# Do I need a visa to visit the US ? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [March 8, 2013, 7:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-i-need-a-visa-to-visit-the-us/652413 "2013-03-08T19:04:04Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Bones\_Daley](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/bc8723/32.png) [@Bones\_Daley](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bones_Daley)\ **Post date:** [March 8, 2013, 7:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-i-need-a-visa-to-visit-the-us/652413/1 "2013-03-08T19:04:04Z")
Ok…condensed history …I first went to the US in 1998 …overstayed my 90 day limit…got married to a US citizen (within the US ) …returned to UK in early 2K …been here ever since. I want to visit the States later this year for a week or so. Thing is, my passport has expired so I will have a new one, and I am assuming that on the new passport there will be no record of my previous visits to the US. So …do I really have to go through the hassle of applying for a visa , or is the better bet just to lie about my previous overstay, sign the visa exemption form when I am aboard the aircraft, and hope that immigration don’t have any means of tracking my previous visits when I land at Newark ? I have no moral scruples whatsoever about telling a little white lie if it’s going to save me the hassle of getting a visa, it’s not like I am planning the downfall of the American government ( and that actually\*\*\* is\*\*\* one of the questions on the visa exemption form …I kid you not). ---
**Author:** ![dolphinboy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dolphinboy/32/330_2.png) [@dolphinboy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dolphinboy)\ **Post date:** [March 8, 2013, 7:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-i-need-a-visa-to-visit-the-us/652413/2 "2013-03-08T19:08:10Z")
I sure wouldn’t assume that they can’t track your previous visits… ---
**Author:** ![Great\_Antibob](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e47c2d/32.png) [@Great\_Antibob](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Great_Antibob)\ **Post date:** [March 8, 2013, 7:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-i-need-a-visa-to-visit-the-us/652413/3 "2013-03-08T19:11:00Z")
The GQ answer is, yes, you should apply for a visa. I do recall that UK citizens traveling to the US need to file some kind of visa waiver electronically, so that’s another layer of form filling to consider. BTW, it’s against board rules to suggest illegal activity or describe how to knowingly commit illegal activity, and any answer suggesting lying on travel documents would violate that rule. ---
**Author:** ![PaulParkhead](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/7ea924/32.png) [@PaulParkhead](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PaulParkhead)\ **Post date:** [March 8, 2013, 7:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-i-need-a-visa-to-visit-the-us/652413/4 "2013-03-08T19:13:42Z")
> [@Great\_Antibob](#): > > The GQ answer is, yes, you should apply for a visa. > > I do recall that UK citizens traveling to the US need to file some kind of visa waiver electronically, so that’s another layer of form filling to consider. > > BTW, it’s against board rules to suggest illegal activity or describe how to knowingly commit illegal activity, and any answer suggesting lying on travel documents would violate that rule. Yes, it’s the [ESTA](https://esta.cbp.dhs.gov/esta/) program. OP, am I correct in assuming that you did not adjust your status to Lawful Permanent Resident after entering the US on a Visa Waiver? ---
**Author:** ![Ravenman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ravenman/32/2929_2.png) [@Ravenman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ravenman)\ **Post date:** [March 8, 2013, 7:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-i-need-a-visa-to-visit-the-us/652413/5 "2013-03-08T19:16:46Z")
The US Visa Waiver Program requires that: > [@](#): > > If you have had a U.S. visa before or previously traveled to the United States under VWP or another status, you must have complied with the conditions of previous admissions to the United States. [Cite](http://travel.state.gov/visa/temp/without/without_1990.html#compliance). Since it doesn’t say “If you were **caught** breaking immigration laws on your previous visit…” it would be your legal responsibility to apply for a visa. ---
**Author:** ![Bones\_Daley](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/bc8723/32.png) [@Bones\_Daley](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bones_Daley)\ **Post date:** [March 8, 2013, 8:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-i-need-a-visa-to-visit-the-us/652413/6 "2013-03-08T20:19:23Z")
Thanks for replies so far …what I really am interested in is how integrated is the software at immigration control in the US with the UK databases … Like…I have no criminal record …and the visa waiver program requires you to declare if you have …but if I did in fact have a criminal record, and this was a new passport…how would the US authorities access my records ? What sort of cross referencing is implemented ? It would be just peachy if somebody who actually _ **knew** _ how the system operates would contribute …moral judgements are ten a penny … At the end of the day I probably \*\*\*will \*\*\*in fact apply for a visa …but there will always be that lingering question …did I really have to ?? ---
**Author:** ![samclem](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a9a28c/32.png) [@samclem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/samclem)\ **Post date:** [March 8, 2013, 9:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-i-need-a-visa-to-visit-the-us/652413/7 "2013-03-08T21:12:48Z")
No moral scruples? Little white lie? Sounds like this belongs in IMHO, rather than General Questions. Moved. **samclem** , moderator ---
