# Do humans, as observers, occupy a special place when observing Earth? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [June 10, 2022, 10:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-humans-as-observers-occupy-a-special-place-when-observing-earth/966007 "2022-06-10T22:29:13Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![EastUmpqua](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eastumpqua/32/6025_2.png) [@EastUmpqua](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EastUmpqua)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2022, 10:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-humans-as-observers-occupy-a-special-place-when-observing-earth/966007/1 "2022-06-10T22:29:14Z")
The [Copernican Principle](https://phys.org/news/2008-05-copernican-principle.html#:~:text=The%20Copernican%20principle%20states%20that,concept%20in%20many%20astronomical%20theories.) states that Earth doesn’t occupy a special place when observing the Universe. So does it apply to humans as well? Do humans occupy a special place when observing the Earth? ---
**Author:** ![beowulff](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/beowulff/32/542_2.png) [@beowulff](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/beowulff)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2022, 10:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-humans-as-observers-occupy-a-special-place-when-observing-earth/966007/2 "2022-06-10T22:37:05Z")
Well, we’re taller than dogs. ---
**Author:** ![Riemann](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/riemann/32/3133_2.png) [@Riemann](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Riemann)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2022, 10:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-humans-as-observers-occupy-a-special-place-when-observing-earth/966007/3 "2022-06-10T22:59:22Z")
I don’t really get the idea, and I’m not finding the parallel with the Copernican principle helpful. Can you explain what you mean by “observing the Earth”? A special place in what sense - as a species among all Earth species? ( Also - what about one dog standing on another dog’s shoulders, wearing a trenchcoat? ) ---
**Author:** ![wolfpup](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wolfpup/32/10618_2.png) [@wolfpup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wolfpup)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2022, 11:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-humans-as-observers-occupy-a-special-place-when-observing-earth/966007/4 "2022-06-10T23:04:24Z")
I don’t see the relevance of the Copernican principle here at all. That said, it’s clear that human perceptions and mental perspectives are different than those of other species, all of which are different and some of which are unique and remarkable: > **[The Strange and Secret Ways That Animals Perceive the World](https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2022/06/13/the-strange-and-secret-ways-that-animals-perceive-the-world-ed-yong-immense-world-tom-mustill-how-to-speak-whale)** > > Nonhuman creatures have senses that we’re just beginning to fathom. What would they tell us if we could only understand them? ---
**Author:** ![EastUmpqua](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eastumpqua/32/6025_2.png) [@EastUmpqua](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EastUmpqua)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2022, 11:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-humans-as-observers-occupy-a-special-place-when-observing-earth/966007/5 "2022-06-10T23:30:01Z")
> [@wolfpup](#): > > I don’t see the relevance of the Copernican principle here at all. When we point our machines out towards the Universe, the Copernican Principle says “Earth doesn’t occupy a special place”. Wouldn’t that still be the case if we point our machines inward towards the Earth? Quote from the article “If we see ourselves in the mirror, it is because ours is a privileged location. If we see nothing [i.e. no peculiar distortions] in the mirror, then the Copernican principle is upheld.” ---
**Author:** ![Riemann](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/riemann/32/3133_2.png) [@Riemann](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Riemann)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2022, 11:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-humans-as-observers-occupy-a-special-place-when-observing-earth/966007/6 "2022-06-10T23:37:11Z")
> [@EastUmpqua](#): > > When we point our machines out towards the Universe, the Copernican Principle says “Earth doesn’t occupy a special place”. Wouldn’t that still be the case if we point our machines inward towards the Earth? The Copernican principle means that the Earth is not in a special location in the universe. We are not at a special center of the universe, the laws of physics are no different here than anywhere else. But the Earth is obviously special _to us_, as our home. I still have no idea what you are getting at. Can you forget about the Copernican principle and explain what _you_ mean? ---
