# Do "hardened schools" prevent mass shootings? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [May 22, 2018, 1:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-hardened-schools-prevent-mass-shootings/814617 "2018-05-22T13:26:36Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 6
**Author:** ![Railer13](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/railer13/32/9742_2.png) [@Railer13](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Railer13)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2018, 6:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-hardened-schools-prevent-mass-shootings/814617/101 "2018-05-23T18:43:37Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > …the gun grabbers here want every single gun gone. I’ve only been on this board for about six months, but I’ve seen this phrase (or similar) posted several times. However, I’ve yet to see any Doper actually seriously advocate this position. Perhaps you can cite some examples? ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2018, 6:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-hardened-schools-prevent-mass-shootings/814617/102 "2018-05-23T18:49:41Z")
> [@ElvisL1ves](#): > > What other things do you propose we do? The OP was about hardening schools. Maybe we could talk about that. Unless you can’t talk about anything besides repealing the 2nd, in which case, my thoughts and prayers are with you. Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![Airbeck](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/airbeck/32/6574_2.png) [@Airbeck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Airbeck)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2018, 7:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-hardened-schools-prevent-mass-shootings/814617/103 "2018-05-23T19:05:55Z")
We did, it’s way too expensive and Adam Lanza got into a “hardened” school anyway. Any ideas that are practical and would be effective? ---
**Author:** ![Lamoral](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lamoral/32/16078_2.png) [@Lamoral](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lamoral)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2018, 7:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-hardened-schools-prevent-mass-shootings/814617/104 "2018-05-23T19:06:57Z")
> [@Scumpup](#): > > But my party never learns…they would rather dick-yank over who is purest and most woke and CARES THE MOST than win offices and accomplish anything. The Republicans do their share of dick-yanking too, it’s just that when they do it, the seed goes into the womb of America. When the Democrats do it, it goes into a tissue. ---
**Author:** ![Bone](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bone/32/407_2.png) [@Bone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bone)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2018, 7:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-hardened-schools-prevent-mass-shootings/814617/105 "2018-05-23T19:09:54Z")
> [@Kobal2](#): > > FWIW, as a non-American I will never be able to read this argument as anything other than “yeah but we have niggers fucking it all up for us”. This is a warning for being a jerk. Throwing around hate speech put into another poster’s mouth should not be done lightly. This would have been a note cautioning you against doing this, however you’ve previously received a warning for doing this same exact thing. Don’t do this any more. > [@Jacquernagy](#): > > I would never in a million years think the word that you used, so take that word and ram it up your ass. > [@Jacquernagy](#): > > Mostly I’m just pissed that you put that vile word into my mouth in your previous post. I don’t suppose I can ask for an apology, in which case I will retract my earlier request for you to ram that word up your ass, _mon ami._ This is a single warning for personal insults, repeated in the two posts above. Telling other posters to ram things up their ass is not appropriate for this forum. If you feel you must, the BBQ Pit is right around the corner. [/moderating] ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2018, 7:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-hardened-schools-prevent-mass-shootings/814617/106 "2018-05-23T19:17:35Z")
> [@Slash1972](#): > > This would seem to me to be “pissing on the Constitution” So, it’s Ok to shit on the 2nd Ad, but not the 1st Ad? ---
**Author:** ![Kobal2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kobal2/32/20_2.png) [@Kobal2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kobal2)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2018, 7:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-hardened-schools-prevent-mass-shootings/814617/107 "2018-05-23T19:20:25Z")
> [@Bone](#): > > This is a warning for being a jerk. Throwing around hate speech put into another poster’s mouth should not be done lightly. [/moderating] I did not put it in anyone’s mouth. I specifically said that’s what **I** , me, myself, personally, read (or hear, if you prefer) when that particular argument is put forward, because it makes no other sense _to me_ and because I’ve heard it many, many times from “race realists” and similar back in that hallowed time when racists kinda had to tiptoe around it in public (so, pre Trump, mostly). I’m open to contrary arguments. I don’t believe \*\*Jacquernagy \*\*to be racist, quite the contrary. If I did I wouldn’t have taken the time to address them in any way. ---