**Author:** ![Telemark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/telemark/32/372_2.png) [@Telemark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Telemark)\ **Post date:** [March 8, 2013, 9:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-i-need-a-visa-to-visit-the-us/652413/8 "2013-03-08T21:21:50Z")
New or old passport - they’re both tied back to the same set of records. It’s not like you get a do-over when your passport expires. ---
**Author:** ![GreasyJack](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/df705f/32.png) [@GreasyJack](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GreasyJack)\ **Post date:** [March 8, 2013, 9:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-i-need-a-visa-to-visit-the-us/652413/9 "2013-03-08T21:44:42Z")
> [@Bones\_Daley](#): > > I have no moral scruples whatsoever about telling a little white lie if it’s going to save me the hassle of getting a visa, it’s not like I am planning the downfall of the American government ( and that actually\*\*\* is\*\*\* one of the questions on the visa exemption form …I kid you not). Man, I’ll bet you have to fill out a lot of paperwork for the “planning the downfall of the American government” visa. ---
**Author:** ![Duckster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/duckster/32/1244_2.png) [@Duckster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Duckster)\ **Post date:** [March 8, 2013, 9:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-i-need-a-visa-to-visit-the-us/652413/10 "2013-03-08T21:54:27Z")
> [@Bones\_Daley](#): > > It would be just peachy if somebody who actually _ **knew** _ how the system operates would contribute …moral judgements are ten a penny … > > At the end of the day I probably \*\*\*will \*\*\*in fact apply for a visa …but there will always be that lingering question ..did I really have to ?? [ol] [li]Renew you passport[/li][li][Apply for your visa](http://london.usembassy.gov/rctour.html)[/li][li]Hope for the best[/li][/ol] Both the UK and the USA have records of your previous travel, tied to your passport and visa. Neither will tell you what they know and how they know what they know. There will be no one here who is able to post the inside knowledge. The fact is the last time you were in the USA you overstayed your visa and got married in the USA. IIRC, both of those are visa violations. Whether those violations will impact your new visa application remains to be seen. You said you “returned to UK in early 2K…” What does that mean? Did you return in 2000 but don’t remember which month? Or did you return in 2000, 2001, 2002, 2003, etc.? The point here is 9/11. That date is critical here in the USA. As a result of the 9/11 terrorist attacks visas and access to entry into the USA changed. Even from friendly countries such as the UK. There is no way to determine if your visa violations will impact your new visa efforts in their own right, and/or the post-9/11 security requirements may be retroactively applied to your visa violations. A worst case scenario can range from being denied to return to the USA for a period of time all the way to a permanent entry ban (and possibly having your name on the no fly list). Keep this in mind … > [@](#): > > You will qualify for travel under the Visa Waiver Program (VWP) if you are a citizen of the **United Kingdom** , Andorra, Australia, Austria, Belgium Brunei, Denmark, Finland, France, Germany, Iceland, Ireland, Italy, Japan, Liechtenstein, Luxembourg, Monaco, the Netherlands, New Zealand, Norway, Portugal, San Marino, Singapore, Slovenia, Spain, Sweden, or Switzerland: > > – snip – > [ul] > [li]is not ineligible to receive a visa under U.S. visa law. Travelers who have been arrested, even if the arrest did not result in a criminal conviction, those with criminal records, (the Rehabilitation of Offenders Act does not apply to U.S. visa law), certain serious communicable illnesses, those who have been refused admission into, or have been deported from, the United States, or **have previously overstayed on the VWP** \*\* are not eligible to travel visa free under the Visa Waiver Program\*\*. [Please follow this link for further information](http://london.usembassy.gov/add_req.html);[/li][/ul] (Bolding mine.) [http://london.usembassy.gov/vwp3.html](http://london.usembassy.gov/vwp3.html) Many would-be travelers are seriously naive to the lengths that governments protect their borders and their interests. Never, ever lie when it comes to passports, visas and international travel. Like governments share traveler data among themselves. So a possible visa violation when you last visited to the USA from the UK can hamper your ability to visit, for example, Australia or New Zealand. And in this post-9/11 era, many do not get a second chance at redemption for future travel. ---
**Author:** ![md2000](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/73ab20/32.png) [@md2000](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/md2000)\ **Post date:** [March 8, 2013, 10:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-i-need-a-visa-to-visit-the-us/652413/11 "2013-03-08T22:02:14Z")
Remember, your prominent passport infomation is name (and maiden name) date of birth, and place of birth -citizenship too, but of course you can have multiple citizenships. My educated guess is that all their information is tied to that data; if you match someone else of interest, and all that data matches (how often does that happen?) then they will take a closer look. The question is - do they know you overstayed your visa? If so, you bad boy, no can visit… at least not without sorting out the details with the embassy first. The next question is - state of marriage? If they suspect you are non-green-carded non-citizen who might be returning to pick up where you left off with your squeeze-du-jour, and so possibly overstay (even if they don’t know about the other overstay) they may refuse you entry unless you can show you are definitely going home. (Can they tell you overstayed by the date of marriage vs. expiry date of last visa? Some Border Patrol are capable of simple math) you basically have two choices: - show up as if you are innocent and see if you get turned back, possibly lose opportunity to ever visit again without massive amount of paperwork (once you’ve been denied entry) - ask questions at embassy that alert them to your issues, then possibly get denied entry. The first option could cost a lot more; the second option saves a risk of wasted expensive return trip and costs, but possibly runs a greater risk of being denied entry. ---
