Do "hardened schools" prevent mass shootings?

I’m an avid gun-owner AND strongly in favor of draconian gun control laws. I’ll just add a couple extra comments in response to Dangerosa’s and Dr. Deth’s suggestions…

One of the reasons the 2a die-hards argue against this is because gun registration was used against the general populace in (relatively) recent history. It’s also the reason they invariably sing “If guns are criminalized, only criminals will have guns.”
The example is right next door – southward instead of north. My brother-in-law revealed a bit of Mexican history to me: There was mandatory gun registration and then, at some point, the government used those registries to go around and collect the guns from non-LEO/Non-military people. Then it made private gun ownership illegal for non-LEO/Non-military people.* Now, the only civillians with guns in Mexico are connected to drug cartels.

I let my insurer know I own a gun. My agent told me it didn’t affect my rates, but loss would be covered like any other object in the house and any injury from it (or its projected lead slugs) on the property would be covered like any other accident liability. If the matter wasn’t an accident…well, such matters would be dealt with (if necessary) according to routine insurance procedures, as well. In other words I already have liability coverage in case someone is injured by (bullet(s) from) my gun. It costs me nothing extra.

One of the reasons we’re required to notify police if a gun is stolen/lost is so they can affix a date to that loss. If it turns out your stolen/lost gun is used after that date, you can be considered less-of-a-suspect in the crime. :slight_smile: California also has laws making a minor’s use of a gun reflect on the gun owner. I don’t believe it has actually been invoked, probably since the owner has (usually? always?) been the parent of the subsequently-deceased gun-using child.

I must admit I’ve never looked into the laws outside of California. Here on the (majority of the) left coast, all exchanges or sales of firearms must be handled through a Federally-Licensed Firearms dealer, who records the names and ID’s of the seller and the buyer and charges a fee. One can even call around and find the lowest transaction fee to arrange for transfers to be recorded as cheap as possible.

I remember reading an article in which a gun store owner was complaining that the annual records audit by the ATF took a whole weekend, during which he had to keep his shop closed because he couldn’t [COLOR=navy]do any transfers and wasn’t willing to focus on anything else (lest it take even longer). The article then revealed that the process is such a pain in the ass because the NRA insists that the records-of-transfer cannot be computerized. See #1, above, for their reasons.
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A) Changing the purchasing age will have little effect on the number of guns already in homes. In fact, the kids shooting up schools seem to be using guns owned by their parents and acquired without permission (see #3 above)
B) [COLOR=navy]Even the NRA has thrown its hallowed opinion against bump-stocks. Maybe it will become illegal to sell them but, now that the idea is out there, home-made versions can’t be stopped. [Like modifying S/B/A switches on military replica rifles].
C) Magazine capacity really isn’t much of an issue. Somewhere around here is a thread in which I brag about my ability to speed-swap my magazines without breaking rhythm; it’s not hard to learn/practice and analysts were saying the Columbine kids were doing it twenty years ago.[/COLOR]

Wow!
Umm…rather harshly illuminating review of LEOs, Scumpup. Thank you for the education, even though it kinda squished my ‘hero worship’ of law enforcers. Ignorance fought!

Lastly, “gun lethality” is actually more a matter of the person shooting rather than the gun itself. You might understand that a bigger bullet would inherently kick the gun harder. For most people that would intuitively mean a gun using a smaller bullet# – a .22 or a .25, for instance, would be ‘less deadly.’ For most people, though, a lighter kick means greater accuracy. So is it the heavier bullet capacity or the greater accuracy which is more lethal?# And, for me and probably a lot of other enthusiasts, there’s an irony in that I shoot more accurately with a .45 than with a .40 or .38 handgun so I, in particular, am more lethal with the bigger slug – which confirms the intuition but is counter to what most knowledgable shooters understand about basic handgunning.

—G!
*This law had some news- and entertainment-generating effects on the career of DOG the Bounty Hunter, who was noticed by producers and signed on to a TV show after he went down to Mexico – with guns – to hunt for the famous Max Factor Serial Rapist/Killer and drag him back to U.S. soil.

