Z")
> [@Slash1972](#): > > I’m honestly trying to understand what you mean here. > > According to you, if someone legally purchases a gun, and then uses that gun to commit a crime, somehow they don’t get included in your “criminals don’t buy guns legally” statement? > > Also, what is a professional criminal? No, you’re not. Look, what we were talking about is professional criminals- those with records, who make their living from crime. You know damn well what a professional criminal is. :rolleyes: \*Before \*he did that mass killing, the LV shooter wasnt a criminal- he had no record. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2018, 5:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-hardened-schools-prevent-mass-shootings/814617/226 "2018-05-25T17:15:45Z")
> [@Slash1972](#): > > Are there any guns on the market anywhere that have this feature? > **[Smart gun](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Smart_gun)** > > A smart gun, also called a smart-gun, or smartgun, is a firearm that can detect its authorized user(s) or something that is normally only possessed by its authorized user(s). The term is also used in science fiction to refer to various types of semi-automatic firearms. > Smart guns have one or more systems that allow them to fire only when activated by an authorized user. Those systems typically employ RFID chips or other proximity tokens, fingerprint recognition, magnetic rings, or mechanical lo... ---
**Author:** ![Slash1972](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slash1972/32/6461_2.png) [@Slash1972](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slash1972)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2018, 5:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-hardened-schools-prevent-mass-shootings/814617/227 "2018-05-25T17:20:41Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > No, you’re not. > > Look, what we were talking about is professional criminals- those with records, who make their living from crime. You know damn well what a professional criminal is. :rolleyes: > > \*Before \*he did that mass killing, the LV shooter wasnt a criminal- he had no record. Yes, I am. About how many crimes does one have to commit before becoming a “professional criminal”? Must one be convicted of a crime to be a “professional criminal”? If a guy with no criminal record steals a gun and kills someone, would he be one of your “criminals don’t buy guns at a gun store” people? ---
**Author:** ![Slash1972](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slash1972/32/6461_2.png) [@Slash1972](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slash1972)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2018, 5:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-hardened-schools-prevent-mass-shootings/814617/228 "2018-05-25T17:21:45Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > [Smart gun - Wikipedia](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Smart_gun) That’s a nice overview, but I’m sort of looking to purchase one. Are there some for sale anywhere? ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2018, 5:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-hardened-schools-prevent-mass-shootings/814617/229 "2018-05-25T17:22:04Z")
> [@Slash1972](#): > > Yes, I am. > > About how many crimes does one have to commit before becoming a “professional criminal”? Must one be convicted of a crime to be a “professional criminal”? > > If a guy with no criminal record steals a gun and kills someone, would he be one of your “criminals don’t buy guns at a gun store” people? You are no longer debating honestly, I will no longer respond to your “JAQ” way of “debating”. ---
**Author:** ![Slash1972](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slash1972/32/6461_2.png) [@Slash1972](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slash1972)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2018, 5:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-hardened-schools-prevent-mass-shootings/814617/230 "2018-05-25T17:23:36Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > You are no longer debating honestly, I will no longer respond to your “JAQ” way of “debating”. Of course I am. I really want to know what you mean by “professional criminal” If your answers highlight the ridiculousness of your own arguments, that’s not my problem. ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2018, 5:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-hardened-schools-prevent-mass-shootings/814617/231 "2018-05-25T17:29:46Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > You know damn well what a professional criminal is. :rolleyes: Something like a boogeyman, right? ---
**Author:** ![Larry\_Borgia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/larry_borgia/32/156_2.png) [@Larry\_Borgia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Larry_Borgia)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2018, 6:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-hardened-schools-prevent-mass-shootings/814617/232 "2018-05-25T18:23:13Z")
> [@ElvisL1ves](#): > > Got a cite for that happening? **DrDeth** , I’m also curious about this. I tried google but all I could find was stories of people bringing guns into NYC, not anyone whose airline was forced down on a trip between two different states. I believe you, but I’d like to see the story. ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2018, 6:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-hardened-schools-prevent-mass-shootings/814617/233 "2018-05-25T18:29:32Z")
It could be something like the Florida NRA complaining that concealed carriers were being arrested for brandishing if their jackets blew open in wind gusts - except that it never happened. ---