**Author:** ![Slash1972](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slash1972/32/6461_2.png) [@Slash1972](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slash1972)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2018, 7:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-hardened-schools-prevent-mass-shootings/814617/108 "2018-05-23T19:21:16Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > So, it’s Ok to shit on the 2nd Ad, but not the 1st Ad? Sorry, I don’t consider amending the Constitution to be shitting on it. YMMV. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2018, 7:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-hardened-schools-prevent-mass-shootings/814617/109 "2018-05-23T19:22:56Z")
> [@k9bfriender](#): > > This is not a statement that you can back up with facts, especially with the “here” part. That you consider anyone who wants to see fewer children gunned down in their classroom as a gun grabber that wants every single gun gone is only something that you have chosen to believe, but has no relation to reality. > > Right, and we’ve had this conversation before, but, because there are states where you commit no crime if you sell a gun to some guy that offers you money for it, and we don’t really have border control of any kind between states, those weak half measures do no good. > > I can’t parse this sentence. Did you mean “by LE busting down”? If so, why do you think that it would be the case that LEO would be randomly kicking down doors? > > It is the people that are in the 2A camp that are against banning bump stocks and high capacity magazines. They will often even call you a stupid head for even suggesting it. > > And your last one would be a violation of the first amendment. Look, here in this thread are many who have suggested getting rid of the 2nd Ad, to end all School shootings. The only way to end all school shootings is to get rid of all guns. True, but you \*can \*pass such laws if you want to do so, the 2nd Ad does not prevent laws being passed that require background checks. How else would you get rid of every gun in the nation? Not really, such things have wide support. True the most reactionary dont support any restrictions, but they are a tiny minority. I am generally considered “in the 2A camp” but I support such things. (altho a law banning the possession of large magazines is stupid). ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2018, 7:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-hardened-schools-prevent-mass-shootings/814617/110 "2018-05-23T19:27:14Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > The OP was about hardening schools. Maybe we could talk about that. The kids have to go home sometime. Next? > [@](#): > > Unless you can’t talk about anything besides repealing the 2nd, in which case, my thoughts and prayers are with you. Projection from someone with nothing but denialism to offer. Yes, there are a lot of things that we can do, including excising the basis of that denialism, but there is nothing you’ll agree to or fail to mischaracterize or fail to dismiss as a slippery slope, is there? You \*could \*choose to be part of the solution instead. It’s never too late to start. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2018, 7:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-hardened-schools-prevent-mass-shootings/814617/111 "2018-05-23T19:29:00Z")
> [@Railer13](#): > > I’ve only been on this board for about six months, but I’ve seen this phrase (or similar) posted several times. > > However, I’ve yet to see any Doper actually seriously advocate this position. Perhaps you can cite some examples? Here in this thread are many who have suggested getting rid of the 2nd Ad, to end all School shootings. The only way to end all school shootings is to get rid of all guns. Posts 14, 19, 43, and perhaps others. Why else would you repeal the 2nd Ad to end all school shootings? To pass reasonable laws, like the ones you can already pass with the 2nd Ad in place? ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2018, 7:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-hardened-schools-prevent-mass-shootings/814617/112 "2018-05-23T19:29:28Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > The only way to end all school shootings is to get rid of all guns. Would you agree that a reduction would be a good thing? How about a reduction in straw content? it’s odd to learn that amending the Constitution is shitting on it. That’s all the more reason for repealing one, isn’t it? > [@](#): > > To pass reasonable laws, like the ones you can already pass with the 2nd Ad in place? The slippery-slope reactionaries who control the debate, and are represented in this very thread, prevent that. Do you fight them? ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2018, 7:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-hardened-schools-prevent-mass-shootings/814617/113 "2018-05-23T19:34:53Z")
Like what things? Things that don’t violate the 2nd seem to get dismissed out of hand. “Now is not the time” to talk about anything besides scrapping the 2nd. Is that it? Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![Scumpup](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ce73a5/32.png) [@Scumpup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scumpup)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2018, 7:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-hardened-schools-prevent-mass-shootings/814617/114 "2018-05-23T19:43:17Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > Like what things? Things that don’t violate the 2nd seem to get dismissed out of hand. > > “Now is not the time” to talk about anything besides scrapping the 2nd. Is that it? > > Regards, > Shodan You’re missing the point, I fear. They want to TALK about scrapping the 2nd precisely because they know it is ridiculously unlikely to happen. This way, they get to preen over having proposed the solution to gun violence that would have worked. Alas…all those gun fetishists and deplorables and racists and such just wouldn’t let it happen. IOW, it’s not about accomplishing anything. It’s about getting to enjoy feeling simultaneously outraged and superior. ---
