# Do I need to give up my US citizenship? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [October 11, 2004, 8:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-i-need-to-give-up-my-us-citizenship/268707 "2004-10-11T20:42:15Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![GomiBoy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/b2d939/32.png) [@GomiBoy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GomiBoy)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2004, 8:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-i-need-to-give-up-my-us-citizenship/268707/1 "2004-10-11T20:42:15Z")
3 years ago, I moved to England, and now share a house with my Australian girlfriend in London. In January, I can apply for permanent permission to remain, meaning I no longer need a work visa to be legally eligible to work in the UK. I have 2 years left on my work visa. I think this is unlimited, as well, so I can effectively stay as long as I want, but cannot vote or use some public services. After 4 years, I can apply to be a British Citizen (meaning 1 year from January). Now here’s the catch - according to the State Department web site, I have to surrender my US citizenship in order to become citizen of another country. Is this true? Does anyone understand this area of US Law? ---
**Author:** ![Whack-a-Mole](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/whack-a-mole/32/141_2.png) [@Whack-a-Mole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Whack-a-Mole)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2004, 9:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-i-need-to-give-up-my-us-citizenship/268707/2 "2004-10-11T21:43:56Z")
> [@GomiBoy](#): > > Now here’s the catch - according to the State Department web site, I have to surrender my US citizenship in order to become citizen of another country. > > Is this true? Does anyone understand this area of US Law? I am pretty certain that the US cannot force you to give up your citizenship under any circumstances. > [@](#): > > A U.S. citizen may acquire foreign citizenship by marriage, or a person naturalized as a U.S. citizen may not lose the citizenship of the country of birth.U.S. law does not mention dual nationality or require a person to choose one citizenship or another. Also, a person who is automatically granted another citizenship does not risk losing U.S. citizenship. However, a person who acquires a foreign citizenship by applying for it may lose U.S. citizenship. In order to lose U.S. citizenship, the law requires that the person must apply for the foreign citizenship voluntarily, by free choice, \*\*and with the intention to give up U.S. citizenship. > > SOURCE: [US Department of State](http://travel.state.gov/law/dualnationality.html) > (highlighting mine) That said the US frowns on it and would rather you just pick one over the other (as they mention if you read further through link). Also, it may be that the country you seek citizenship in requires you to renounce your prior citizenship. I have no clue if Great Britain has such a requirement but note that the US does (or at least did…I think that may have changed too). You can get into all sorts of weird things with citizenship. For instance even when the US required renunciation of previous citizenship there was no guarantee the other country recognized it. It has happened where a US citizen travelled to a foreign country and they got stuck there because that country felt they were a citizen and had some obligations to them. It did not matter to them what you thought you were…their laws said you were their citizen. It is for this reason, at least partly, that the US thinks dual citizenship is a bad idea. ---
**Author:** ![Whack-a-Mole](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/whack-a-mole/32/141_2.png) [@Whack-a-Mole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Whack-a-Mole)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2004, 9:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-i-need-to-give-up-my-us-citizenship/268707/3 "2004-10-11T21:50:33Z")
Sorry I screwed up the highlighting in my quote above. It was supposed to be: “In order to lose U.S. citizenship, the law requires that the person must apply for the foreign citizenship voluntarily, by free choice, **and with the intention to give up U.S. citizenship**.” The relevant part here is you have to essentially prove to the US you intend to give up citizenship (they mention even actions or statements can be enough). However, if you are clear to them you intend to keep US citizenship then you get to keep it no matter how much they might wish otherwise. ---
**Author:** ![Spavined\_Gelding](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/958977/32.png) [@Spavined\_Gelding](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spavined_Gelding)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2004, 10:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-i-need-to-give-up-my-us-citizenship/268707/4 "2004-10-11T22:07:12Z")
I have nothing to ad to this thread except an anecdote. Back in the middle of the Vietnamese War the word got out among a number of stockade prisoners at a widely detested mid-western army post that if a prisoner denounced his US citizenship the US, and specifically its army, lost the power to confine him for criminal offenses of which he had been convicted. Because there was such a clamor among the inmates the legal officers who serviced the stockade set up a regular little litany for renouncing all allegiance to the US and surrender of citizenship. This went on every Wednesday afternoon for some months until the prisoners started bitching that no one was paying any attention to their claims of immunity from incarceration because they were no longer US citizens. This came to the attention of the provost-marshall and to the post chief of staff who in turn passed the word that it was cruel, almost sadistic, to deceive the credulous in tis manner and that the “pledge of un-allegiance” ceremonies were to stop forthwith or heads would roll. ---
**Author:** ![Whack-a-Mole](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/whack-a-mole/32/141_2.png) [@Whack-a-Mole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Whack-a-Mole)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2004, 10:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-i-need-to-give-up-my-us-citizenship/268707/5 "2004-10-11T22:23:01Z")
Don’t forget that is not just what the US says about this. You need to check and see what Great Britain’s policy on dual citizenship is as well. Given that the US and GB are pretty close in terms of laws and outlook as well as considering GB’s old days as a global empire I suspect they are tolerant of dual citizenship but that is just a guess. You definitely need to check-up on that. ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2004, 1:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-i-need-to-give-up-my-us-citizenship/268707/6 "2004-10-12T01:15:30Z")
[The Perfect Master’s take on dual citizenship](http://www.straightdope.com/classics/a4_229.html) > [@](#): > > Janet and my assistant little Ed exchanged a few notes about this. We tried to explain that the U.S. tolerates dual citizenship but doesn’t officially recognize it. Janet found this policy unacceptably ambiguous and blamed us for allowing it to persist. You’ve probably met people like this. > > Anyway, we went back and confirmed the following: > > (1) Cecil was of course right. Persons with dual citizenship are encouraged but not required to choose one over the other on reaching adulthood. Troubled by this, Janet? Deal with it. ---
**Author:** ![Duckster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/duckster/32/1244_2.png) [@Duckster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Duckster)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2004, 1:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-i-need-to-give-up-my-us-citizenship/268707/7 "2004-10-12T01:49:59Z")
> [@GomiBoy](#): > > Now here’s the catch - according to the State Department web site, I have to surrender my US citizenship in order to become citizen of another country. No you don’t. See [Dual Citizenship FAQ](http://www.richw.org/dualcit/) ---
**Author:** ![Whack-a-Mole](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/whack-a-mole/32/141_2.png) [@Whack-a-Mole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Whack-a-Mole)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2004, 2:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-i-need-to-give-up-my-us-citizenship/268707/8 "2004-10-12T02:17:55Z")
Is it possible to have no citizenship anywhere? If I am in, say, Great Britain and go to the US Embassy and renounce my citizenship am I now countryless? Or is there something in there that makes certain you are a citizen of somewhere (or will be very soon) before letting you undo your current citizenship? I seem to recall a story of some guy stuck in Charles de Gaulle airport in Paris in a situation like this. IIRC he was countryless and no one would take him. The French would not let him leave the airport as he didn’t have a visa to enter (or something like that) so he was stuck. Presumably he lived there for years and practically became a tourist attraction. Sounds crazy I know but I am near certain it was something like this. Anyone know what I am talking about or do I need to see a shrink? ---
**Author:** ![Whack-a-Mole](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/whack-a-mole/32/141_2.png) [@Whack-a-Mole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Whack-a-Mole)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2004, 2:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-i-need-to-give-up-my-us-citizenship/268707/9 "2004-10-12T02:25:01Z")
> [@Whack-a-Mole](#): > > I seem to recall a story of some guy stuck in Charles de Gaulle airport in Paris in a situation like this. IIRC he was countryless and no one would take him. Found it and answered my own question. Fortunately looks like I am not crazy. The movie The Terminal with Tom Hanks was loosely based off of this guy. > [@](#): > > Claim: A man has been living at a Paris airport since 1988. > > Status: True. > > Origins: What > follows is one representative newspaper account of the strange story of Merhan Karimi Nasseri, a man without country, trapped by his lack of papers in Charles De Gaulle Airport in Paris, France, since 26 August 1988: > > _\_ > > As of the summer of 2004, Nasseri is still living in the airport. He does not lack for money — Dreamworks paid him a rumored $250,000 for the rights to his story. > > SOURCE: [Snopes: Stranded at the Airport](http://www.snopes.com/travel/airline/airport.htm) ---
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2004, 2:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-i-need-to-give-up-my-us-citizenship/268707/10 "2004-10-12T02:25:02Z")
> [@Whack-a-Mole](#): > > Is it possible to have no citizenship anywhere? > > If I am in, say, Great Britain and go to the US Embassy and renounce my citizenship am I now countryless? Or is there something in there that makes certain you are a citizen of somewhere (or will be very soon) before letting you undo your current citizenship? It’s theoretically possible, but they will make it as difficult as possible for you to carry through with it so as not to have you stuck in an airport or something. ---
**Author:** ![Hemlock](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/c5a1d2/32.png) [@Hemlock](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hemlock)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2004, 7:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-i-need-to-give-up-my-us-citizenship/268707/11 "2004-10-12T07:06:10Z")
The UK recognizes dual citizenship, so there’s no problem. I have a relative with both passports. He travels to the US with the US one and to the UK with the UK one. Very convenient. The only possible disadvantage of keeping US citizenship is the US govt’s barbaric practice of taxing citizens who live overseas. For people on average salaries, it doesn’t make a difference (Uncle Sam lets you offset the foreign tax against the US one), but for high earners it can theoretically make sense to renounce US citizenship (I know of one person who did it). ---
**Author:** ![pyrrthon1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/2acd7d/32.png) [@pyrrthon1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pyrrthon1)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2004, 8:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-i-need-to-give-up-my-us-citizenship/268707/12 "2004-10-12T08:05:40Z")
I think talking to a lawyer would be the best at this point. ---
