# Do I have a legal right to defend myself from unwanted touching? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [June 9, 2004, 6:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-i-have-a-legal-right-to-defend-myself-from-unwanted-touching/249421 "2004-06-09T06:47:36Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 19\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Nametag](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/nametag/32/406_2.png) [@Nametag](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nametag)\ **Post date:** [June 9, 2004, 5:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-i-have-a-legal-right-to-defend-myself-from-unwanted-touching/249421/21 "2004-06-09T17:44:49Z")
OK, I take back the legal advice; go ahead and hit her. If they’ve already OFFERED to 86 her and you declined because you want the personal satisfaction of physical retaliation, then you deserve whatever happens to you. If I’d known that all you were asking was “How can I get away with it?” I wouldn’t have answered. ---
**Author:** ![Loach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/loach/32/350_2.png) [@Loach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Loach)\ **Post date:** [June 9, 2004, 7:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-i-have-a-legal-right-to-defend-myself-from-unwanted-touching/249421/22 "2004-06-09T19:40:26Z")
Take it from me battery will not stick at least not around any courts in New Jersey. As always the laws might be different in your area. If it ever got to court the judge wouldn’t spend 10 seconds on it before throwing the whole thing out. It seems to me that you got yourself a classic case of harassment, not battery. You could press charges yourself and bring it to court. Then it will be your word against hers and unless you have evidence your’re not getting anywhere. The judge will probably ask “why are you still going to that pub?” ---
**Author:** ![Cheesesteak](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cheesesteak/32/3694_2.png) [@Cheesesteak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cheesesteak)\ **Post date:** [June 9, 2004, 8:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-i-have-a-legal-right-to-defend-myself-from-unwanted-touching/249421/23 "2004-06-09T20:13:51Z")
I’m with Nametag on this. As far as I’m concerned, you go through channels to get satisfaction. In this case, if the bartender is willing to kick her ass out the door, that is what should happen. Or at least, he should tell her to knock it off or go home. I only suggested going to the cops to head off her accusation. If you can prevent the harassment by telling the bartender, then that is all you should do. Your rights, IMHO, only go towards ending the harassment, you don’t get to escalate them to violence unless that is your only avenue, and it isn’t. ---
**Author:** ![TheFifthYear](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/958977/32.png) [@TheFifthYear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TheFifthYear)\ **Post date:** [June 9, 2004, 9:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-i-have-a-legal-right-to-defend-myself-from-unwanted-touching/249421/24 "2004-06-09T21:22:13Z")
> [@Nametag](#): > > There is no crime or civil violation, even in the event of a legal battery (“offensive touching”) unless some HARM has been done for which you must be compensated; unless she gives you hives, nightmares, or an ulcer, TS. I agree with everything you said except the above. At common law, to make a prima facie case for battery, you do not have to prove any damages. Nominal awards are available, meaning a plaintiff could be awarded $1 in actual damages. Punitives may be available in egregious cases. Of course, the above really only applies in fantasy land where people sue for a dollar. In real life, take Nametag’s advice. ---
**Author:** ![Just\_Ed](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/e19b73/32.png) [@Just\_Ed](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Just_Ed)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2004, 12:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-i-have-a-legal-right-to-defend-myself-from-unwanted-touching/249421/25 "2004-06-10T00:56:30Z")
> [@Eleusis](#): > > :smack: > Insert the word “ME” in there where ever you might deem appropriate. Hmmm . . . lessee . . . > [@](#): > > GET ME THE FUCK AWAY FROM YOU NASTY BITCH!!! Not bad, but it implies somebody else needs to take action to remove you from the scene. Not forceful enough, in that respect. > [@](#): > > GET THE ME FUCK AWAY FROM YOU NASTY BITCH!!! I dunno . . . Besides not being entirely sure exactly what a “me fuck” is, it still calls for third-party action. > [@](#): > > GET THE FUCK ME AWAY FROM YOU NASTY BITCH!!! Well, I suppose you _are_ trying to get the “fuck me” away from her . . . > [@](#): > > GET THE FUCK AWAY ME FROM YOU NASTY BITCH!!! Sorta Tarzanish, no? > [@](#): > > GET THE FUCK AWAY FROM ME YOU NASTY BITCH!!! Ah. It’s simple, but it says it, I suppose. > [@](#): > > GET THE FUCK AWAY FROM YOU ME NASTY BITCH!!! Arrrr, matey. And bring me rum while yer at it! > [@](#): > > GET THE FUCK AWAY FROM YOU NASTY ME BITCH!!! Um. Well, you would want your bitch to stay away from her nasty (er, wouldn’t you?). > [@](#): > > GET THE FUCK AWAY FROM YOU NASTY BITCH ME!!! Understand quite not. Clarification needs this. There is no try. > [@](#): > > ME GET THE FUCK AWAY FROM YOU NASTY BITCH!!! Og like. Oh, by the way, **daffyduck**? If you and your friends are regulars in this place, don’t think the bartender isn’t serious in offering to help. In my experience, most bartenders would prefer to keep their better customers satisfied. Don’t think of it as somebody “fighting your battles”, but rather a perk that comes with your “regular” status. ---