**Author:** ![EastUmpqua](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eastumpqua/32/6025_2.png) [@EastUmpqua](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EastUmpqua)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2022, 11:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-humans-as-observers-occupy-a-special-place-when-observing-earth/966007/7 "2022-06-10T23:48:09Z")
> [@Riemann](#): > > The Copernican principle means that the Earth is not in a special location in the universe. I’m suggesting that humans are not in a special location (in time) to observe Earth’s history. When we look back in time, if we see ourselves in the mirror, it is because ours is a privileged location. We tend to think that humans are the apex of evolution on Earth, but it seems like we are looking for ourselves in the mirror. This is just a thought. I hope that explains what I meant. ---
**Author:** ![Lucas\_Jackson](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lucas_jackson/32/303_2.png) [@Lucas\_Jackson](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lucas_Jackson)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2022, 11:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-humans-as-observers-occupy-a-special-place-when-observing-earth/966007/8 "2022-06-10T23:51:04Z")
All depends on your frame of reference. I’m human, so I think humans are special. Were are the the most intelligent beings on earth - that’s special. But all sentient earth creatures deserve the same consideration, IMHO. In that regard we are not special. ---
**Author:** ![wolfpup](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wolfpup/32/10618_2.png) [@wolfpup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wolfpup)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2022, 11:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-humans-as-observers-occupy-a-special-place-when-observing-earth/966007/9 "2022-06-10T23:55:39Z")
> [@Lucas\_Jackson](#): > > Were are the the most intelligent beings on earth - that’s special. Yes, it is. But it doesn’t mean that our perceptions of the world, with our everyday physical senses, is necessarily the best or most accurate. Many animals have far more finely honed senses than we do, and we’re always discovering amazing new aspects of these capabilities. ---
**Author:** ![Lucas\_Jackson](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lucas_jackson/32/303_2.png) [@Lucas\_Jackson](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lucas_Jackson)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2022, 11:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-humans-as-observers-occupy-a-special-place-when-observing-earth/966007/10 "2022-06-10T23:56:33Z")
> [@EastUmpqua](#): > > We tend to think that humans are the apex of evolution on Earth… From certain vantage points we are (in so much as evolution does not have a goal). We are so far the only life form on earth to have altered our world in any meaningful way. ---
**Author:** ![Riemann](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/riemann/32/3133_2.png) [@Riemann](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Riemann)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2022, 11:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-humans-as-observers-occupy-a-special-place-when-observing-earth/966007/11 "2022-06-10T23:59:35Z")
> [@EastUmpqua](#): > > I’m suggesting that humans are not in a special location (in time) to observe Earth’s history. There is no parallel with the Copernican principle here. The Earth has _not_ been similar in all historical eras, with or without humans. > [@EastUmpqua](#): > > We tend to think that humans are the apex of evolution on Earth One could challenge a conceptual framework in which evolution has an apex. But we are certainly special as the most intelligent species and the first technological civilization to emerge on the planet. But I’m just stating the obvious. I’m still not really sure what your point is. ---
**Author:** ![Lucas\_Jackson](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lucas_jackson/32/303_2.png) [@Lucas\_Jackson](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lucas_Jackson)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2022, 11:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-humans-as-observers-occupy-a-special-place-when-observing-earth/966007/12 "2022-06-10T23:59:42Z")
> [@wolfpup](#): > > Yes, it is. But it doesn’t mean that our perceptions of the world, with our everyday physical senses, is necessarily the best or most accurate. Many animals have far more finely honed senses than we do, and we’re always discovering amazing new aspects of these capabilities. Them being special in other ways doesn’t negate that I think our form of intelligence is special. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [June 11, 2022, 12:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-humans-as-observers-occupy-a-special-place-when-observing-earth/966007/13 "2022-06-11T00:01:52Z")
There is one notable exception to the Copernican Principle, namely the Anthropic Principle. Our vantage point from which we observe the Universe is special, to exactly the extent that it’s a vantage point from which it’s possible to observe the Universe. For instance, the average density of the Universe is about 10^-29 grams per cubic centimeter, and the vast majority of the Universe is very, very close to that density… but around here, the average density is more like 1 g/cm^3. Isn’t that weird? Well, no, because even though dense spots are rare, it’s not a coincidence that we’re observing from one of them: We could only have evolved in a high-density location. You can go a lot further with the Anthropic Principle, and you pretty quickly end up in woo territory if you do. But as an exception to the Copernican Principle, it’s quite well-grounded. ---
