# Do "hardened schools" prevent mass shootings? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [May 22, 2018, 1:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-hardened-schools-prevent-mass-shootings/814617 "2018-05-22T13:26:36Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 17
**Author:** ![SamuelA](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/c77e96/32.png) [@SamuelA](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SamuelA)\ **Post date:** [May 30, 2018, 6:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-hardened-schools-prevent-mass-shootings/814617/321 "2018-05-30T18:25:53Z")
> [@ElvisL1ves](#): > > I think you could figure something out eventually. There are 50 states. Each has a different policy. _Some_ states it is perfectly legal to sell to any other citizen of the same state any number of guns you have bought. They are supposed to show their driver’s license but there is no requirement to write down the number. A bedrock principle of **Federalism** means the Feds cannot easily stop this kind of inside a state sale no matter what law they pass, because the state government can sue to get the law blocked in Federal court. And they will. So to “fix” these gaping loopholes may require every single state, some of whom are full of huge majorities of conservative, gun loving voters, to pass laws blocking them. And then you have the other 200+ countries in the world you might be able to smuggle guns from instead. Just so you know, if I had my way, we’d outlaw all non-smart guns and just have more police in closer proximity to where people might need help. Eventually develop robotic police, armed with nonlethal weapons. But I am well aware this issue is far harder to solve than you might think. ---
**Author:** ![Slash1972](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slash1972/32/6461_2.png) [@Slash1972](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slash1972)\ **Post date:** [May 30, 2018, 6:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-hardened-schools-prevent-mass-shootings/814617/322 "2018-05-30T18:27:44Z")
> [@Scumpup](#): > > What, exactly, do you see happening long term if you could wave your little magic wand with the star on it and end gun smuggling from US to Mexico this moment? I say we would see an almost immediate drop in guns from the US being smuggled into Mexico. ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [May 30, 2018, 6:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-hardened-schools-prevent-mass-shootings/814617/323 "2018-05-30T18:30:07Z")
> [@SamuelA](#): > > A bedrock principle of **Federalism** means the Feds cannot easily stop this kind of inside a state sale no matter what law they pass, because the state government can sue to get the law blocked in Federal court. And they will. Ever hear of the Commerce Clause? Or any of the jurisprudence surrounding it? In short, you’re wrong. > [@](#): > > But I am well aware this issue is far harder to solve than you might think. The difficulty comes from resistance, not complexity. ---
**Author:** ![Scumpup](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ce73a5/32.png) [@Scumpup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scumpup)\ **Post date:** [May 30, 2018, 7:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-hardened-schools-prevent-mass-shootings/814617/324 "2018-05-30T19:13:51Z")
> [@Slash1972](#): > > I say we would see an almost immediate drop in guns from the US being smuggled into Mexico. Is that goal, in isolation, what this is all about for you? ---
**Author:** ![Slash1972](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slash1972/32/6461_2.png) [@Slash1972](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slash1972)\ **Post date:** [May 30, 2018, 7:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-hardened-schools-prevent-mass-shootings/814617/325 "2018-05-30T19:25:53Z")
> [@Scumpup](#): > > Is that goal, in isolation, what this is all about for you? Well I, for one, would like to see less guns from the US smuggled into Mexico. Don’t you? ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [May 30, 2018, 7:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-hardened-schools-prevent-mass-shootings/814617/326 "2018-05-30T19:34:12Z")
> [@Scumpup](#): > > Is that goal, in isolation, what this is all about for you? Don’t you think there’d be a consequence of having fewer guns in the hands of criminals that might actually be considered by some to be a worthwhile goal? Tell us what you think that is. Sheesh. ---
**Author:** ![Scumpup](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ce73a5/32.png) [@Scumpup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scumpup)\ **Post date:** [May 30, 2018, 8:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-hardened-schools-prevent-mass-shootings/814617/327 "2018-05-30T20:01:17Z")
> [@Slash1972](#): > > Well I, for one, would like to see less guns from the US smuggled into Mexico. Don’t you? Would I like to? Yes, as long as anything that is done at this end is demonstrably for that goal, is workable, and isn’t just part of an overall goal of reducing gun ownership in the US. Make it a death penalty offense to be caught smuggling guns into Mexico. I’ll sign off on it. Will you? ---
**Author:** ![Slash1972](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slash1972/32/6461_2.png) [@Slash1972](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slash1972)\ **Post date:** [May 30, 2018, 8:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-hardened-schools-prevent-mass-shootings/814617/328 "2018-05-30T20:04:13Z")
> [@Scumpup](#): > > Would I like to? Yes, as long as anything that is done at this end is demonstrably for that goal, is workable, and isn’t just part of an overall goal of reducing gun ownership in the US. Make it a death penalty offense to be caught smuggling guns into Mexico. I’ll sign off on it. Will you? Sure! Also, make it a death penalty offense to give/sell/transfer/what-have-you a gun to a person who wouldn’t pass the background check. How’s that? ---
**Author:** ![Scumpup](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ce73a5/32.png) [@Scumpup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scumpup)\ **Post date:** [May 30, 2018, 8:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-hardened-schools-prevent-mass-shootings/814617/329 "2018-05-30T20:05:50Z")
> [@ElvisL1ves](#): > > Don’t you think there’d be a consequence of having fewer guns in the hands of criminals that might actually be considered by some to be a worthwhile goal? Tell us what you think that is. > > Sheesh. I think I have seen you do your little dance around what the word “criminal” means that I decline to watch you perform it again. If that gives you a bad day, I am sorry for those who get hurt. ---