**Author:** ![Railer13](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/railer13/32/9742_2.png) [@Railer13](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Railer13)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2018, 7:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-hardened-schools-prevent-mass-shootings/814617/115 "2018-05-23T19:45:11Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > Here in this thread are many who have suggested getting rid of the 2nd Ad, to end all School shootings. Advocating ‘getting rid of the 2nd Ad’ is NOT advocating ‘banning all guns’. That’s a false equivalency. > [@](#): > > The only way to end all school shootings is to get rid of all guns. So you’re saying that as long as we have guns, there will be school shootings, correct? I would hope that we are not yet that hopeless. ---
**Author:** ![k9bfriender](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/k9bfriender/32/3283_2.png) [@k9bfriender](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/k9bfriender)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2018, 7:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-hardened-schools-prevent-mass-shootings/814617/116 "2018-05-23T19:45:30Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > Look, here in this thread are many who have suggested getting rid of the 2nd Ad, to end all School shootings. The only way to end all school shootings is to get rid of all guns. What if we just want to go back to a time when there was one school shooting every several years, rather than several a year? This excluded middle absolutism thing you’ve got going on here doesn’t really impress. > [@](#): > > True, but you \*can \*pass such laws if you want to do so, the 2nd Ad does not prevent laws being passed that require background checks. No I can’t. The people can. What reason do you think that we do not have a national requirement for background checks, then? > [@](#): > > How else would you get rid of every gun in the nation? It is only you that keeps bringing this up. No one else. Maybe if there is confusion, you can take it up with yourself. > [@](#): > > Not really, such things have wide support. True the most reactionary dont support any restrictions, but they are a tiny minority. I am generally considered “in the 2A camp” but I support such things. (altho a law banning the possession of large magazines is stupid). A VERY vocal minority, then. And then of course, you are part of that very minority, as you say you would support a ban on large magazines, but you would think that it is stupid. No idea how to parse that. ---
**Author:** ![Ashtura](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ashtura/32/2963_2.png) [@Ashtura](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ashtura)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2018, 7:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-hardened-schools-prevent-mass-shootings/814617/117 "2018-05-23T19:57:45Z")
> [@k9bfriender](#): > > What if we just want to go back to a time when there was one school shooting every several years, rather than several a year? That’d be great. Which horses can be put back in the barn in order for that to happen? ---
**Author:** ![Chisquirrel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6bbea6/32.png) [@Chisquirrel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chisquirrel)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2018, 8:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-hardened-schools-prevent-mass-shootings/814617/118 "2018-05-23T20:13:00Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > I understand what you are saying, but that works from both ends. There are consequences to saying “the only thing that will help is repealing the 2nd” and refusal to consider anything else in the meantime. > > Because there might be other things we can do, and it might be better to talk about those things rather than something else that has no realistic chance of success for the next fifty years at least. > > Regards, > Shodan The “Repeal the 2nd” movement is coming about because any “common sense” changes to gun laws is met with a screaming chorus of "2A 2A 2A 2A 2A! OMG FUKOFFMYGUNZ!‘’ Since the 2nd Amendment is being used as the armor to defend against any and all changes to gun laws, why should the opposition not try to remove it? ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2018, 8:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-hardened-schools-prevent-mass-shootings/814617/119 "2018-05-23T20:17:03Z")
Also, since legal gun rights stem only from it, not from anywhere else in this or any other country’s constitutions or concepts of civilization or in any other moral code, its defenders are induced to adopt a religious view of it rather than a rational one. That spell needs to be broken, and the only way to do that is to end it. > [@Chisquirrel](#): > > The “Repeal the 2nd” movement is coming about because any “common sense” changes to gun laws is met with a screaming chorus of "2A 2A 2A 2A 2A! OMG FUKOFFMYGUNZ!‘’ Along with threats of mass murder of LEO’s if there were ever to be any such changes - to whatever extent you think those death threats are credible. There’s no room for anything short of that for these guys. And we have them even on the Dope. ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2018, 8:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-hardened-schools-prevent-mass-shootings/814617/120 "2018-05-23T20:20:33Z")
> [@Chisquirrel](#): > > The “Repeal the 2nd” movement is coming about because any “common sense” changes to gun laws is met with a screaming chorus of "2A 2A 2A 2A 2A! OMG FUKOFFMYGUNZ!‘’ Since the 2nd Amendment is being used as the armor to defend against any and all changes to gun laws, why should the opposition not try to remove it? You can try if you want. You have little chance of success - a strong majority of Americans do not want to repeal it. “We can’t do anything until we repeal the 2nd” is pretty close to saying “We can’t do anything”. You can’t repeal the 2nd, and you don’t want to talk about anything besides repealing the 2nd. Regards, Shodan [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-hardened-schools-prevent-mass-shootings/814617.md?page=5) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-hardened-schools-prevent-mass-shootings/814617.md?page=7)