# Do hockey jersey numbers have anything to do with a players position, prestige or abilities? **URL:** \ **Category:** The Game Room\ **Created:** [November 23, 2009, 6:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-hockey-jersey-numbers-have-anything-to-do-with-a-players-position-prestige-or-abilities/518612 "2009-11-23T06:05:55Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![St.Anger](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/5daacb/32.png) [@St.Anger](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/St.Anger)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2009, 6:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-hockey-jersey-numbers-have-anything-to-do-with-a-players-position-prestige-or-abilities/518612/1 "2009-11-23T06:05:55Z")
The reason I bring this up is because I have noticed a lot of prestigious players seem to get “double numbers” ie: 99 for Wayne Gretzky 88- Eric Lindros 77- Ray Bourque (to be fair, he went from 7 to 77 so Phil Esposito could retire his jersey) 66- Mario Lemieux 55- Alexandr Ovechkin Or even high numbers, ala Sid Crosby who wears a #87. The only thing I have been able to pick up is that in the minors, they only print up jersey numbers 1-31, and the defensemen have to pick single digit numbers, which is why so many of them end up with single digit numbers in the NHL. The goalies usually get 0 or 1, or can pick over 31. This would make sense, as the great Bobby Orr wore a 4. But on the other side of the coin, why then would Gordie Howe be a #9?? When watching a hockey game, is there anything I can pick up off a players jersey number? Maybe Gordie Howe and Bobby Orr were really defensemen who just happened to score goals??? ---
**Author:** ![drm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a88e57/32.png) [@drm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/drm)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2009, 6:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-hockey-jersey-numbers-have-anything-to-do-with-a-players-position-prestige-or-abilities/518612/2 "2009-11-23T06:11:54Z")
Nitpick: I believe OV is number 8. Generally, no, numbers are not determined by position however, -Goalies are usually number 1 or a number in the high 20’s to early 30’s -Defencemen tend to take up numbers 2-4 but after four it’s a bit of a crapshoot. ---
**Author:** ![stolichnaya](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/bcef8e/32.png) [@stolichnaya](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/stolichnaya)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2009, 6:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-hockey-jersey-numbers-have-anything-to-do-with-a-players-position-prestige-or-abilities/518612/3 "2009-11-23T06:20:23Z")
No real cite for this, but I think the double number thing all goes back to Gretzky- who apparently chose the number based on Gordie Howe’s 9. I think Lindros has said that his 88 was a reference to Gretzky, and the story is that Lemieux’s 66 is an inverted tribute to the Great One. You’ve mentioned the story about Borque and Esposito. Aside from the fact that there is generally more wiggle room at the top of the number list, and 99 is effectively retired league-wide adding to the double-number “prestige”, I don’t think there is a particular objective significance to the double numbers. ---
**Author:** ![HongKongFooey](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/c4cdca/32.png) [@HongKongFooey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HongKongFooey)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2009, 6:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-hockey-jersey-numbers-have-anything-to-do-with-a-players-position-prestige-or-abilities/518612/4 "2009-11-23T06:27:20Z")
> [@St.Anger](#): > > Or even high numbers, ala Sid Crosby who wears a #87. His birthday is August 7, 1987 - 8/7/87 > [@St.Anger](#): > > The goalies usually get 0 or 1, or can pick over 31. “0” is no longer allowed on NHL jerseys. I can’t remember the last guy I saw wearing it. “99” has also been retired throughout the league I think. ---
**Author:** ![Wash](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/9dc877/32.png) [@Wash](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wash)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2009, 2:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-hockey-jersey-numbers-have-anything-to-do-with-a-players-position-prestige-or-abilities/518612/5 "2009-11-23T14:02:34Z")
> [@St.Anger](#): > > The only thing I have been able to pick up is that in the minors, they only print up jersey numbers 1-31, and the defensemen have to pick single digit numbers, which is why so many of them end up with single digit numbers in the NHL. The goalies usually get 0 or 1, or can pick over 31. This would make sense, as the great Bobby Orr wore a 4. While that may be the case for your local minor league teams, my local expansion CHL team (Allen Americans) have several players with numbers in the 40’s and one with #91. ---
