Urban1 - I invite you to visit Alabama. And a few portions of New Hampshire, Kentucky, Tennessee & Texas as well. They did, and very much still do exist.
In fact - I think several of my unmet relatives still are hillbillies. Would explain my third nipple maybe, hah.
Wait, Let me define what hillbilly means to me - so that doesn’t come off sounding like slander.
Marrying/Breeding with relatives, Moonshining, Refusing to learn cohesive english, Preferring to use an outhouse/have no electricity, and a yard full of toilet bowls/spare parts/flea market junk/rusted out cars, Spitting tobacco on walls, floors, ceilings and screaming Yeeeeeeehaw!!! when reminiscing about Ma Barker. To note a few things.
I don’t see a hillbilly as a person who lives in, or was raised in the hills - I think it’s moreso a mentality than geographical location.
Except that this is the very thing that has been hashed over in the last dozen or so posts. What you are identifying as “hillbilly” has rather less to do with the actual hilbillies/hill folk/mountain folk and more to do with the stereotypes associated with people called “rednecks” or “trailer trash” or (the implicitly racist) “white trash.”
To the extent the the word hillbilly has any validity, it should be used to identify actual social conditions. Labeling anyone with little money and fewer morals as a “hillbilly” simply reinforces prejudices.
One aspect of the “hillbilly” stereotype that has not really been addressed in this thread is the notion of interbreeding. I can posit that a rather small and isolated community would, after a few generations, have a difficult time finding mates that were utterly unrelated. However, I have never seen genuine statistics on the amount of intra-familial marrying actually occurs. Heck, FDR and Eleanor were cousins (although far enough removed to avoid most censure) and a lot of the European aristocracy was pretty inbred (for political and social rather than geographic limitations).
Are there any genuine studies regarding enogamous marriage or incest among the hill folk? Or do we simply pass that on as one more anecdotal “truth”?
City Gent wrote:
Actually, I do think that there are importantly distinct levels of prejudice involved in these cases. I think that the list of traits we ascribe to the most uncivilized of the mountain boys would be interpreted more charitably if they weren’t white. Say we found a tribe of indians deep in some jungle of South America which were analogous to the hillbillies. They don’t wash, or wear shoes. They marry close kin, being isolated from the larger society. Do we call these people trash? No, we don’t. Yet, hillbillies are trash. Why? My theory is that it’s because there is a buried assumption that as white people, they could do better.
That’s a harsh interpretation, I don’t deny it. But what got me thinking along these lines was the issue of Ebonics. What’s called Ebonics is not merely the codification of broken english. It’s just as consistent and rules-governed as standard english, and those rules are implicitly understood by its speakers. Everyone implicitly understands the rules of the language they speak, whether they can articulate them or not. The idea behind teaching Ebonics as an approach to teaching standardized english is that kids who don’t speak standardized english don’t have an implicit understanding to appeal to when attempting to understand its grammar. So, they teach grammatical concepts through the grammar that the kids already have in their heads, and parlay that into teaching standardized grammar. As suspicious as I’ve grown of pedagolical theories in general, this isn’t the worst one I’ve seen. But…
Plenty of white kids grow up in families that speak rules-based english variants with their own grammars and vocabularies. When the buzz about Ebonics came out, I knew several educated hillbillies who said the descriptions of Ebonics they were reading sounded a lot like the way they grew up speaking themselves. But the white kids are assumed to be smart enough to figure out for themselves how to speak standardized english. That’s the problem I have with Ebonics education – it seems to carry an implicit assumption that black kids are dumber than whites.
Bringing this back around to your point, I think that this draws attention to a disanalogy between the kind of hick-bashing you’re concerned about and the same discussion with the word `nigger’ substituted. The prejudice is of a very different character, because white folks are assumed to be capable of doing better.
I don’t have any direct experience in this area, having no Itallian family or friends. I do think it’s interesting though that while there was a strong Jewish contingent in organized crime, that stigma never stuck to them even as much as it did to the Irish.
