# Do I have to take sh\*t from a girl because I ruined her life in Junior High? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [June 10, 2005, 5:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-i-have-to-take-sh-t-from-a-girl-because-i-ruined-her-life-in-junior-high/307704 "2005-06-10T05:36:49Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![B.Serum](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/b.serum/32/14266_2.png) [@B.Serum](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/B.Serum)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2005, 6:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-i-have-to-take-sh-t-from-a-girl-because-i-ruined-her-life-in-junior-high/307704/61 "2005-06-10T18:40:15Z")
If you want to do the mature thing, take the shit shit she gives you and appreciate that it’s payback. She’s not being entirely mature either – holding a grudge, trying to “get back at someone” – but I can’t say I blame her. You suggest that she should grow up and get over it (now that it suits _you,_ Mr. Not-a-Selfish-Jerk-Anymore). I ask in reply, what have you done to _earn_ her respect? If you traumatized her earlier in life, does it strike you as odd that her defenses would snap into place whenever she sees you? Fool her once, shame on you. Fool her twice, shame on her. If you’re serious about treating people well, you should realize it takes work to gain trust and goodwill. If you have a history of bad behavior, you have to demonstrate that the "nice’ or “mature” START isn’t the exception or just a fluke. Your behavior has to be repeatable and sustainable. Think of every kind thing you do as $1 credit but every callous thing you did as a $1 debit. How deep in debt were you? Personally I tend to think that zebras do not change their stripes. A question like “Do I have to take her shit?” sounds out-of-character coming from a kind, empathetic person. ---
**Author:** ![elfbabe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/b782af/32.png) [@elfbabe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elfbabe)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2005, 6:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-i-have-to-take-sh-t-from-a-girl-because-i-ruined-her-life-in-junior-high/307704/62 "2005-06-10T18:41:25Z")
When I was that age, I wore sweatpants every day. I didn’t start wearing deodorant regularly until **Qadgop** told me I smelled like a goat. (He was right, unfortunately.) I didn’t shower anywhere near often enough. I couldn’t really run or play sports anything other than ineptly. And even worse, I did very well in all of my classes. The predictable happened. It sucked. A lot. And you know what? I got over it. I grew up and mastered Fashion and Cleanliness. I assume a few of the people who tormented me eventually became decent human beings, but I don’t really care. It’s long over, and it doesn’t do me any good to focus on it. I have a _life_ now, and that’s much more important. **START** , I’d mentally categorized you as “annoying and a bit of a jerk,” but regardless of popular opinion, I think you really ARE sorry. I think you deserve how she’s currently treating you, but I _don’t_ think you should just sit back and let it happen. For one thing, it’s not good for _her_ to be doing this to someone. If she gets too used to acting this way, it’s going to change who she is for the worse. Hatred just isn’t healthy, for anyone. Even if it is deserved. Apologize, and I mean _really_ apologize. Of COURSE she didn’t accept your apology in the 7th grade, sheesh. That doesn’t excuse you from apologizing now. Tell her how you were an absolute asshole in middle school, how you can’t even imagine how much you must have hurt her, how you feel really guilty about it. Ask if there’s anything you can do to begin to atone for it. If that includes never going near her again, _do it_. In fact, suggest that. It’s a good idea, regardless. And whatever else atonement includes, within reason, _do it_. And after that, if she keeps dishing this stuff out… Say something nice. Every time. Tell her her hair looks good or congratulate her if you hear she’s done well at something… or even just say “I’m sorry”. Not “Geez, sor_ry_!” or “I _said_ I was sorry!” just a sincere “I’m sorry”. Every time. That’s a lot closer to real atonement then just trying to ignore her, you’ll have to _work_ for this. I doubt she’s going to become your best friend… but she may end up _not_ hating you, and she’ll probably stop sooner. If you want to talk to someone who understands what you did to her from her perspective but who _doesn’t_ want to disembowl you, email me or something. ---
**Author:** ![START](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/2bfe46/32.png) [@START](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/START)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2005, 7:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-i-have-to-take-sh-t-from-a-girl-because-i-ruined-her-life-in-junior-high/307704/63 "2005-06-10T19:14:27Z")
Ok so there are 2 POV’s in this thread about me in general… > [@elbows](#): > > You are a cold, calculating and cruel with no regard for anyone else. Every incident you’ve described to us on this board demonstrates it. Ugh. > Today 10:09 AM that ^ > [@Green Bean](#): > > START, I want you to know that I treasure your presence on this board and count you among my favorite Dopers of all time. and this.^ Anyway Laura is the sister (or cousin, not sure) of one of my Step Bro’s friends so if her brother comes over she will often accompany him or if I’m with my SB she will often show up. For the people that feel the way elbows does it wouldn’t matter what I did, or how hard I apologized, I’d still be me so therefore I am still a jerk, so I gotta live with it. It doesn’t matter that I am trying to comprehend exactly how bad I hurt her and that I did apologize. Just the fact that I did it and can’t really take it back is all these Dopers can see. I do regret doing what I did but I don’t regret writing about it because I was being for real, no spin or anything my OP is exactly how bad I acted and as bad as I behaved is as sorry as I was and still am. ---