**Author:** ![KennerTheGreat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/a8b319/32.png) [@KennerTheGreat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/KennerTheGreat)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2009, 8:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-hockey-jersey-numbers-have-anything-to-do-with-a-players-position-prestige-or-abilities/518612/6 "2009-11-23T20:40:13Z")
> [@stolichnaya](#): > > No real cite for this, but I think the double number thing all goes back to Gretzky- who apparently chose the number based on Gordie Howe’s 9. I think Lindros has said that his 88 was a reference to Gretzky, and the story is that Lemieux’s 66 is an inverted tribute to the Great One. You’ve mentioned the story about Borque and Esposito. > > Aside from the fact that there is generally more wiggle room at the top of the number list, and 99 is effectively retired league-wide adding to the double-number “prestige”, I don’t think there is a particular objective significance to the double numbers. Gretzky wore number 9 for the most part playing minor hockey, as a tribute to Gordie Howe. When he got to the Soo Greyhounds in 1977, he couldn’t wear 9 because another player, Brian Gualazzi was already wearing it. He wore 19 for a while, and then 14. During this season, Phil Esposito and Ken Hodge had been traded to the New York Rangers from Boston. They couldn’t wear 7 and 8 respectively, because they were already in use, so they took 77 and 88. So Muzz MacPherson, the Greyhounds coach at the time suggested to Gretzky that he take 99. He did and got three goals in the first game he wore it. When Gretzky got to the Oilers when they were still in the WHA, Bill Goldsworthy, who was wearing 9, offered to give the number to Gretzky, as he knew how much Gretzky idolized Howe. But Gretzky was by this time comfortable wearing 99, so he turned down the offer. ---
**Author:** ![KennerTheGreat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/a8b319/32.png) [@KennerTheGreat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/KennerTheGreat)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2009, 8:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-hockey-jersey-numbers-have-anything-to-do-with-a-players-position-prestige-or-abilities/518612/7 "2009-11-23T20:48:11Z")
Couple other notes: Maurice Richard took number 9 in his second full year in the NHL–I believe he wore 15 first-- because his wife had given birth to a baby girl who weighed nine pounds. Gordie Howe wore 17 in his first year, and then was offered number 9 after the player who was wearing it got traded. He accepted because wearing a lower number entitled him to a lower Pullman berth. Bobby Hull took 9 as a tribute to Howe. Jaromir Jagr wore 68 for the year of the Prague Spring, Alexander Mogilny wore 89 for the year he defected from the Soviet Union. Ed Belfour and Evgeni Nabokov wear/wore 20, an unusual number for a goalie, in honor of their mentor, Vladislav Tretiak. ---
**Author:** ![stolichnaya](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/bcef8e/32.png) [@stolichnaya](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/stolichnaya)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2009, 9:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-hockey-jersey-numbers-have-anything-to-do-with-a-players-position-prestige-or-abilities/518612/8 "2009-11-23T21:42:50Z")
The cavalry has arrived! Awesome. ---
**Author:** ![Manduck](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/manduck/32/256_2.png) [@Manduck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Manduck)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2009, 11:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-hockey-jersey-numbers-have-anything-to-do-with-a-players-position-prestige-or-abilities/518612/9 "2009-11-23T23:31:33Z")
When Esposito took 77 it was weird to see a player wearing such a high number. Before that, the two goalies on a team would wear #1 and a number in the high twenties, like #28 or #29. Tony Esposito was unusual in that he wore #31. Defensemen wore numbers 2-6 (I think) and the other numbers could be anybody. Only one player in the league had a number higher than 30. ---
**Author:** ![tr0psn4j](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/958977/32.png) [@tr0psn4j](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tr0psn4j)\ **Post date:** [November 24, 2009, 3:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-hockey-jersey-numbers-have-anything-to-do-with-a-players-position-prestige-or-abilities/518612/10 "2009-11-24T03:15:10Z")
Mike Donnelly was #11, Ian LaPerriere was #22, Zigmund Palffy was 33, Paul Coffey was 77 and, of course, Wayne Gretzky was #99. They all played for the L.A. Kings at one point or another. ---