#And the really knowledgable gun users can take the discussions of .45 vs 9mm and .223 vs .308 vs 7.62mm vs 5.56mm to completely different boards where such things are not beyond the understanding of the majority of participants. Yeah, I’ve read and watched and contemplated and I have my own opinions, but all of that is a major tangent to this particular thread.

Back during the Christopher Dorner manhunt, 8 LAPD cops looking for a black Nissan truck instead shot 103 times at a blue Toyota with 2 women inside. One hundred and three shots at a stationary target. One woman took two of those bullets, the other was harmed by broken glass only and thankfully neither was killed.
Never overestimate the competency of “professionals”.

I don’t know about the whole ‘hardened’ thing but just last week an armed guard did stop a shooter.

So you are actually saying that “A gun store keeps records” is the exact same as “The ATF keeps records”?

That’s what you are going with?

This is America’s 2nd (get it?) civil war. Ima let you use that.

It’s amusing to me how far you will go to say a guy that shot and killed people is not a criminal.

Look at what New York does to completely innocent travelers whose airplane happens to get forced down into NY- they arrest any people traveling totally legally with guns (from other state to another state, not NY) and confiscate the guns.

In DC it’s a crime if you have a *spent *cartridge.

In CA they passed a law that said when it became feasible to have guns which put a signature on fired shells, new guns would have to have that feature. our then AG, Now Senator found that a guy did put out a patent for such a feature and released that patent. Now, it’s still not technically feasible and no gun company offers it, but you now can’t buy any newly designed guns in CA.

So, since the gun grabbers will turn anything they have into the old slippery slope- yes, Indeed, gun owners are wary.

That’s not what they want. They want liability insurance on a gun even if you use it in a crime, or if it is stolen from you and used in a crime. No insurer has such insurance, and a rough pulled from a ass estimate was $200 a year per gun.

In other words, they want it to be too expensive for law abiding gun owners to own firearms, by requiring a insurance that is not available and would do nothing since criminals do not buy their guns legally from gun stores.

It would obviously become available if it were required, or if homeowner’s and renter’s policies did not already cover it. So, straw.

What an outrage it is that law-abiding drivers are required to buy liability insurance! They’re trying to outlaw driving! Please.

Got a cite for that happening?

Or that? And why are you carrying spent cartridges with you anyway?

The Gun store keeps the records FOR the ATF. The records are the property of the ATF.

If a gun is used in a crime, the ATF can find out from the manufacturer which gun store it was shipped to, then require that store to report back on who bought it.

However, since criminals- by and large- don’t buy their guns legally from gun store- it’s usually a useless task.

There are 805 models of gun approved for sale in California. Slippery slope indeed :rolleyes:

Of course he’s a criminal, but he wasn’t a professional criminal. He had no record before the shooting.:rolleyes:

So? Newer safer guns are not approved, and many of those models are no longer manufactured as they are older versions or that company went defunct.

It’s like saying CA allows the sale of any car models made before 2013. Gosh there are thousands of them. Hudsons, Studebakers, Packards, Pontiacs, Saturns…

If the records are the property of the ATF, then why don’t they just collect them when a gun is purchased?

The Las Vegas shooter is a criminal, and he purchased his guns legally from a store.

That’s a big market. If the demand is there, at some point the supply will be, too. Econ 101.

Sorry, you said criminals don’t buy weapons at a gun store. The LV shooter is a criminal, he bought his guns at a gun store.

You are incorrect.

If the point is that a real background check system would prevent some people with convictions on their records from buying guns, well, duh.

So? Safer guns? What, they don’t fire bullets?

You can buy any amount you want from a selection of 809 models of guns. Sorry, this is not my definition of limiting gun rights.

Dont be pedantic. :rolleyes:We were talking about professional criminals and if you are going to be pedantic- the LV shooter wasnt a criminal before he bought his guns, thus indeed- criminals dont buy their guns from gun stores.

They might have a device that prevents any but the owner from firing it.

You can go to any car dealer in CA and buy any car made before 2013. :rolleyes: