# Do I really need to get my lug nuts tightened? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [February 28, 2011, 6:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-i-really-need-to-get-my-lug-nuts-tightened/572951 "2011-02-28T18:46:53Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Ostrya](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/35a633/32.png) [@Ostrya](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ostrya)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2011, 1:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-i-really-need-to-get-my-lug-nuts-tightened/572951/21 "2011-03-01T01:28:12Z")
> [@](#): > > Do I really need to get my lug nuts tightened? Is that what you and Jimbo are calling it now? 😉 ---
**Author:** ![thelabdude](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/dc4da7/32.png) [@thelabdude](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/thelabdude)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2011, 2:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-i-really-need-to-get-my-lug-nuts-tightened/572951/22 "2011-03-01T02:53:58Z")
> [@GreasyJack](#): > > I won’t disagree that rotating is usually preferable, but it’s debatable whether it’s really a safety issue. > > Depending on the car and what kind of driving you do, it can be perfectly safe not to rotate. If you’re doing mostly highway driving and your car is properly aligned, you don’t get a lot of edge wear and so the only effect of not rotating is that the fronts wear out faster than the backs. Having more tread on the backs is not a problem, so as long as you move the backs forward when you buy two new tires, not rotating is perfectly safe. The overall improvement in tread life is also debatable, but it’s clearly not much and so if you have to pay for your rotations, you will usually pay more than you’ll save on rubber. > > BMW recommends against rotating on all their cars, including their less fancy cars with non-staggered, non-directional tires and even including the Mini Cooper which isn’t all that different from any other front wheel drive car. I’m not sure I follow their reasoning that the tires “get used to” where they are, but BMW’s generally well thought of engineers think leaving the tires where they are is not only safe but better for performance. At any rate I certainly haven’t heard of any epidemics of BMW and Mini crashes caused by uneven tire wear. > > But like I said earlier, it’s a moot debate since practically every reputable tire dealer does free rotations these days. Interesting. Not that I regard BMW as the fount of all knowledge. I have been following this for some time: Buy a new car. Run it until the front tires are shot. Trash them. Move the backs to the front. Buy 2 new tires for the back. This way I always have good tires on the back and I avoid the work or trusting the tire store personal. Oh, back on topic, well put Magiver. ---
**Author:** ![Al\_Bundy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e79b87/32.png) [@Al\_Bundy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Al_Bundy)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2011, 3:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-i-really-need-to-get-my-lug-nuts-tightened/572951/23 "2011-03-01T03:09:48Z")
I’d really rather put lug nuts on myself than have a shop over tighten them with a gun. I have good equipment though to do it right. In fact, I use a torque wrench and go around twice or more using a criss-cross sequence that keeps everything even. This can prevent warping of brake rotors. I like to see 100# on my torque wrench. It’s a truck so I could go much higher. On a sub compact, I’d be comfortable with 80# of torque. Without the torque wrench, I could estimate these values very closely. With a short wrench and weak arms, you are scaring me that you might not get them tight enough. Maybe get a better wrench and try again. I doubt whether you are capable of over tightening them. I carry a three foot breaker bar for those cases where a nut has to come off whether it breaks the stud or not. I have found that it can take over 200# to actually break a stud. You are never going to do that with a 12" wrench. PS. If I’m seeing over 140# or so on my torque wrench trying to loosen somebody’s overtightened lug nuts, I warn them that they could break and the damage is on them, not me. Actually, that can happen when the last person cross-threaded the nut and it is not coming off without breaking the stud. (More than anybody needed to hear here.) ---
**Author:** ![wbeaty](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/439d5e/32.png) [@wbeaty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wbeaty)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2011, 7:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-i-really-need-to-get-my-lug-nuts-tightened/572951/24 "2011-03-01T07:20:27Z")
Do I really need my oil changed? Pipes cleaned? Plumbing fixed? Chimney swept? Clock wound? Ashes hauled? Leather stretched? Do I really need my lug nuts tightened? Uh huhu! You said “tightened.” And remember to line them up on 6deg phase delay from radial orientation to produce Nonstroboscopic Reverse Pseudowagonwheel effect! ---