**Author:** ![EastUmpqua](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eastumpqua/32/6025_2.png) [@EastUmpqua](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EastUmpqua)\ **Post date:** [June 11, 2022, 12:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-humans-as-observers-occupy-a-special-place-when-observing-earth/966007/14 "2022-06-11T00:23:05Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > Our vantage point from which we observe the Universe is special, to exactly the extent that it’s a vantage point from which it’s possible to observe the Universe I’ve been following and commenting on a couple of threads on SD about the possibility of humans not being the first “technological” species to evolve on Earth. This is an interesting perspective - if our world wasn’t conductive to life, we wouldn’t be asking if we are the first “technological” species. Nor should we exclude the possibility that we are not. ---
**Author:** ![Richard\_Pearse](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/richard_pearse/32/13144_2.png) [@Richard\_Pearse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Richard_Pearse)\ **Post date:** [June 11, 2022, 1:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-humans-as-observers-occupy-a-special-place-when-observing-earth/966007/15 "2022-06-11T01:26:28Z")
I have an intense distrust of the Anthropic Principle. I think you’re using it just fine here, but it gets very murky when people start trying to answer “why” questions with it such as “Why is the universe the way it is?” ---
**Author:** ![Exapno\_Mapcase](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/exapno_mapcase/32/1051_2.png) [@Exapno\_Mapcase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Exapno_Mapcase)\ **Post date:** [June 11, 2022, 2:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-humans-as-observers-occupy-a-special-place-when-observing-earth/966007/16 "2022-06-11T02:42:58Z")
Are you asking the question or is some random average intelligence in a huge universe somehow manipulating our screens using your username? If the answer is you, then your question answers itself. ---
**Author:** ![Gatopescado](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gatopescado/32/5711_2.png) [@Gatopescado](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gatopescado)\ **Post date:** [June 11, 2022, 3:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-humans-as-observers-occupy-a-special-place-when-observing-earth/966007/17 "2022-06-11T03:53:34Z")
Well, I’m drunk, and not too smart, but I’ll say “Yes”. Go look at that Carl Sagen thing about the Blue Marble or whatever. I’m pretty sure nobody else has ‘observed’ our planet like Humans have. ---
**Author:** ![AHunter3](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ahunter3/32/368_2.png) [@AHunter3](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AHunter3)\ **Post date:** [June 11, 2022, 5:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-humans-as-observers-occupy-a-special-place-when-observing-earth/966007/18 "2022-06-11T05:15:21Z")
I think you’d appreciate Kurt Vonnegut’s book _Galapagos_ ETA: I suppose I should elaborate on that, shouldn’t I? It posits that humans aren’t the apex of anything, we’re just one successful species occupying a niche. And when we’re brought to an end by events we’re not equipped to adapt to, the dominant species on the planet has none of our touted superior characteristics. ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [June 11, 2022, 9:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-humans-as-observers-occupy-a-special-place-when-observing-earth/966007/19 "2022-06-11T09:26:24Z")
> [@EastUmpqua](#): > > Do humans occupy a special place when observing the Earth? We’re the only species to have developed tools to extend our observation capabilities beyond our natural senses. Way, _way_ beyond. So yes, we’re special. > [@EastUmpqua](#): > > I’m suggesting that humans are not in a special location (in time) to observe Earth’s history. But we are, we’re in the present, moving forward. We can look back and see more than any predecessor observers. That’s uniquely privileged - but we do share it with … every other current observer. But, like I said, we’re the only species with tools to do more than _just_ look/taste/touch/etc. So, still special. ---
**Author:** ![msmith537](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/d9b06d/32.png) [@msmith537](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/msmith537)\ **Post date:** [June 11, 2022, 10:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-humans-as-observers-occupy-a-special-place-when-observing-earth/966007/20 "2022-06-11T10:52:08Z")
> [@AHunter3](#): > > Kurt Vonnegut’s book _Galapagos_ > [@AHunter3](#): > > I think you’d appreciate Kurt Vonnegut’s book _Galapagos_ > > ETA: I suppose I should elaborate on that, shouldn’t I? It posits that humans aren’t the apex of anything, we’re just one successful species occupying a niche. And when we’re brought to an end by events we’re not equipped to adapt to, the dominant species on the planet has none of our touted superior characteristics. I would actually disagree with this premise. The “special place” humans occupy is that we are the only species that can adapt our environment to suit us. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-humans-as-observers-occupy-a-special-place-when-observing-earth/966007.md?page=2)