The PC Trash have arrived.
Ghod help us. 
Look, you goofs–when people are a discriminated minority, it is because the greater mass of people in a given society are prejudiced against them due to a factor they have no control over–color of skin, etc. Or, because of religion (unfair, irrational to boot).
However, if a person is ridiculed because of their behavior, which they can control it is not prejudice, it is a social sanction & permissable.
The county I live in is full of ex-hillbillies. Ex-hillbillies, who got more productive jobs & educations . They were offered the chance to do this, accepted it, & changed their lives & much for the better thank you.
Your clownish tirades & smug, self-congradulatory, smirking displays just how out of touch you are.
There are no barriers to Hillbillies, or Irish Travellers (who look, I assume, just like everybody else in Ireland) to changing their lives. They choose to change or not. Society does not approve of those who do not change.
If you shaved apes wanna change the world & fight injustice, then oppose police violence based on race; & don’t forget to vote–for an Independent or alt. candidate, if possible.
But don’t defend laziness, or immorality, or criminal conduct by calling others bigots. You end up sounding like utter gits, & that blows the chances of people who are trying to make a real difference with the real problems.
Note to mods—had to make the point of my argument, straight. Hope it wasn’t too crude for this forum. If it was I apologise to the mods. As for the rest, I stick to my guns.
Here’s my take on when it’s “okay” to ridicule segments of society:
Never, really. But it’s just more acceptable to trash your own kind than others. Like how we ridicule our families but get enraged if someone else does. Or how Jewish comedians can tell Jew jokes with impunity. I’m not a hillbilly or a redneck per se, but I am a white Tennessee boy who relates to some of their attributes. I make fun of them with love. Likewise, I will readily dis alcoholics and drug addicts. To hell with PCness, I belong to those categories, and I have the right to make fun of myself.
Peace,
TN*hippie
“Contrariwise,” continued Tweedledee, “if it was so, it might be; and if it were so, it would be: but as it isn’t, it ain’t. That’s logic.”
Irish Travellers who become “settled” still face discrimination here. They are treated with the same contempt that many other ethnic/cultural groups are. It’s a question of their heritage as much as their lifestyle.
Yep. Got a buddy named Dan. He talks funny, has a 7th grade education, bathes once a week, missing teeth, used to cook crank & grow weed. I’ve seen him wear overalls with no shirt or shoes out of the house. This S.O.B. works his ass off for low wages to support his 7 children. He is a gem. I truly love that man.
I live in Utah and Dan comes from “pioneer” (polygamist) stock. You find underage cousin-marrying in those communities. I know that isn’t what the O.P. had in mind, but they do share a lot of characteristics with hillbillies: rural location, suspicious of outsiders, looked down on by the majority. Those who escape the religious zealotry get into drug addiction big time.
And I’m not getting into the P.C. hijack.
Prove it.
How could somebody tell that someone had lived the Traveller lifestyle, if that person did not him/herself tell others about it? What means could somebody use to detect this?
Sounds like “hot air” to me.
Bosda Di’Chi of Tricor:
While I agree with you that we shouldn’t be overly sensitive about hillbilly stereotypes, there is no question that the stereotypes are harmful. I don’t know how much you’ve travelled outside Tennessee, but try using a mountain accent around someone from up North who has never been around Southerners. They will make certain assumptions about you. They will talk to you using small words-- you know, so that someone of your limited learning can understand.
We had a discussion in another thread about the stereotypes in Bugs Bunny cartoons. The cartoons stereeotyping blacks and Indians have been banned, but the hillbilly cartoons are still around. I happened to catch one of them the other day. Bugs Bunny visits the Ozarks, where he encounters “B.O. Buzzard” and his son. For the entire cartoon, “B.O.” never leaves his bed, but just drawls instructions to his son. “B.O.” is surrounded by a haze of flies. Bugs tricks the son by having him count to four, which is of course beyond his meager capabilities.
Message: Hillbillies are lazy, stupid and have poor hygiene.