**Author:** ![zbuzz](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/e19b73/32.png) [@zbuzz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/zbuzz)\ **Post date:** [November 24, 2009, 6:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-hockey-jersey-numbers-have-anything-to-do-with-a-players-position-prestige-or-abilities/518612/11 "2009-11-24T06:47:14Z")
> [@St.Anger](#): > > 55- Alexandr Ovechkin Congratulations on being the only person with at least an iota of hockey knowledge to confuse Alex Ovechkin with Jeff Schultz. ---
**Author:** ![Bijou\_Drains](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bijou_drains/32/2814_2.png) [@Bijou\_Drains](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bijou_Drains)\ **Post date:** [November 24, 2009, 7:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-hockey-jersey-numbers-have-anything-to-do-with-a-players-position-prestige-or-abilities/518612/12 "2009-11-24T19:27:10Z")
Paul Coffey wore 7 in Edmonton and 77 after he left there. For some reason during his last season in Boston he wore 74 - he only played part of that year and then retired. ---
**Author:** ![tr0psn4j](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/958977/32.png) [@tr0psn4j](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tr0psn4j)\ **Post date:** [November 24, 2009, 10:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-hockey-jersey-numbers-have-anything-to-do-with-a-players-position-prestige-or-abilities/518612/13 "2009-11-24T22:22:45Z")
> [@Bijou\_Drains](#): > > Paul Coffey wore 7 in Edmonton and 77 after he left there. For some reason during his last season in Boston he wore 74 - he only played part of that year and then retired. Well Bourque had 77. Coffey, I’m assuming, didn’t want to steal his number. ---
**Author:** ![crypto](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/b3f665/32.png) [@crypto](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/crypto)\ **Post date:** [November 24, 2009, 10:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-hockey-jersey-numbers-have-anything-to-do-with-a-players-position-prestige-or-abilities/518612/14 "2009-11-24T22:47:27Z")
Hockey numbers. A favorite subject! Much has been answered. The past has driven much of this, where numbers were not permitted above 31. This followed form for many years in the NHL, with some rare exceptions. The most famous and recognizable is Gretzky’s 99, which has been covered. Lemieux’s 66 was not only 99 inverted, but the highest number (besides Espo’s & Borque’s 77), and that gave him instant ice visibility. No one, to my knowledge, has worn 66 since Lemieux, and they should retire that number along with 99 throughout the league. Lindros picked 88 in large part because of that same “see-me” factor, as well as the fact that he was supposed to be the next Lemieux (it didn’t work out that way, but he was a total hockey player - he’d bang you, and I loved watching him… but concussions took him out). The protocol now seems to be: 1- Goalie. I’ve never seen a line player wear it, or a defenseman, and if I was the next Gretzky or Lemieux, this would be my number. 2-6 - Defensemen - Again, I can’t think of anyone other than defensemen that have worn this number. 7-28- Forwards 29-35 - Goalies 36 above - anyone takes it. Of course, 7 and above can be worn by anyone, and I’m sure there are exceptions to the rule. But I think my table grabs the general idea for today’s game. I think the Senators a while back ordered that no number above 31 be given to any player, because so many strange numbers were popping up. 91, 67, 45, ect. I guess it made the owner’s head explode. I don’t think that’s the policy anymore. Perhaps another hockey buff can fill us in on more. Part of me thinks hockey would be well served by going back to the old standard, to help fans that are new to the game understand who is who on the ice. But as a practical matter, it doesn’t matter one bit, since each player can skate end-to-end with the puck, shoot, score, play defense, and do anything else to play the game. The exception of course, is the goalie, but he’s the guy with all of those pads and that cool mask, so he really doesn’t need a number at all, except to sell jerseys. ---
**Author:** ![crypto](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/b3f665/32.png) [@crypto](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/crypto)\ **Post date:** [November 24, 2009, 10:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-hockey-jersey-numbers-have-anything-to-do-with-a-players-position-prestige-or-abilities/518612/15 "2009-11-24T22:48:30Z")
> [@zbuzz](#): > > Congratulations on being the only person with at least an iota of hockey knowledge to confuse Alex Ovechkin with Jeff Schultz. Yeah, that was a big wiff! ---