**Author:** ![k9bfriender](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/k9bfriender/32/3283_2.png) [@k9bfriender](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/k9bfriender)\ **Post date:** [May 30, 2018, 8:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-hardened-schools-prevent-mass-shootings/814617/330 "2018-05-30T20:06:59Z")
> [@Scumpup](#): > > Would I like to? Yes, as long as anything that is done at this end is demonstrably for that goal, is workable, and isn’t just part of an overall goal of reducing gun ownership in the US. Make it a death penalty offense to be caught smuggling guns into Mexico. I’ll sign off on it. Will you? As long as it is a death penalty offense to smuggle or aid in the smuggling of guns across state lines. Sell your gun to someone who takes it out of state illegally, and you are on the hook for that too. Best do some background checks, or at least know your buyer damn well. ---
**Author:** ![Scumpup](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ce73a5/32.png) [@Scumpup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scumpup)\ **Post date:** [May 30, 2018, 8:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-hardened-schools-prevent-mass-shootings/814617/331 "2018-05-30T20:09:43Z")
> [@k9bfriender](#): > > As long as it is a death penalty offense to smuggle or aid in the smuggling of guns across state lines. > > Sell your gun to someone who takes it out of state illegally, and you are on the hook for that too. Best do some background checks, or at least know your buyer damn well. See? I offer the most draconian solution to the problem, but it is not enough. This is exactly why I refuse to "compromise " with antis. ---
**Author:** ![k9bfriender](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/k9bfriender/32/3283_2.png) [@k9bfriender](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/k9bfriender)\ **Post date:** [May 30, 2018, 8:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-hardened-schools-prevent-mass-shootings/814617/332 "2018-05-30T20:15:55Z")
> [@Scumpup](#): > > See? I offer the most draconian solution to the problem, but it is not enough. This is exactly why I refuse to "compromise " with antis. Well, no, you offered a draconian solution to apply to other people, but not one that would apply to yourself. This is exactly why I never expect to see a “pro” argue in good faith. ---
**Author:** ![Scumpup](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ce73a5/32.png) [@Scumpup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scumpup)\ **Post date:** [May 30, 2018, 8:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-hardened-schools-prevent-mass-shootings/814617/333 "2018-05-30T20:21:35Z")
> [@k9bfriender](#): > > Well, no, you offered a draconian solution to apply to other people, but not one that would apply to yourself. > > This is exactly why I never expect to see a “pro” argue in good faith. You’re right. It doesn’t apply to me. I don’t smuggle guns into Mexico or make straw purchases for those who do (or anybody else). Peddle those papers somewhere else, sparky. ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [May 30, 2018, 8:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-hardened-schools-prevent-mass-shootings/814617/334 "2018-05-30T20:22:52Z")
> [@Scumpup](#): > > I think I have seen you do your little dance around what the word “criminal” means that I decline to watch you perform it again. If you’re having trouble with the concept that saving lives is a worthy goal, there’s nothing more to say to you anyway. ---
**Author:** ![Scumpup](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ce73a5/32.png) [@Scumpup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scumpup)\ **Post date:** [May 30, 2018, 8:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-hardened-schools-prevent-mass-shootings/814617/335 "2018-05-30T20:26:42Z")
> [@ElvisL1ves](#): > > If you’re having trouble with the concept that saving lives is a worthy goal, there’s nothing more to say to you anyway. No, that’s not it at all. Anybody who is curious can run a search and watch you gavotte around terms like “law abiding.” This topic interests me. Your tired antics do not. ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [May 30, 2018, 8:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-hardened-schools-prevent-mass-shootings/814617/336 "2018-05-30T20:39:23Z")
IOW, “Nuh-uh!” again. This really isn’t going well for you, is it? ---
**Author:** ![k9bfriender](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/k9bfriender/32/3283_2.png) [@k9bfriender](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/k9bfriender)\ **Post date:** [May 30, 2018, 8:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-hardened-schools-prevent-mass-shootings/814617/337 "2018-05-30T20:50:19Z")
> [@Scumpup](#): > > You’re right. It doesn’t apply to me. I don’t smuggle guns into Mexico or make straw purchases for those who do (or anybody else). Peddle those papers somewhere else, sparky. Then why the resistance to draconian measures to those who are assisting in getting guns into the hands of criminals? You are the one who suggested the death penalty for people moving guns into mexico, but suddenly balk when it may apply domestically as well? ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [May 30, 2018, 8:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-hardened-schools-prevent-mass-shootings/814617/338 "2018-05-30T20:58:20Z")
> [@ElvisL1ves](#): > > Post 294. :rolleyes: > I think you know why. It’s been explained enough. But you claimed it had never been tried. Now you admit it has been tried and failed. Of course the excuse why is that guns can come from elsewhere, but they always can, can’t they? ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [May 30, 2018, 8:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-hardened-schools-prevent-mass-shootings/814617/339 "2018-05-30T20:59:32Z")
Nope, try again. Better luck next time. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [May 30, 2018, 9:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-hardened-schools-prevent-mass-shootings/814617/340 "2018-05-30T21:01:33Z")
> [@ElvisL1ves](#): > > The \*\*DrDeth \*\*logic would be that Mexico’s gun control laws just don’t work. \ And they dont. Of course again, there’s always the same old tired excuse which will be trotted out until we have One World Government and 1000% banned guns worldwide. Then there will be a new excuse. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-hardened-schools-prevent-mass-shootings/814617.md?page=16) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-hardened-schools-prevent-mass-shootings/814617.md?page=18)