**Author:** ![daffyduck](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ec9cab/32.png) [@daffyduck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/daffyduck)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2004, 4:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-i-have-a-legal-right-to-defend-myself-from-unwanted-touching/249421/26 "2004-06-10T04:22:30Z")
> [@Quixotic](#): > > Oh, by the way, **daffyduck**? If you and your friends are regulars in this place, don’t think the bartender isn’t serious in offering to help. In my experience, most bartenders would prefer to keep their better customers satisfied. Don’t think of it as somebody “fighting your battles”, but rather a perk that comes with your “regular” status. Point taken. As for simply igoring her, that was my first tactic. She took it as encouragement. Yes, the bartender offered to 86 her, but it was strictly on my behalf and that troubled me as I felt that I needed to find a way to deal with the situation on my own. Some people obviously feel that my reation represents a personality flaw in me and I’m willing to consider that. On the other hand, it’s a neighborhood bar and they need all the customers they can get and I have no objection to the woman being there as long as she leaves me alone. I’m not out looking for revenge or an excuse to get physical and my original post was written soon after an encounter with her so I was feeling rather vexed, shall we say. I’m actually looking for an appropriate response and that isn’t always as easy as it sounds. This woman, quite simply, is bullying me and unless you have ever had to personally deal with a bully, then I don’t think you understand the emotions involved. I’d say you are lucky to have never been in a situation where you are simply tired (after six months) of someone fucking with you for their personal amusement. It’s degrading. If my emotions were all that I cared about, I would have pushed her face in a long time ago and quite happily taken the jail time so don’t presume to understand the fullness of the situation or my reactions to it from a few sentences in a forum. This may seem like a small thing to you, but that doesn’t make me wrong for feeling differently about it. I’ve been dealing with the situation the best way that I know how to do and if that doesn’t meet your standards, then I’m sorry. I actually thought I was doing the right thing by refusing the offer of the 86 but now I am rethinking that position due to the remarks of **Quixotic**. Which is exactly why I brought it up in the first place. I recognized that I needed help in dealing with the situation or I wouldn’t have brought it up. I could have stated it better in the first case, but guess what, I’m not perfect. This thread has been a helpful process for me and so I thank each and every one of you for that. ---
**Author:** ![xash](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/x/c6cbf5/32.png) [@xash](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/xash)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2004, 4:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-i-have-a-legal-right-to-defend-myself-from-unwanted-touching/249421/27 "2004-06-10T04:35:01Z")
Moved to IMHO. **Eleusis** , please mind your language while you’re in GQ or IMHO. - **xash** General Questions Moderator ---
**Author:** ![Shade](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/2bfe46/32.png) [@Shade](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shade)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2004, 11:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-i-have-a-legal-right-to-defend-myself-from-unwanted-touching/249421/28 "2004-06-10T11:08:47Z")
The barstaff offered to bounce her? If you don’t want it, surely a stern warning is in order? You’re putting up with it for the moment, so you can cope a little longer. Ask the barman to go to her and say “You are bothering this man. You do not have the right to touch someone without their permission. If you do this again I _will_ throw you out for the night, and possibly forever if you still can’t get the hint. And if you persist remember it _is_ illegal.” You risk sounding prima-donna-y, but that’s step’s probably already been taken, because to some extent people expect men not to mind this sort of thing from a girl, and your prior reasonable protestations are bound to sound stupid to _someone_. If she still can’t manage it, then I’d say it’s clearly her fault, and you don’t have to worry about it being your fault if she’s chucked out. Another possibility is that she likes you - you could try kissing her and seeing if it shuts her up. But (1) the police are unfortunately more likely to listen to her than you technical-assault-wise and (2) you sound like you despise her anyway 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Liberal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/848f3c/32.png) [@Liberal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Liberal)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2004, 11:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-i-have-a-legal-right-to-defend-myself-from-unwanted-touching/249421/29 "2004-06-10T11:15:18Z")