Now you may say, “What’s the harm?” but if those stereotypes are the only exposure a person has to “hillbillies,” then when such a person encounters someone in real life with a mountain accent, it’s not surprising that they make certain wrong assumtions about them. And if they make such assumptions, then it wouldn’t be too surprising for someone to, say, get turned down for a job because of their accent. Why do you think accent-reduction classes do such a thriving business?
Now I’m with you on one thing. I don’t think we need a PC jihad to combat this problem. But then we shouldn’t pretend that it isn’t a problem, either.
I’ve been happy to see, in the past decade or so, a lot more positive images of Southerners coming out of Hollywood. Most recently, the two central characters in Pearl Harbor are a couple of country boys from Tennessee. That’s the best way to fight the stereotypes. Balance them with positive images.
I did not mean to say that we should start applying the same rules of political correctness to poor whites, just to illustrate that a double standard exists. I did state that we are overly sensitive about slurs on some groups and too accepting of slurs on other groups. Here’s a quote from one of the previous posts:
This is all based on something he heard from a friend. How many times have you heard prejudiced whites use the exact same “logic”? We don’t accept this kind of anecdotal hatchet job when blacks are the object, so why do we accept it when hillbillies are the object? I don’t think it’s “hypersensitive” to object to this kind of crap.
I don’t think I implied anything about sending out the thought police, or foisting a notion of correctness on an unwilling population. I simply demonstrated that a double standard exists, and nobody is arguing with that. I never proposed any remedy for it, and certainly would not advocate limits on free expression. The best path seems to be somewhere in between.
Bosda di’Chi of Trichor:
I don’t think it’s necessary to address your odious claim that it is all right to ridicule people for their behavior. I think that speaks volumes about your moral stance.
This a perfect example of the perpetual gullibility of some people to accept the American myth of equal opportunity. I suppose a kid who grows up in a trailer roped to the side of a hill, with no running water, electricity, or medical care has only himself to blame when he ends up on welfare at 25. I notice you used the contruction “They were offered the chance…” I daresay that nobody is offering most of these people anything.
I’ll leave it to the reader to decide who is out of touch here.
What a pleasure it must be to live in the fantasy world you have evidently constructed around yourself. Physical appearance is only one piece of the puzzle (for reasons I need not go into, because I assume I’m not speaking to a bunch of third graders), and if you don’t understand that, you’ve been brainwashed by the faction in America that sees everything through the lens of race. If that’s not mindless political correctness, I don’t know what is.
I’d like to know which of these “independent” or “alt.” candidates you speak of would oppose government help in solving the problems of Appalachia.
I seriously doubt there are any statistics kept on the subject. However, reading the Irish papers one comes across with some regularity reports of discrimination against even settled Travellers. I’ve yet to hear this disputed by anyone who actually lives in this country.
I can think of a number of ways. Questions about where you went to school, or what your family did. Your surname, possibly. Ireland is a small country - it’s not necessarily as easy to hide here.
Besides, one could make the same point about non-practising Jews, let’s say, or celibate gays. Does that demonstrate that they don’t in fact face any discrimination? That to be treated as equals, all they need to do is “change their lifestyle”?
I’d like to know the factual basis of your opinion, too, thanks.
Upon further review, that came out sounding kind of silly. It is perfectly all right to ridicule people for certain behaviors, such as uninformed blabbery. It’s not all right to ridicule people for behaviors that seem out of place in modern society but really aren’t hurting anyone. The appropriateness of ridicule depends on the behavior that is being ridiculed, whereas prejudice is always wrong.
I don’t have a dog in this fight, but I reckon it’s purt near time fer you’uns to hightail it to Great Debates.
Peace,
TN*hippiebilly
Comments have been made about my “morality”.
Who decided my “morality” was damaged?
You?
Don’t make me laugh.
People are responsible for their own individual behavior, except where illness applies. This is the basis of all Western law & morality. Your prattling flies in the face of this. And brainwashing? No. I think for myself.
You PC clones seem to be the ones to think & march in lockstep.