**Author:** ![MikeG](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mikeg/32/4329_2.png) [@MikeG](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MikeG)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2011, 1:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-i-really-need-to-get-my-lug-nuts-tightened/572951/25 "2011-03-01T13:29:56Z")
I sell the torque sticks shown above but with a caveat. They are rated for use with 250 ft/lb impact wrenches, most modern wrenches are much stronger. My 1/2" gun, the MG725 has 1190 ft/lbs bolt breakaway torque and runs 810 ft/lbs all day long! This can result in a significantly overtightened lug nut. I see a direct correlation on my route; the “good” shops require their techs to use a torque wrench on every single lug nut, period. That’s not to say that shops that use the guns aren’t good, but the few that are widely known as the best places to take your cars to. ---
**Author:** ![Lust4Life](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/ecc23a/32.png) [@Lust4Life](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lust4Life)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2011, 6:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-i-really-need-to-get-my-lug-nuts-tightened/572951/26 "2011-03-01T18:23:57Z")
Sounds painful,haven’t they got some sort of medication for it instead ? I’m dreadfully sorry,I do apologise, I’ll get my coat… ---
**Author:** ![Leaffan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/leaffan/32/299_2.png) [@Leaffan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Leaffan)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2011, 6:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-i-really-need-to-get-my-lug-nuts-tightened/572951/27 "2011-03-01T18:50:20Z")
I’ve been changing brake pads and changing seasonal tires for 30+ years using a tire iron and have never had any issues. Actually, the only time I have had an issue (broke 2 studs) was trying to remove a wheel installed by a garage that over-torqued the bastards. I will be putting the all season tires back on two vehicles in a month or so, in my driveway. Really, all you need to do is snug up the nut and then tighten it using normal arm strength. The taper on the nut is enough to keep it from coming loose. Gary has me worried about my wife’s alloy wheels now though… Is it really that different than steel? ---
**Author:** ![Gary\_T](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/3ec8ea/32.png) [@Gary\_T](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gary_T)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2011, 7:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-i-really-need-to-get-my-lug-nuts-tightened/572951/28 "2011-03-01T19:38:28Z")
> [@Leaffan](#): > > Gary has me worried about my wife’s alloy wheels now though… Is it really that different than steel? Practically speaking, I think the main difference is in using an impact wrench. I think steel has a little more “give” than the alloy, and can tolerate some variation in the force applied. The alloy wheels are touchier about that, and we have seen some problems in the field. While an impact can work fine on steel wheels (with care – I use my Snap-On MG725 on its lowest setting and watch the turning of the nut), experience has shown that’s it’s way too easy to be off using one on the alloy wheels. The really conscientious shops consistently torque them. While I do use my torque wrench on alloy wheels (no reason not to), I don’t have qualms about hand-tightening them without it. I have a feel developed over a 35+ year career doing this. I suspect you’ve developed a similar feel. ---
**Author:** ![thelabdude](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/dc4da7/32.png) [@thelabdude](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/thelabdude)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2011, 7:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-i-really-need-to-get-my-lug-nuts-tightened/572951/29 "2011-03-01T19:41:55Z")
I had already switched to antisieze and a torque wrench before having alloy wheels. I have seen signs in shops saying they are are not responsible for damage to the alloy wheels. I haven’t had any bad experience with them, but then I am careful and limit who else messes with my nuts. ---