> [@Daffyduck](#): > > Yes, the bartender offered to 86 her, but it was strictly on my behalf and that troubled me as I felt that I needed to find a way to deal with the situation on my own. Actually, using the bartender (or the bouncer or the cops) to kick her out IS dealing with the situation on your own. You’ve heard the story of God and the rescue boat, right? ---
**Author:** ![Kalhoun](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/3bc359/32.png) [@Kalhoun](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kalhoun)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2004, 12:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-i-have-a-legal-right-to-defend-myself-from-unwanted-touching/249421/30 "2004-06-10T12:41:18Z")
> [@daffyduck](#): > > Thanks to all for responding! > > My crew is definitely behind me and willing to backup any play I care to make. The manager of the pub has offered to 86 the cow for me, but it has become personal and I don’t want other people fighting my fights for me. > > I like the accidentally spilling idea. It has a symmetry that appeals to me. In the same way that she is “just being friendly” I will “just be clumsy” and the bartenders will happily give me a large glass of ice water to keep next to me for ammunition. (No sense wasting good beer on bad trash) If she makes a stink, she will get 86’d for creating a disturbance. > > Thanks again! Get a restraining order. The beer dumping and anything else you physically do to her can be considered assault as well. She’ll stay away from you if the law says she has to. How did this nightmare come to be? ---
**Author:** ![Scuba\_Ben](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/278dde/32.png) [@Scuba\_Ben](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scuba_Ben)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2004, 1:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-i-have-a-legal-right-to-defend-myself-from-unwanted-touching/249421/31 "2004-06-10T13:14:00Z")
ISTR from a recent “Ask the Bartender” thread that there’s a few bar drinks that involve a LOT of Tabasco sauce. Look up one of those drinks, get the recipie, give it to your bartender – then buy this woman a drink. Better yet, have one of your mates buy her the drink, before she starts after you. Then graciously allow the bartender to 86 the bumette. ---
**Author:** ![Zebra](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/c0e974/32.png) [@Zebra](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zebra)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2004, 1:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-i-have-a-legal-right-to-defend-myself-from-unwanted-touching/249421/32 "2004-06-10T13:23:56Z")
Step 1 Put Saran Wrap on arm Step 2 Put on long sleeve shirt Step 3 Put itching powder on shirt sleeve Step 4 Enter bar ---
**Author:** ![All\_That\_And](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ed8c4c/32.png) [@All\_That\_And](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/All_That_And)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2004, 1:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-i-have-a-legal-right-to-defend-myself-from-unwanted-touching/249421/33 "2004-06-10T13:54:11Z")
**daffyduck** , it sounds to me like you have some personal issues with women and your personal space. Perhaps you should take a look at those issues and maybe all of this will go away i.e. it won’t be that much of a problem. I would suggest you stop encouraging her by changing your behavior i.e. be nice to her, ask for her number, take her out on a date, have sex with her, problem solved. Okay you don’t have to date her or have sex with her, but stop making a big deal out of it, be an adult. ---
**Author:** ![Dragwyr](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dragwyr/32/2855_2.png) [@Dragwyr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dragwyr)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2004, 2:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-i-have-a-legal-right-to-defend-myself-from-unwanted-touching/249421/34 "2004-06-10T14:02:43Z")
I’m of the opinion that if she’s screwing with your head, you should start screwing with her head. The “accidental” drink dump is a good start. I’m sure there are other weird and strange things you could do when she is around to make her choose to say away. Here are some suggestions that are nonviolent and nonconfrontational: [ul] [li]Come in one night after not bathing for a week. The BO would definately be something she wouldn’t want to be around.[/li][li]Bring a bunch of pictures of old girlfriends and start talking about how each one of them “mysteriously” died when you dating them. Go through each picture and describe how each girlfriend’s body was found by the police in great detail.[/li][li]Eat a bunch of spicy food, laden with onion, garlic and whatever other type of spice that tends to linger on your breath. When she talks to you, be sure to talk right in her face so she can get the full brunt of your bad breath.[/li][li]When she latches onto you, start telling her your sob story of how you just got back from the hospital for treatment of some hightly communicable disease and that the current round of antibiotics appear to be resistant to.[/li][li]Start pitching her on the merits of owning your own Amway/Quixtar business.[/li][/ul] ---