**Author:** ![Scumpup](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ce73a5/32.png) [@Scumpup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scumpup)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2005, 7:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-i-have-to-take-sh-t-from-a-girl-because-i-ruined-her-life-in-junior-high/307704/64 "2005-06-10T19:28:38Z")
Yeah, START, you’re really the victim in all this… ---
**Author:** ![lightingtool](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/57b2e6/32.png) [@lightingtool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lightingtool)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2005, 7:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-i-have-to-take-sh-t-from-a-girl-because-i-ruined-her-life-in-junior-high/307704/65 "2005-06-10T19:35:08Z")
**Scumpup** , where is **START** playing the victim card here? ---
**Author:** ![wonky](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wonky/32/393_2.png) [@wonky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wonky)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2005, 7:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-i-have-to-take-sh-t-from-a-girl-because-i-ruined-her-life-in-junior-high/307704/66 "2005-06-10T19:36:04Z")
> [@START](#): > > It doesn’t matter that I am trying to comprehend exactly how bad I hurt her and that I did apologize. Just the fact that I did it and can’t really take it back is all these Dopers can see. No, I can see more than that. I can see that you post to this board all the time about how you treated someone badly. I can see that the topic of this thread is “Do I have to take shit from a girl because I ruined her life in Junior High?” which is both combative and egocentric. I can see that you appear to be looking for an okay to be a jerk back. I can see that people with real remorse would have asked “How can I make it up to this girl?” instead of “Can I fight back now? How about now? Huh? Huh?” You’re the same guy who made fun of the man buying from Goodwill, right? You’re the same guy who was involved with taunting someone from a car, right? You keep posting these stories and you’re surprised when some posters think you’re making yet another bid for attention and fail to feel genuine remorse? ---
**Author:** ![Euthanasiast](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/6f9a4e/32.png) [@Euthanasiast](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Euthanasiast)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2005, 7:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-i-have-to-take-sh-t-from-a-girl-because-i-ruined-her-life-in-junior-high/307704/67 "2005-06-10T19:45:49Z")
> [@](#): > > Yup. What you did was wretched. > > That she may be exacting revenge for herself and everyone else you took pleasure in hurting so you could be popular is something to consider. > > Further, that you should take it and not retaliate in anyway I think is in order. > > You have some serious penance to do. Damn straight. Get ready to become an adult. Take everything she has and know that you deserve it all. Maybe it’s cathartic for her, maybe not, but her reasons don’t matter. Do not apologize to this girl. Your apologies will be weak and empty. Do not try to reason with her on the matter, as she isn’t going to care that you’ve ‘grown up’. You have but one job now, and that job is to take it like a man. She’ll let you know when you’ve had enough. ---
**Author:** ![FaerieBeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/e95f7d/32.png) [@FaerieBeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FaerieBeth)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2005, 7:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-i-have-to-take-sh-t-from-a-girl-because-i-ruined-her-life-in-junior-high/307704/68 "2005-06-10T19:52:06Z")
> [@jsgoddess](#): > > No, I can see more than that. I can see that you post to this board all the time about how you treated someone badly. I can see that the topic of this thread is “Do I have to take shit from a girl because I ruined her life in Junior High?” which is both combative and egocentric. I can see that you appear to be looking for an okay to be a jerk back. I can see that people with real remorse would have asked “How can I make it up to this girl?” instead of “Can I fight back now? How about now? Huh? Huh?” > > You’re the same guy who made fun of the man buying from Goodwill, right? You’re the same guy who was involved with taunting someone from a car, right? You keep posting these stories and you’re surprised when some posters think you’re making yet another bid for attention and fail to feel genuine remorse? So, I’m not the only one who was hearing the echo of my shampooing directions? ---
**Author:** ![UrbanChic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/9dc877/32.png) [@UrbanChic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UrbanChic)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2005, 7:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-i-have-to-take-sh-t-from-a-girl-because-i-ruined-her-life-in-junior-high/307704/69 "2005-06-10T19:52:41Z")
With advice like that, START’s going to make a fine, fine husband someday… ---