**Author:** ![Cat\_Whisperer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cat_whisperer/32/4839_2.png) [@Cat\_Whisperer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cat_Whisperer)\ **Post date:** [March 2, 2011, 2:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-i-really-need-to-get-my-lug-nuts-tightened/572951/30 "2011-03-02T02:59:08Z")
> [@md2000](#): > > OTOH, my wife’s cusin had to call the tow truck last month because her wheel fell off on the minivan - about 2 months after Wal-Mart put on the winter tires. She never checked the nuts Of course, Walmart has the “please check after…” disclaimer. But presumably(?) they used the air-hammer torque wrench at what should have been a correct setting, and still… scrrrraaaaape-thump. OTOH, just because the tool is set correctly does not mean the tool using it handled it correctly. Great - I went to Wal\*Mart and had the 15 year old working there torque them. (It was free by the way.) > [@the lone cashew](#): > > Is that what you and Jimbo are calling it now? > > 😉 Heh heh. > [@thelabdude](#): > > \ I am careful and limit who else messes with my nuts. Heh heh. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![thelabdude](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/dc4da7/32.png) [@thelabdude](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/thelabdude)\ **Post date:** [March 2, 2011, 3:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-i-really-need-to-get-my-lug-nuts-tightened/572951/31 "2011-03-02T03:16:46Z")
Please keep snipping away from my nuts. ---
**Author:** ![Cat\_Whisperer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cat_whisperer/32/4839_2.png) [@Cat\_Whisperer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cat_Whisperer)\ **Post date:** [March 2, 2011, 4:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-i-really-need-to-get-my-lug-nuts-tightened/572951/32 "2011-03-02T04:20:49Z")
> [@thelabdude](#): > > \my nuts.\ Message board vasectomy! ---
**Author:** ![gaffa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e68b1a/32.png) [@gaffa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gaffa)\ **Post date:** [March 2, 2011, 4:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-i-really-need-to-get-my-lug-nuts-tightened/572951/33 "2011-03-02T04:32:05Z")
> [@ducati](#): > > That’s one reason we give our Snap-On guy scads of money for something like [this](http://tinyurl.com/4u7nauc). > A torque wrench works, but these are color-coded to specific cars and wheels, and you don’t have to set and unset them when you’re finished. Pretty! ---
**Author:** ![Nunzio\_Tavulari](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/b9bd4f/32.png) [@Nunzio\_Tavulari](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nunzio_Tavulari)\ **Post date:** [March 2, 2011, 8:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-i-really-need-to-get-my-lug-nuts-tightened/572951/34 "2011-03-02T20:01:24Z")
The proper torque specification for lug nuts is typically 70 to 80 foot-pounds. that number is surprisingly easy to reach. Even for someone with girly arms. You apply more torque getting jar lids off. For that reason, the short arms of the factory tire iron is surprisingly very good because it makes it hard to over-torque the nut and damage your wheels/brakes. I over-torqued wheels for many. many years without damaging anything that I’m aware of, so it’s not often disastrous. However, you’ll regret your prior effort when you need to take that wheel off on a dark, rainy night a year in the future. Harbor Freight sells torque wrenches very cheaply and they are as accurate as what you’d pay Sears four times as much for. They are impractical to keep in your car because most are about 18-20 inches long and they quickly go out of calibration when bouncing around in a car’s trunk. ---
**Author:** ![misterW](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f1d935/32.png) [@misterW](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/misterW)\ **Post date:** [March 4, 2011, 3:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-i-really-need-to-get-my-lug-nuts-tightened/572951/35 "2011-03-04T03:43:00Z")
I have never measured the torque for lug nuts. I have never had a problem with simply using a tire iron. I could not imagine taking your car to a mechanic for this. ---
**Author:** ![thelabdude](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/dc4da7/32.png) [@thelabdude](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/thelabdude)\ **Post date:** [March 4, 2011, 4:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-i-really-need-to-get-my-lug-nuts-tightened/572951/36 "2011-03-04T04:26:39Z")
I think if you check, you will find more like 100 poundfeet. ---
**Author:** ![Gary\_T](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/3ec8ea/32.png) [@Gary\_T](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gary_T)\ **Post date:** [March 4, 2011, 5:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-i-really-need-to-get-my-lug-nuts-tightened/572951/37 "2011-03-04T05:06:27Z")
> [@Nunzio\_Tavulari](#): > > The proper torque specification for lug nuts is typically 70 to 80 foot-pounds. > [@thelabdude](#): > > I think if you check, you will find more like 100 poundfeet. The proper torque spec varies with type and size of vehicle. Each of the figures mentioned are right for some vehicles but certainly not right for all. ---