**Author:** ![Giles](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/giles/32/60_2.png) [@Giles](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Giles)\ **Post date:** [March 8, 2013, 10:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-i-need-a-visa-to-visit-the-us/652413/12 "2013-03-08T22:29:22Z")
> [@md2000](#): > > … The question is - do they know you overstayed your visa? If so, you bad boy, no can visit… at least not without sorting out the details with the embassy first. … When you enter the US on the visa waiver program, or otherwise as a short-term visitor, a form is attached to your passport. When you leave the U.S. (with a few exceptions, like a visit to Canada when you are going to return to the US), you should hand the form in (to the airline, to US immigration if you are entering Mexico, or to Canadian immigration if you are entering Canada). They then cross-check those forms against their records, so if you don’t hand the form in, they think yo have over-stayed. Presumably the OP handed in his/her form when leaving the US, and when the form arrived at the central processing office, the US immigration record for the OP got a little notation like “left the US x months after expiry of visa waiver – do not re-admit without visa.” ---
**Author:** ![Siam\_Sam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/d78d45/32.png) [@Siam\_Sam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Siam_Sam)\ **Post date:** [March 9, 2013, 4:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-i-need-a-visa-to-visit-the-us/652413/13 "2013-03-09T04:27:48Z")
I would come clean and try to explain my overstay. If you lie and they find out about it, then you will never, ever get a visa again for the rest of your life, that is 100% for sure. Hopefully, the circumstances behind your overstay were not too damning. ---
**Author:** ![Sunspace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sunspace/32/1250_2.png) [@Sunspace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sunspace)\ **Post date:** [March 9, 2013, 4:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-i-need-a-visa-to-visit-the-us/652413/14 "2013-03-09T04:34:21Z")
I’ve heard of people getting turned back at borders now because of thirty-year-old half-forgotten convictions for things like smoking pot. They DO remember. ---
**Author:** ![fifty-six](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/5daacb/32.png) [@fifty-six](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/fifty-six)\ **Post date:** [March 9, 2013, 7:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-i-need-a-visa-to-visit-the-us/652413/15 "2013-03-09T07:51:05Z")
> [@Sunspace](#): > > I’ve heard of people getting turned back at borders now because of thirty-year-old half-forgotten convictions for things like smoking pot. > > They DO remember. Is this becoming standard or just a few unusual cases? ---
**Author:** ![tavalla](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tavalla/32/89_2.png) [@tavalla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tavalla)\ **Post date:** [March 9, 2013, 10:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-i-need-a-visa-to-visit-the-us/652413/16 "2013-03-09T10:55:01Z")
> [@Giles](#): > > When you enter the US on the visa waiver program, or otherwise as a short-term visitor, a form is attached to your passport. When you leave the U.S. (with a few exceptions, like a visit to Canada when you are going to return to the US), you should hand the form in (to the airline, to US immigration if you are entering Mexico, or to Canadian immigration if you are entering Canada). Not any more–it’s all electronic now. I visited the US (coming from Australia) under the visa waiver program in Decembeerre just gone: I completed the ESTA authorization a few weeks ahead, and that was petty much it, not even the old green visa waiver form to be filled in on the plane, just the customs declaration that everyone has to fill in. To the OP, just because you have a new passport with a new passport number on it, that doesn’t wipe out your past records. New passports refer to old ones. ---
**Author:** ![Eva\_Luna](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/e495f1/32.png) [@Eva\_Luna](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Eva_Luna)\ **Post date:** [March 9, 2013, 2:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-i-need-a-visa-to-visit-the-us/652413/17 "2013-03-09T14:52:01Z")
> [@Giles](#): > > When you enter the US on the visa waiver program, or otherwise as a short-term visitor, a form is attached to your passport. When you leave the U.S. (with a few exceptions, like a visit to Canada when you are going to return to the US), you should hand the form in (to the airline, to US immigration if you are entering Mexico, or to Canadian immigration if you are entering Canada). They then cross-check those forms against their records, so if you don’t hand the form in, they think yo have over-stayed. Presumably the OP handed in his/her form when leaving the US, and when the form arrived at the central processing office, the US