Do I sound angry to you too (probably mild)?

Gee, thanks, Hippy! It’s nice to know that someone read it at all - I often feel as if my posts are invisible, because I’m not exactly what you’d call a prominent poster. And I tend to go on. And on. And on. The guy who invented the subordinate clause rolls over in his grave every time I start to type.

I was just about to say that the more I think about it, the more I think it had nothing to do with *your * posting it at all, monstro. I think just the word interesting was probably sufficient to make some people assume you meant interesting in the “suspicious at best” sense.

Dammit, now we need a new word to mean interesting without the potential connotations. The problem is, you don’t have tone of voice to go by when you’re writing. I mean, when someone says “Isn’t that interesting?” in the insinuating way, you can tell by their tone of voice. But when it’s written, you can’t.

I think I reacted so defensively because just recently, there was a thread (I think it was the “tarbaby” thread) where the OP ranted against the “outrage” of the black community. Delving further, it became clear that the “community” was basically just one nutjob and that there was actually little “outrage”.

“Outrage” gets thrown about a lot, and to my sensitive ears it often gets hurled at black people registering a complaint about something. “Outrage” should be reserved for massive protests and angry denouncements. When it’s used to describe low-level reactions, it’s hard not to see it as a loaded term.

I wish black people didn’t give white people such a hard time, and I wish white people would stop being so defensive. I agree the difficulty with discussions about race isn’t just a white people’s problem. I have had plenty of online discussions with black people who’s knees are also jerky, and who are quick to see label someone with an ugly name just because opinions differ. So I’ve experienced it from both sides, and I can tell you it sucks regardless what position you’re standing in.

That’s why I’m reluctant to use charged language on the board. I may suspect someone of being a racist, but I tend to not call them that because then I become the bad guy. I’ve noticed that 9 times out of 10, when a Doper is being called a racist, the name-caller is usually self-identified as white. From where I stand, whites–especially conservatives–can use that word freely, without being called hypersensitive or over-reactionary–but a black person cannot. Not unless he or she wants to be on the computer all day, defending attacks. People need to lighten up.

I wish people could see how I truly am, then. Rarely do I get angry. In real life, I’m goofy and silly, always cracking a joke or laughing at something. I have two cats, and my hobbies include jewelry-making, reading and writing, and drawing. Yeah, I like to talk about race stuff, but I also like reality TV, playing my viola, and slogging around in the Everglades. I’ve never kept these things away from the board; I have mentioned these aspects of myself in numerous OPs and posts.

So if people peg me as an “angry black person”, then they are pegging quite wrong. I’m so NOT angry. I guess that why those comments hurt me so much.

But I do want to let you know that I appreciate you very much, Hippy. I think if there were more black posters on the board, those of us who are outspoken wouldn’t have to worry about being labeled unfairly.

Oh, and monstro? I think of you as a very non-angry, lovely poster. But I will admit to a certain mild anxiety level whenever I communicate with you (I think this is the first thread in which I’ve happened to speak directly to you, but when I’ve read something you’ve posted), because there’s always that lurking fear that you’re going to assume I’m a racist.

It’s a very sad development in our society. I think these days a lot of white people are afraid of a lot of black people, not because they think they’re going to be mugged or something, but because they have this ongoing guilt thing going on. But I don’t know how it could have been different. The fact of racism had to come out into the open eventually. I was a kid in the early sixties when the real societal changes were happening. In those days, the word for non-racist was ‘tolerant.’ I was just a little kid, and I remember my dad explaining to me that that was a bad term to use, because it implied that there was something that had to be tolerated. That was probably the beginning of the White Guilt thing for me - I had never considered the implications, barely knew what the word ‘tolerant’ meant in a general way.

Many of you are probably too young to remember, but this was the first time, really, that we started seeing anger from black folks. In those days, it was far more universally deserved; racism was still quite common and open, particularly in the south. The interesting thing is, the battle was won fairly quickly at the surface level - within ten years or so, it became totally socially unacceptable to be openly racist in most parts of the country and at most socio-economic levels. But just as one experience with a few angry black people can leave white folks with this ongoing lurking fear of offending, so a single or a few experiences of open racism probably lead many black folks to assume that the racism had simply become covert rather than overt, and that most white folks were probably still racist. The difference was that now, many of the black folks weren’t willing to continue with stoic endurance as they had earlier. They were, and quite rightly, going to call people on it.