**Author:** ![Duke\_of\_Rat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ad7895/32.png) [@Duke\_of\_Rat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Duke_of_Rat)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2005, 7:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-i-have-to-take-sh-t-from-a-girl-because-i-ruined-her-life-in-junior-high/307704/70 "2005-06-10T19:55:54Z")
Wow, she didn’t just curse _at_ you, she _cursed_ you! ---
**Author:** ![Binarydrone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/3da27b/32.png) [@Binarydrone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Binarydrone)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2005, 7:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-i-have-to-take-sh-t-from-a-girl-because-i-ruined-her-life-in-junior-high/307704/71 "2005-06-10T19:59:35Z")
My suggestion: A written apology in which you show genuine remorse for your actions and very specifically mention the things that you are sorry for doing. No personal contact. Leave it at that. Going forward, you should probably take to heart some of the things that were said in this thread, and think well on them before you interact with other humans. I am thinking this is worth reading again: > [@fluiddruid](#): > > Just think about it for a second – in order to improve your own social standing, you preyed on someone weaker than you. Not just once, not for a short period of time, but regularly for a year and a half. It didn’t just hurt when you were doing it, either – it hurt afterward, and after a point she was probably filled with fear and anger going to school each and every day. You caused a great deal of heartache, pain, and despair just because it benefited you in some way. Really. Read it again, and let that sink in. What would she have learned in that year and a half had this not been the case? What could she have become? Naturally, I don’t know this person, she may well be one of those people that overcomes these things and actually is strengthened by them. It is also quite possible that you have given someone scars with far reaching consequences that they will carry with them to the grave. ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2005, 8:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-i-have-to-take-sh-t-from-a-girl-because-i-ruined-her-life-in-junior-high/307704/72 "2005-06-10T20:03:30Z")
**START** , I think Laura is obviously a person with a ton of hurt still in her. Yes, what she said was cruel. I wouldn’t have done it myself, but I do remember hurting so badly that I would have sunk to any low just to get the person tormenting me to feel the way I did. Yes, you are sorry. Yes, what she said was horrible. However, appologizing, no matter how sincere, is not going to stop this, I’m afraid. She may look great, but her most hideous and painful scars are still on the inside. And I can say from first-hand experience-they never go away entirely. I was a “Laura” too, and I hate to say it, but there’s nothing you can do. As for taking her shit, your only choice is to just avoid her as much as possible. Trying to one up her will only prove to her that she CAN’T trust anyone. You’re just going to have to suck it up and deal this time. Not everything can be smoothed over, no matter HOW sorry you are. ---
**Author:** ![gaucho](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/c67d28/32.png) [@gaucho](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gaucho)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2005, 8:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-i-have-to-take-sh-t-from-a-girl-because-i-ruined-her-life-in-junior-high/307704/73 "2005-06-10T20:04:24Z")
Jesus, guys, 6 & 7th grade, is like, what 11-12 years old? I can’t believe the animosity towards this guy for what he did when he was a fucking kid. Everyone is a moronic little shit at that age. And now this woman is rubbing his brother’s death in his face? I think you’ve done the right thing by acknowledging you were an asshole and making apologetic overtures to her. I certainly don’t think you owe her anything more than that. If she wants to nurse this resentment from your childhood, that’s entirely her problem. ---
**Author:** ![Binarydrone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/3da27b/32.png) [@Binarydrone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Binarydrone)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2005, 8:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-i-have-to-take-sh-t-from-a-girl-because-i-ruined-her-life-in-junior-high/307704/74 "2005-06-10T20:08:49Z")
> [@gaucho](#): > > Jesus, guys, 6 & 7th grade, is like, what 11-12 years old? I can’t believe the animosity towards this guy for what he did when he was a fucking kid. Everyone is a moronic little shit at that age. And now this woman is rubbing his brother’s death in his face?.. Well, just as a thought, some folks are still carrying around damage from what “fucking kids” did. It is also worth pointing out that, at least in my limited experience, not all “fucking kids” are nasty little bullies and so in a lot of ways I think that it says a lot about those that do stoop to this sorry of primate pecking order atavistic behavior. ---
**Author:** ![UrbanChic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/9dc877/32.png) [@UrbanChic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UrbanChic)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2005, 8:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-i-have-to-take-sh-t-from-a-girl-because-i-ruined-her-life-in-junior-high/307704/75 "2005-06-10T20:17:11Z")
I agree with you. Some people are bringing baggage into this thread and dumping it at START’s feet. He invited it and he’s a big boy, however, and should be able to weed out the emotionaly charged responses from the reasonable ones ---