**Author:** ![Green\_Bean](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/green_bean/32/1760_2.png) [@Green\_Bean](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Green_Bean)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2004, 3:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-i-have-a-legal-right-to-defend-myself-from-unwanted-touching/249421/35 "2004-06-10T15:09:06Z")
Oy. I can’t believe all the terrible advice that’s been offered in this thread! Hopefully, one of our resident lawyers will pop in and give you some better ideas. IANAL, but it seems to me that this woman is definitely harassing you. Her motives for doing so are irrelevant. In cases of harassment of any kind, the #1 thing you should do is document document document. Stick a piece of paper in your pocket. Write down what she did, what time, and who was present. Document what you said to her. Write down what she said. (If you can get it on tape, so much the better.) Do not “retaliate,” either physically or verbally. Be cold and polite. Tell her to stop touching you, and to never touch you again. If the situation resolves itself somehow, you don’t have to do anything with your record of her behavior. If you find that you do need to address the situation, or if it escalates, then the record will be crucial. By the way, this is a clear case of “if the genders were reversed, the response would be very different.” If a guy was repeatedly touching a female even after she told him to stop, it would immediately be recognized as a form of harassment, sexual or otherwise. Her refusal to stop would be seen as a major red flag and an indication that the behavior has a good chance of escalating. I’m sorry that people aren’t taking this seriously because your harasser is a bar hag rather than a coworker. ---
**Author:** ![a35362](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/3da27b/32.png) [@a35362](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/a35362)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2004, 9:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-i-have-a-legal-right-to-defend-myself-from-unwanted-touching/249421/36 "2004-06-10T21:51:54Z")
I’m still not clear: is the woman a bar customer or a bar employee? Can’t you just say (loudly enough for others to hear): “[Name], get your hands off me!” “[Name], stop touching me!” “[Name], will you please leave me alone?” …and repeat as often as necessary, until she gets a clue or people turn to stare at her every time you raise your voice. ---
**Author:** ![Just\_Ed](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/e19b73/32.png) [@Just\_Ed](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Just_Ed)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2004, 10:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-i-have-a-legal-right-to-defend-myself-from-unwanted-touching/249421/37 "2004-06-10T22:18:07Z")
Eep. First of all, my apologies to both **Eleusis** and **xash** for exacerbating a lighthearted aside. In my (admittedly poor) defense, I’d just been reading Lynne Truss’s _Eats, Shoots, and Leaves_, wherein she demonstrates the unintentionally comic effects of the unfortunate placement of commas. The experiment of the placement of the innocent “me” was too much of a coincidence to pass up. _Mea culpa_. Secondly, my apologies to **daffyduck** as well if I have seemed to belittle his emotions in dealing with this harridan. I assure you I did not mean to do so. ---
**Author:** ![Bosda\_Di\_Chi\_of\_Tricor](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bosda_di_chi_of_tricor/32/16845_2.png) [@Bosda\_Di\_Chi\_of\_Tricor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bosda_Di_Chi_of_Tricor)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2004, 11:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-i-have-a-legal-right-to-defend-myself-from-unwanted-touching/249421/38 "2004-06-10T23:21:35Z")
**daffy** – get yourself some Jack Ckick tracts, & everytime she comes into the bar, do your level best to see to it that she develops a personal relationship with Jay-sus! And if she already **has** such a relationship, kick it up a notch to progressively weirder sects. If you have to, consider the Snake Handling sects. ---
**Author:** ![ParentalAdvisory](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/53a042/32.png) [@ParentalAdvisory](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ParentalAdvisory)\ **Post date:** [June 11, 2004, 3:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-i-have-a-legal-right-to-defend-myself-from-unwanted-touching/249421/39 "2004-06-11T15:48:53Z")
Now the real question, is she hot, or not? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-i-have-a-legal-right-to-defend-myself-from-unwanted-touching/249421.md?page=1)