It was a good and necessary thing, but in some ways it lead to greater hostility between the races, or at least, greater *open * hostility. And it’s left long term societal scars - anger on one side and guilty anxiety on the other. I don’t think they’ll disappear during my lifetime, but this is something that we can at least reasonably hope will pass with time, as racism becomes so unacceptable to admit that adults can no longer pass it on to their children.

So, I’m sorry, monstro. It’s probably just a matter of time, but you too may be too old to ever see it disappear entirely. In the meantime, it sucks. But I’ll do my best to remember your viola and your cats (and do my best to forget the reality TV), and try to assume you’re not going to be automatically pissed off at me because I’m white. FWIW, it’s a well-meant fear, if you know what I mean. The fear is that *we * have offended inadvertently. That probably doesn’t make it any easier to deal with, but try to bear it in mind.

Oh, and the right-wingers? This is the age of Karl Rove and the Swift-Boaters; some of them’ll say anything and some of it will stick, and their most effective tactic is to turn around any accusation so that *you’re * the one who is guilty, not them. You have to just ignore 'em. We left-wingers have to do the same. You’re right; it sucks.

Oy!, thanks so much for those kind words and assurances. This is not relevant at all, but when I see your username, I think of my older sister and the strange punk rocker phase she went through in the late 80s. She used to amuse herself by saying “oy!” all the time. I thought it was something she’d made up. ;j

And speaking of usernames, maybe people see “militant” in mine. Monstro is such a scary, butch-sounding name. Maybe if I change my name to queen everglades or sexy brown sugar, people would give me a break.

:wink:

I have to admit that “Monstro” to me sez a young dude who plays a lot of videogames. Not a black chick. :stuck_out_tongue:

But not “sugartits” :smiley:

(That’s what Mel Gibson called the female cop)
:smack:

monstro, I suspect you should rethink the whole **sexy brown sugar ** thing. People will start thinking you’re looking for, er, action, and not of the argument kind. **queen of the everglades ** sounds rather glamorous in an alligator-y sort of way, though.

I don’t know what “monstro” means; I’ve always wondered. It doesn’t sound monstery, though, if that’s what you mean. And certainly not butch - like mine, your user name is totally non-gender indicative (I’m female too, though). To explain my username, I’ll leave this discussion tonight (I’m getting off the computer) with a post using my signature. Oddly, I’m not Jewish; I just love Yiddish. And Stephen King.

But the punk-rocker phase with your sister saying Oy! is just weird. I associate the word with nice middle-aged Jewish women from Long Island (pronounced Lawn Giland, mind you), not punk rockers!

I’ve enjoyed this discussion, and I’m so pleased I’ve made a new SDMB friend. I can assume that, yes? Please? Pretty please? With sugar (brown, if you prefer, but I don’t know how to make it sexy :smiley: ) on top?

Have a great night!

Oh fuck (this IS the Pit, after all), my signature didn’t show up. It’s:

Gevalt! A billy-bumbler yet!

MONSTRO SMASH!!!

Monstro is my cat. Here’s a pic. (He’s the one on the left, looking all cute and cuddley).

We need a laughing smiling.

And I’m happy I’ve made a new friend too! Never again will your posts be invisible (at least to me).

Nothing angry that I could see in the OP either. Looked perfectly reasonable to me.

I have always guessed that you were a big Pinnochio fan as a kid, or that your kids were or something.

:slight_smile:

I figured you were at least sort of angry about it. Not necessarily outraged or anything, just unhappy. There wasn’t anything in the post that I could point out, my belief was based on some of your other posts on race. You do strike me as being militant sometimes, and as someone who has a very strong set of beliefs on the subject that aren’t likely to change.

I’m not saying there’s anything wrong with this, and I enjoy reading your posts. I kind of hate to post now, since this thread has moved off the original subject and onto more lighthearted things, but those are my two cents.