**Author:** ![GomiBoy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/b2d939/32.png) [@GomiBoy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GomiBoy)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2004, 8:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-i-need-to-give-up-my-us-citizenship/268707/13 "2004-10-12T08:53:40Z")
Thanks, all, I will speak with both British and US lawyers before I make a decision… the indefinite right to remain means I can enter and leave freely, and to be honest I can’t imagine staying here forever. A more realistic possibility is emigrating to Australia with my girlfriend in 3-4 years, in which case a British passport is a bit easier to get than an Australian one without ancestry. Or else I might have to just convince her to marry me first 🙂 Thanks ---
**Author:** ![fortytwo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/f9ae1b/32.png) [@fortytwo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/fortytwo)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2004, 10:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-i-need-to-give-up-my-us-citizenship/268707/14 "2004-10-12T10:43:55Z")
The days are long gone when you could just arrive in another country and settle. I’m old enough to remember us Brits being encouraged to emigrate to Australia. We had to pay £10 (I think) which entitled you to an assisted passage out there. Of course go back a bit further and we could get out there for nothing. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Giles](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/giles/32/60_2.png) [@Giles](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Giles)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2004, 12:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-i-need-to-give-up-my-us-citizenship/268707/15 "2004-10-12T12:04:24Z")
> [@GomiBoy](#): > > Thanks, all, > > I will speak with both British and US lawyers before I make a decision… the indefinite right to remain means I can enter and leave freely, and to be honest I can’t imagine staying here forever. A more realistic possibility is emigrating to Australia with my girlfriend in 3-4 years, in which case a British passport is a bit easier to get than an Australian one without ancestry. > > Or else I might have to just convince her to marry me first 🙂 > > Thanks Australia does not discriminate on grounds of citizenship when it comes to migrating to Australia, so being a UK citizen would not help you compared with being a US citizen, or being the citizen of any other country. (There is one exception to this: New Zealand citizens can migrate to Australia very easily. However, it’s not that easy to migrate to NZ either). ---
**Author:** ![Derleth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b9e5f3/32.png) [@Derleth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Derleth)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2004, 1:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-i-need-to-give-up-my-us-citizenship/268707/16 "2004-10-12T13:31:22Z")
> [@Vetch](#): > > Of course go back a bit further and we could get out there for nothing. 🙂 Was your justice system ever that bad? 😛 ---
**Author:** ![GomiBoy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/b2d939/32.png) [@GomiBoy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GomiBoy)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2004, 2:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-i-need-to-give-up-my-us-citizenship/268707/17 "2004-10-12T14:16:21Z")
> [@Giles](#): > > Australia does not discriminate on grounds of citizenship when it comes to migrating to Australia, so being a UK citizen would not help you compared with being a US citizen, or being the citizen of any other country. (There is one exception to this: New Zealand citizens can migrate to Australia very easily. However, it’s not that easy to migrate to NZ either). Well, she is Australian… I think we qualify for common-law by that time, even if we’re not married… ---
**Author:** ![Giles](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/giles/32/60_2.png) [@Giles](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Giles)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2004, 2:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-i-need-to-give-up-my-us-citizenship/268707/18 "2004-10-12T14:41:09Z")
> [@GomiBoy](#): > > Well, she is Australian… I think we qualify for common-law by that time, even if we’re not married… Well, that is relevant, of course! However, strictly speaking, common-law marriage is not recognised in Australian law. You may qualify as being in a de facto relationship. which is much the same thing under a different name. ---
**Author:** ![GomiBoy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/b2d939/32.png) [@GomiBoy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GomiBoy)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2004, 2:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-i-need-to-give-up-my-us-citizenship/268707/19 "2004-10-12T14:42:47Z")
> [@Giles](#): > > Well, that is relevant, of course! However, strictly speaking, common-law marriage is not recognised in Australian law. You may qualify as being in a de facto relationship. which is much the same thing under a different name. I have a year or two to figure this out, so no big rush. Thanks for the information, though. ---
**Author:** ![ruadh](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/d2c977/32.png) [@ruadh](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ruadh)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2004, 6:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-i-need-to-give-up-my-us-citizenship/268707/20 "2004-10-12T18:57:04Z")
> [@Hemlock](#): > > The only possible disadvantage of keeping US citizenship is the US govt’s barbaric practice of taxing citizens who live overseas. For people on average salaries, it doesn’t make a difference (Uncle Sam lets you offset the foreign tax against the US one), but for high earners it can theoretically make sense to renounce US citizenship (I know of one person who did it). “Barbaric” is a matter of opinion. Personally, I think it’s sensible that someone can’t earn millions of dollars off the US public and then get out of paying US taxes by declaring residency on some Caribbean island. It’s not true that “Uncle Sam lets you offset the foreign tax against the US one”. Uncle Sam doesn’t enquire into what taxes you’re paying to your country of residence. What he does do is only tax the income you earn in that country above approximately $80,000 per year. And if you renounce your citizenship in order to get out of paying those taxes, he’ll still bill you for them for the next ten years (although I’m not sure exactly how he’d be able to collect it from defaulters). [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-i-need-to-give-up-my-us-citizenship/268707.md?page=2)