**Author:** ![Rick](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/9f8e36/32.png) [@Rick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rick)\ **Post date:** [March 4, 2011, 5:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-i-really-need-to-get-my-lug-nuts-tightened/572951/38 "2011-03-04T05:58:11Z")
> [@Al\_Bundy](#): > > PS. If I’m seeing over 140# or so on my torque wrench trying to loosen somebody’s overtightened lug nuts, I warn them that they could break and the damage is on them, not me. Actually, that can happen when the last person cross-threaded the nut and it is not coming off without breaking the stud. (More than anybody needed to hear here.) The amount of torque to loosen a fastener has very little to do with how much torque was applied to that fastener when it was tightened. > [@MikeG](#): > > I sell the torque sticks shown above but with a caveat. They are rated for use with 250 ft/lb impact wrenches, most modern wrenches are much stronger. My 1/2" gun, the MG725 has 1190 ft/lbs bolt breakaway torque and runs 810 ft/lbs all day long! This can result in a significantly overtightened lug nut. I see a direct correlation on my route; the “good” shops require their techs to use a torque wrench on every single lug nut, period. That’s not to say that shops that use the guns aren’t good, but the few that are widely known as the best places to take your cars to. QFT yup. > [@Leaffan](#): > > Really, all you need to do is snug up the nut and then tighten it using normal arm strength. The taper on the nut is enough to keep it from coming loose. Not only wrong, but scary shit wrong. If the lugs are a bit loose, the movement of the wheel against the nut will cause the lug stud to fail. First one, then a second, then a third. Most I have ever seen is three failed studs out of 6. Another few blocks and that car would have been a tricycle. First time I saw this, I only replaced the two broken studs. Car came back with another broken stud, then 2 more. In other words, while only two studs had failed the rest were just waiting to fail and did so over the next week. Lessons learned: 1. Torque spec are there for a reason, you do not know more than the guy that designed the car and wrote the torque spec. 2. If you have a lug stud failure, replace all the studs the first time, you will save time and money in the long run. 3. No matter how much experience or smarts you think you have see #1 above. ---
**Author:** ![automagic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/a698b9/32.png) [@automagic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/automagic)\ **Post date:** [March 5, 2011, 5:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-i-really-need-to-get-my-lug-nuts-tightened/572951/39 "2011-03-05T05:25:44Z")
I work as a technician at a Toyota dealership and I torque wheels all day long. I usually just use my air gun to tighten wheel lug nuts and I have not gotten a complaint yet, except one. I had a car with aftermarket wheels and really oxidized lug studs which my gun was not powerful enough to torque properly. After getting yelled at by the customer I had to “re-torque” the lug nuts with my torque wrench to get it right. Unfortunately since my gun did not torque the wheels properly there was a wobble in the steering wheel at highway speeds. My point is, if you tighten your “lugs” by hand as tight as you can it should be good enough. Sometimes though there is sand or tiny rocks between the lugs and the wheel which will cause a tiny space between the lugs and the wheel causing your wheels to be come slightly loose, which makes it a good idea to “re-tighten” your wheels lug nuts after 30 or 40 miles. Generally though if there is no vibration in your car or shimmy on your steering wheel at highway speed you probably tightened your wheels enough. Please note that a vibration or shimmy in your steering wheel could also be caused my an improperly balanced wheel or a warped brake rotor. ---
**Author:** ![jackdavinci](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jackdavinci/32/3259_2.png) [@jackdavinci](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jackdavinci)\ **Post date:** [March 5, 2011, 10:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-i-really-need-to-get-my-lug-nuts-tightened/572951/40 "2011-03-05T22:54:41Z")
I just find it amusing how big a deal people are making of the precise amount of torque used to fasten lug nuts when all that’s keeping the wheel from flying off is a tiny little cotter pin. 😃 [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-i-really-need-to-get-my-lug-nuts-tightened/572951.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-i-really-need-to-get-my-lug-nuts-tightened/572951.md?page=3)