immigration record for the OP got a little notation like “left the US x months after expiry of visa waiver – do not re-admit without visa.” This. Apply for a visa. Chances are quite good that they will figure out that you overstayed previously. When you enter the U.S. on teh Visa Waiver, you are specifically giving up your right to hearing before a judge. If they figure out that you overstayed previously, they may very well just put you back to the UK on the same plane. If you think they won’t catch you: let me tell you a story of a friend of mine. His dad is South African and his mom is German, and he hads both passports. When he was in high school, he came with his dad to the U.S. - his dad got a job as a visiting professor (which is a long story). Dad married a U.S. citizen, and got a conditional green card, valid for 2 years, as did my friend. By the time the 2 years were up, Dad was divorced, and my friend was about to turn 18 and graduate high school. Dad ended up having to do a new green card based on his job (he was tenure-track by then, and there was no way to renew the green card based on what had ben a valid marriage), but didn’t include my friend on that because he wanted to go back to South Africa for college anyway. So my friend left, no muss, no fuss. Fast-forward a few years to the early 1990s, and I am working for Immigration Court. I look down on the desk of a co-worker as she is entering new cases in the computer, and see a deportation case initiation document for my friend, who has by this point been gone for something lke 5 years. I go to the judge in a panic, and he says he can’t just terminate the case because I say he’s gone, and I say of course. He asks what will probably happen if the case moves forward, and I say probably my friend’s dad will show up and explain what happened, and he says he would then give the dad some time to prove his son left. So I figured that wouldn’t be any problem, and I shouldn’t worry, but a few months later I check the computer again and my friend has been ordered deported in absentia for not showing up. I pull the file, and see that someone else has signed the certified mail receipt for the case initiation document, but obviously not him because his name is spelled wrong. As it turns out, Dad had moved, and someone else must have signed for the letter and never told anyone. So I pass along this info to my friend, and he does nothing about it, because he doesn’t care about coming to the U.S. anyway. Until 15 or so years later, he decides he wants to come see his dad, who still lives here. I warn him that he really needs to clear this all up, and he is dubious at first because it’s really going to be a PITA, and can’t he just come on his German passport on the Visa Waiver and nobody will figure it out? He is living in Taiwan by this point, and his dad and I strong-arm him, and send him affidavits with the whole crazy story and my government personnel docs to show that I was actually working for Immigration Court at that time, and he goes to the American Institute in Taiwan to apply for a visa. The visa officer luckily listens to the whole story, decides it’s too crazy not to be true, and issues him a visa. So he arrives in the U.S., they scan his passport at Immigration, and the first thing the officer says is “you’ve been here before, haven’t you” The whole immigration history pops up on the computer screen. They let him in uneventfully after that. So dude, don’t assume they won’t figure out what’s what. Eva Luna, Immigration Paralegal (and former interpreter, Office of the Immigration Judge) ---
**Author:** ![eclectic\_wench](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/ac91a4/32.png) [@eclectic\_wench](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eclectic_wench)\ **Post date:** [March 9, 2013, 3:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-i-need-a-visa-to-visit-the-us/652413/18 "2013-03-09T15:10:19Z")
Why on earth would renewing your passport make a difference? You’re the same guy. What use would a passport be if you counted as a new person every few years? Do the visa. A guy I know overstayed a work visa by like a day, years ago, because he was so hungover he missed his flight. A few years later, he’s going _to the Oscars_ - not just some holiday, the \*Oscars _- and he figures he’ll just do the visa waiver because that extra day won’t be a big deal, right? Wrong. He gets off the plane in LA, they march him off in handcuffs_ and stick him on the next flight home. \*This part may be an exaggeration, I heard the story second-hand ---
**Author:** ![Eva\_Luna](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/e495f1/32.png) [@Eva\_Luna](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Eva_Luna)\ **Post date:** [March 9, 2013, 11:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-i-need-a-visa-to-visit-the-us/652413/19 "2013-03-09T23:06:51Z")
> [@eclectic\_wench](#): > > they march him off in handcuffs\* and stick him on the next flight home. > \*This part may be an exaggeration, I heard the story second-hand Probably not. I was at O’Hare once when it happened. They wouldn’t even let the guy talk to the girlfriend he had come to see first - he was held in detention until the next available flight back. ---
**Author:** ![robert\_columbia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e79b87/32.png) [@robert\_columbia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/robert_columbia)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2013, 6:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-i-need-a-visa-to-visit-the-us/652413/20 "2013-03-10T06:17:40Z")
> [@Bones\_Daley](#): > > …and I am assuming that on the new passport there will be no record of my previous visits to the US… Don’t count on it! [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-i-need-a-visa-to-visit-the-us/652413.md?page=2)