The thing I found distastful about your op was this

For one thing, I just don’t like generalzations about “Hollywood”. They induce very painful eyerolls. Then you bring up The Good Earth. I presume you are talking about the 1937 production. 1937? Do you think anyone involved in that production is still working in Hollywood? (actually there may be) Be that as it may, it is really unfair for you to complain about “improper” casting and citing a film from 1937, especially when the woman who is to be portrayed by Jolie is happy with the casting. Maybe if you had films from the same producers that have ‘black’ roles going to non-blacks, you might have a valid point to make but citing a film from 1937, annoyed me a bit.
Are other actresses unhappy they didnt’ get that role? Sure! But that is true of anybody being cast in anything. If Angelian Jolie was cast in the Angelina Jolie story, there would be actress’ and a few actors who would be thinking that they should have got the part.

I am obviously out of the loop. I read no anger at all in your OP. But then again I didn’t know your background and didn’t know you were black or female, in fact your username for some reason brought a white man to my mind. So I had no white guilt hindering me :slight_smile:

So from someone who just read the words with no idea of you in my head, no anger was perceived.

Why can’t we generalize about Hollywood? People generalize about all kinds of institutions, from the federal government to the corporate world to various minority “communities”. Is it wrong to say that Hollywood is profit-driven? That it selects for people who are both talented and good-looking? That it produces movies that often draw big box offices? People draw generalizations all the time. As long as they don’t do it too often and they are based on truth, I don’t see a problem with it.

I disagree with everything you’ve said here. I wasn’t complaining about “improper” anything. I don’t think I was being “unfair”, particularly since I made mention of roles taken by blacks that were not written for black characters. I wasn’t making a point on anything…since I wasn’t presenting an argument (for a change). I was just asking some questions and trying to start a conversation.

Your tone in this thread is combative and overly argumentative. It would be appropriate if I were whining or throwing a fit, but I wasn’t. If I had wanted a major debate, I would have gone to GD.

I agree totally with this.

I think you got irritated later on in the thread, but it was fully justified. The OP seemed like an honest desire to explore what is, in fact, a pretty interesting issue. I’m really puzzled by the implication that you were “outraged” or upset at all, or that your premise was “lame”. But it’s very difficult to discuss racial issues around here, because, frankly, there’s a lot of angry white people around here who get pissed whenever any racial issues are brought up. And there are a lot of other people who’ve latched onto ideas like “race isn’t a biological phenomenon” to decide that its social meaning in the context of our particular society is somehow unworthy of discussion - exemplified by the posters arguing that Halle Berry and Mariane Pearle aren’t actually black.

Me neither. And the only justification was an invisible “tone” to the fact that you brought up something that is (to me and you at least) an interesting issue to discuss. Either my web browser doesn’t display this mystical tone in question, or else people are making lame excuses for reading something into your OP that wasn’t there. Maybe it’s easier to be an angry white person if you can pretend you were provoked into it by a militant black person.

Apparently, it’s not just the OP people are having problems with. Seriously, what the hell is with people in that thread? It was a perfectly calm and reasonable OP, and people are acting like it was a Nation of Islam screed. I don’t get it. astorian’s snark makes no sense. It seems like sarcasm, and yet it’s an accurate description of your posts to that thread. Maybe you should post a link in that thread to this one, so the folks there can just come out and state what their damage is?

BTW, I don’t think of you as an “angry black woman,” monstro. I think of you as “that woman whose job requires her to be occasionally menaced by an alligator.” Which, frankly, is a hell of a lot more intimidating.

Me neither, for what it’s worth. I think of you as “that hot chick who I discussed hair with that one time.”

I think of you as the friend for whom I have voluntarily thrown away a perfectly good vocabulary word. You know the one. I thought I was going to escape with it intact, but you came and made faces in my mirror. I guess two can play that game, huh?

No, I don’t think you sound angry. You sound centered.

BTW, a certain FRPC (female red Persian cat) named Pumpkin is impressed with Monstro-the-cat and sends this greeting: mmmnb

I don’t see why The Good Earth from 1937 shouldn’t be included on the list. Real Chinese women have existed at least that long.

Monstro, your website is fabulous. I love it. Burnt cheese, Krispy Kremes, gummi worms… woohoo! :smiley:

(Too bad we can’t be friends 'cause I’m crazy and evil. ;))