**Author:** ![Izzybella](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/e56c9b/32.png) [@Izzybella](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Izzybella)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2005, 8:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-i-have-to-take-sh-t-from-a-girl-because-i-ruined-her-life-in-junior-high/307704/76 "2005-06-10T20:21:56Z")
> [@Euthanasiast](#): > > Do not apologize to this girl. Your apologies will be weak and empty. Do not try to reason with her on the matter, as she isn’t going to care that you’ve ‘grown up’. You have but one job now, and that job is to take it like a man. She’ll let you know when you’ve had enough. I absolutely agree. You’ve already apologized and she made it perfectly clear that she chose not to accept it. Apologizing again is a waste of time. Furthermore, I don’t think there is any possible way you could word an apology that would get the results you want. You’ve gotten great advice on this thread–just keep trying to be a better person. I’ve been where you are in a way. When I was in the sixth grade I dumped my less-popular friend for the in-crowd. To this day I regret it. I tried to make it up to her later but she wasn’t having any of that, and who the hell can blame her. We were never friends again but I remember the way I treated her and I learned from it. It had a definite impact on how I treated people in later years. You and Laura may never be friends. That’s okay. Take the experience, learn from it, and move on. And for what it’s worth I don’t think you’re crap. I think you’re young. You’ll get there. ---
**Author:** ![missbunny](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/76d3ee/32.png) [@missbunny](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/missbunny)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2005, 8:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-i-have-to-take-sh-t-from-a-girl-because-i-ruined-her-life-in-junior-high/307704/77 "2005-06-10T20:24:30Z")
> [@](#): > > Jesus, guys, 6 & 7th grade, is like, what 11-12 years old? I can’t believe the animosity towards this guy for what he did when he was a fucking kid. Everyone is a moronic little shit at that age. And now this woman is rubbing his brother’s death in his face? She’s not a “woman.” START is perhaps 15 now, as is Laura. It’s not like this happened 25 years ago. It was fairly recent, in the scheme of a 15-year-old’s lifespan. ---
**Author:** ![elfbabe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/b782af/32.png) [@elfbabe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elfbabe)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2005, 8:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-i-have-to-take-sh-t-from-a-girl-because-i-ruined-her-life-in-junior-high/307704/78 "2005-06-10T20:27:22Z")
> [@START](#): > > For the people that feel the way elbows does it wouldn’t matter what I did, or how hard I apologized, I’d still be me so therefore I am still a jerk, so I gotta live with it. Basically… yes. That does seem to be pretty much how some people feel. Though I don’t agree. You _were_ scum, yes, but now you’re… recovering scum, I suppose. Which often has a lot of similarities to scum, but has much more potential for improvement and at least gets you points for effort. Just because you picked on her in middle school, though, doesn’t necessarily mean that her view on what to do in this situation is the right one, that she ought to have license to do anything and everything she wants to you, or that doing really nasty things to you isn’t going to negatively affect HER. You’re a guy was an utter asshole and realizes now that it wasn’t such a good idea, not some sort of war criminal. You are actually _still a human being_, with potential to be a decent one, _just like her_! Imagine! …but this board is probably one of the _worst_ on which to admit that you’re one of those people who harassed the unpopular kids in middle school. As you’ve probably already figured out. Oh, and note to everyone else: Yes, he apologized before. In the 7th grade! The day it happened! Of _course_ she wouldn’t have accepted it then! ---
**Author:** ![Wesley\_Clark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wesley_clark/32/20581_2.png) [@Wesley\_Clark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wesley_Clark)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2005, 9:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-i-have-to-take-sh-t-from-a-girl-because-i-ruined-her-life-in-junior-high/307704/79 "2005-06-10T21:35:49Z")
> [@missbunny](#): > > I am not seeing how she had a “crush” on him. Can someone point this out to me? Up here he says it > [@START](#): > > Laura told me that I was nicer when I was by myself, that I was so much cuter when I wasn’t being a jerk and she hoped we could at least say “Hi” to each other at school. ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2005, 9:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-i-have-to-take-sh-t-from-a-girl-because-i-ruined-her-life-in-junior-high/307704/80 "2005-06-10T21:46:57Z")
**Wesley** , that doesn’t mean she had a crush. It probably just meant she felt really happy that someone was actually being nice to her, and she felt excited that she might have a new friend. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-i-have-to-take-sh-t-from-a-girl-because-i-ruined-her-life-in-junior-high/307704.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-i-have-to-take-sh-t-from-a-girl-because-i-ruined-her-life-in-junior-high/307704.md?page=5)