**Author:** ![KennerTheGreat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/a8b319/32.png) [@KennerTheGreat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/KennerTheGreat)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2009, 1:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-hockey-jersey-numbers-have-anything-to-do-with-a-players-position-prestige-or-abilities/518612/16 "2009-11-25T01:45:57Z")
There were some exceptions to the “defense wears lower numbers than the forwards.” Jean Beliveau, the greatest Montreal centreman of all time, wore number 4. Back in the days when train travel was the norm, wearing low numbers entitled you to better berths on the team train. Gordie Howe switched from 17 to 9 when it was offered to him for this reason. > [@Stink Fish Pot](#): > > I think the Senators a while back ordered that no number above 31 be given to any player, because so many strange numbers were popping up. 91, 67, 45, ect. I guess it made the owner’s head explode. I don’t think that’s the policy anymore. Perhaps another hockey buff can fill us in on more. The Senators did indeed decree that “vanity” numbers were prohibited during the 1997-98 season. Although it was ordered by Jacques Martin, the head coach, IIRC; not the ownership. Alexandre Daigle had to switch from 91 to 9 (before he was traded). Radek Bonk switched from 76 to 14. Can’t remember who else was affected. I’m not sure how long this team policy was in effect; it’s since been lifted, judging by the numbers of players on the team now. Regarding Paul Coffey’s #74 with Boston, he didn’t wear 77 because that was Bourque’s number and it would soon be retired when he did. (Bourque was with Colorado the year Coffey was with Boston.) He chose 74 because he wore 7 with Edmonton (his salad days) and he won 4 Stanley Cups in his career. ---
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2009, 3:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-hockey-jersey-numbers-have-anything-to-do-with-a-players-position-prestige-or-abilities/518612/17 "2009-11-25T03:23:33Z")
> [@Stink Fish Pot](#): > > 2-6 - Defensemen - Again, I can’t think of anyone other than defensemen that have worn this number. Jean Beliveau jumps to mind. ---
**Author:** ![mnemosyne](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/c4cdca/32.png) [@mnemosyne](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mnemosyne)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2009, 4:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-hockey-jersey-numbers-have-anything-to-do-with-a-players-position-prestige-or-abilities/518612/18 "2009-11-25T04:02:57Z")
> [@HongKongFooey](#): > > “0” is no longer allowed on NHL jerseys. I can’t remember the last guy I saw wearing it. “99” has also been retired throughout the league I think. [Marty Biron](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Martin_Biron). The rule change is unofficially named after him, since he was the only NHL player affected by it (he wore 00 actually). He wears number 43 now. ---
**Author:** ![Spoons](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spoons/32/3141_2.png) [@Spoons](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spoons)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2009, 2:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-hockey-jersey-numbers-have-anything-to-do-with-a-players-position-prestige-or-abilities/518612/19 "2009-11-25T14:35:42Z")
> [@KennerTheGreat](#): > > There were some exceptions to the “defense wears lower numbers than the forwards.” Jean Beliveau, the greatest Montreal centreman of all time, wore number 4. Another example of an exception: Bobby Baun, who played defense for the Maple Leafs, wore number 21. ---
**Author:** ![mnemosyne](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/c4cdca/32.png) [@mnemosyne](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mnemosyne)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2009, 6:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-hockey-jersey-numbers-have-anything-to-do-with-a-players-position-prestige-or-abilities/518612/20 "2009-11-25T18:23:04Z")
Defensemen not wearing lower numbers is more common than forwards wearing them. For example, the semi-current Habs lineup has mostly upper numbers for their defensemen - only Ryan O’Byrne (3) and Jaroslav Spacek (6) fit the generalization. Marc-André Bergeron - 47 Hal Gill - 75 Josh Gorges - 26 Roman Hamrlik - 44 Jay Leach - 20 Paul Mara - 22 Andrei Markov - 79 There are no current forwards playing with low numbers. The lowest is 13 worn by Mike Cammalleri. Halak bucks the goalie trend a little too, wearing number 41. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-hockey-jersey-numbers-have-anything-to-do-with-a-players-position-prestige-or-abilities/518612.md?page=2)