**Author:** ![k9bfriender](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/k9bfriender/32/3283_2.png) [@k9bfriender](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/k9bfriender)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2018, 6:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-hardened-schools-prevent-mass-shootings/814617/234 "2018-05-25T18:36:38Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > The Gun store keeps the records FOR the ATF. The records are the property of the ATF. > > If a gun is used in a crime, the ATF can find out from the manufacturer which gun store it was shipped to, then require that store to report back on who bought it. > > However, since criminals- by and large- don’t buy their guns legally from gun store- it’s usually a useless task. Right, because they buy them from the guy standing outside the gun store. Then when the ATF shows up at the gun store, and then goes to the person who legally purchased the gun, he says, “Oh, I sold it to some guy for $500 cash.” ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2018, 7:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-hardened-schools-prevent-mass-shootings/814617/235 "2018-05-25T19:04:13Z")
> [@Larry\_Borgia](#): > > **DrDeth** , I’m also curious about this. I tried google but all I could find was stories of people bringing guns into NYC, not anyone whose airline was forced down on a trip between two different states. > > I believe you, but I’d like to see the story. See this thread. [https://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=854946](https://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=854946) ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2018, 7:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-hardened-schools-prevent-mass-shootings/814617/236 "2018-05-25T19:08:34Z")
> [@k9bfriender](#): > > Right, because they buy them from the guy standing outside the gun store. > > Then when the ATF shows up at the gun store, and then goes to the person who legally purchased the gun, he says, “Oh, I sold it to some guy for $500 cash.” Strawman sales are, unfortunately, all too common. Mostly they steal the guns, but yes, that does happen. The ATF even knows who the biggest strawman sellers are, but they have not wanted to prosecute for some reason. ---
**Author:** ![Larry\_Borgia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/larry_borgia/32/156_2.png) [@Larry\_Borgia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Larry_Borgia)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2018, 7:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-hardened-schools-prevent-mass-shootings/814617/237 "2018-05-25T19:11:36Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > See this thread. > [https://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=854946](https://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=854946) Could you point me to the specific post in that thread that describes a case where: 1)A passenger on an airliner was transporting a gun between two states where it would have been legal. 1. The plane was forced down in NY. 2. The passenger was arrested on a weapons charge. ---
**Author:** ![Slash1972](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slash1972/32/6461_2.png) [@Slash1972](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slash1972)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2018, 7:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-hardened-schools-prevent-mass-shootings/814617/238 "2018-05-25T19:41:15Z")
There seem to be some articles out there that show a plane was diverted to NYC for mechanical or other issues, and a gun owner had to recheck his bags in NYC and was arrested. They are usually on blogs or whatever, so I don’t know how good a source they are. [Here’s one.](https://www.usconcealedcarry.com/uscca-member-arrested-new-york-city-airport/?email=AR8_pros_e09&link=AR_t_1&utm_source=SilverpopMailing&utm_medium=email&listID=191286&MAILING_ID=11303625&utm_campaign=AR8_9.html%20(12)&sentDate=July%2021,%202015&utm_content=&member_level=Platinum+Plus&spMailingID=11303625&spUserID=MTk2MDQ1NDAzOTI3S0&spJobID=581493929&spReportId=NTgxNDYzMTA2S0) Also, a lot of people are going on vacation with their guns. Are people that afraid? ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2018, 8:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-hardened-schools-prevent-mass-shootings/814617/239 "2018-05-25T20:03:42Z")
> [@Slash1972](#): > > There seem to be some articles out there that show a plane was diverted to NYC for mechanical or other issues, and a gun owner had to recheck his bags in NYC and was arrested. They are usually on blogs or whatever, so I don’t know how good a source they are. [Here’s one.](https://www.usconcealedcarry.com/uscca-member-arrested-new-york-city-airport/?email=AR8_pros_e09&link=AR_t_1&utm_source=SilverpopMailing&utm_medium=email&listID=191286&MAILING_ID=11303625&utm_campaign=AR8_9.html%20(12)&sentDate=July%2021,%202015&utm_content=&member_level=Platinum+Plus&spMailingID=11303625&spUserID=MTk2MDQ1NDAzOTI3S0&spJobID=581493929&spReportId=NTgxNDYzMTA2S0) > > Also, a lot of people are going on vacation with their guns. Are people that afraid? They are likely going on a hunting vacation. > **[John Stossel: New York City locks up people for carrying guns legally...](https://www.foxnews.com/opinion/john-stossel-new-york-city-locks-up-people-for-carrying-guns-legally-licensed-by-other-states)** > > Have a gun license? Plan to bring your gun to my hometown? Don't. > **[Legal Guns en Route to New York Are Cause for Arrest Before Flight Home...](https://www.nytimes.com/2013/06/10/nyregion/lawful-handguns-departing-for-new-york-but-unlawful-upon-arrival.html)** > > Many travelers who lock their gun in a box and check it at the local airport don’t realize that the laws of the state they are leaving do not apply in New York. ---
**Author:** ![Slash1972](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slash1972/32/6461_2.png) [@Slash1972](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slash1972)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2018, 8:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-hardened-schools-prevent-mass-shootings/814617/240 "2018-05-25T20:05:20Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > They are likely going on a hunting vacation. > > [John Stossel: New York City locks up people for carrying guns legally licensed by other states | Fox News](http://www.foxnews.com/opinion/2017/08/09/john-stossel-new-york-city-locks-up-people-for-carrying-guns-legally-licensed-by-other-states.html) > > [https://www.nytimes.com/2013/06/10/nyregion/lawful-handguns-departing-for-new-york-but-unlawful-upon-arrival.html](https://www.nytimes.com/2013/06/10/nyregion/lawful-handguns-departing-for-new-york-but-unlawful-upon-arrival.html) Sure I could understand that. But the first article above says “for protection”. But I hadn’t thought of hunting, so that’s cool. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-hardened-schools-prevent-mass-shootings/814617.md?page=11) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-hardened-schools-prevent-mass-shootings/814617.md?page=13)