# Do ideas of human beauty and sexual attraction change over time? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [September 7, 2012, 9:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-ideas-of-human-beauty-and-sexual-attraction-change-over-time/633966 "2012-09-07T09:54:19Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![njtt](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/ecd19e/32.png) [@njtt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/njtt)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2012, 2:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-ideas-of-human-beauty-and-sexual-attraction-change-over-time/633966/21 "2012-09-07T14:47:24Z")
I think changing fashions in things like clothes, make-up and hairstyles have at least as much to do with it as a woman’s inherent appearance. A large part (though not all) of inherent beauty has to do with things that do not change much, such as symmetry, basic female secondary sexual traits, and signs of good health. If you gave Ingrid Bergman a modern-style makeover, even **Lazlo** would probably like her fine. Likewise, if you sent Megan Fox or Sofia Vegara (or, likely, the other one, who I haven’t heard of either) back through time to the 1940s, and put them in 1940s-style hair makeup and clothes, the people then would probably like them fine. ETA: Ninja’d by **tim314**. :mad: ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2012, 2:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-ideas-of-human-beauty-and-sexual-attraction-change-over-time/633966/22 "2012-09-07T14:50:54Z")
Well, also the pictures of modern actresses will almost certainly have been subjected to photoshopping, whereas there is less incentive to do so to a picture taken ~70 years ago. ---
**Author:** ![Charlie\_Wayne](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/4bbf92/32.png) [@Charlie\_Wayne](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Charlie_Wayne)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2012, 2:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-ideas-of-human-beauty-and-sexual-attraction-change-over-time/633966/23 "2012-09-07T14:52:53Z")
> [@Mijin](#): > > There is a cultural and instinctive component. Clearly tastes do change over time, but only so much. You’ll struggle to find a culture where elderly women, or spotty skin is considered most desirable. Likewise desirable facial ratios have never really changed. I agree. Plus, I always thought that the one most important factor in deciding physical beauty in any face (male or female) was the degree of symmetry between the left and right sides of the face. I recall studying that in a Psychology course at university although I can’t provide any authoritative citation at this time. It is for this reason that I am puzzled why a face that is considered beautiful in the 30s would no longer be considered beautiful in 2012. ---
**Author:** ![njtt](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/ecd19e/32.png) [@njtt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/njtt)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2012, 3:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-ideas-of-human-beauty-and-sexual-attraction-change-over-time/633966/24 "2012-09-07T15:03:46Z")
I note also that all the women of today that **Lazlo** says he likes are Hispanic, or at least look as if they could be, whereas those from earlier times that he does not like, are not. I don’t suppose there were many Hispanic women women in starring Hollywood roles back then, but there were some Mediterranean types. I wonder how he would feel about [Sophia Loren](http://www.google.co.uk/search?num=10&hl=en&site=imghp&tbm=isch&source=hp&biw=1218&bih=892&q=sophia+loren+young&oq=Sophia+Loren&gs_l=img.1.1.0l10.2313.2313.0.4475.1.1.0.0.0.0.72.72.1.1.0...0.0...1ac.1j2.9YUYLWaMpQM) (when she was young), for example. ---
**Author:** ![clairobscur](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/839c29/32.png) [@clairobscur](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/clairobscur)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2012, 3:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-ideas-of-human-beauty-and-sexual-attraction-change-over-time/633966/25 "2012-09-07T15:31:07Z")
> [@Lazlo Hapsburg](#): > > If people who are considered extremely “hot” today (like maybe Megan Fox or Sophia Vergara or Emanuelle Chriqui) were transported back in time to the 30s or 40s, what would people back then think of them? Would they be considered sexually attractive? Or would they be “freakish” looking? These three women are all of the same type and probably reflect your personal tastes more than anything else. Actresses from the 40s obviously don’t look like them. But then again, if I picked 3 women that I find incredibly hot, you might disagree and not find them _that_ attractive. Also a couple points that might influence your opinion : -Bergman, Garbo, etc… have hairstyles, clothes, etc… of their times. Maybe if you had some contemporary stylist and photographer taking care of them, your opinion would change. -You shouldn’t compare them with three random women that you happen to like. They’re not famous hot women, they are famous actresses. So, you should compare them to the most famous contemporary actresses. I don’t know who these would be, but maybe again you wouldn’t find them as hot as your personnal pick of vaguely known models. Apart from that, yes, ideals of beauty change over time. Some element are always present, like a symetrical face. But what is now considered “plumpy” has been super hot in the past. An ideal woman had to have rosy cheeks, or a very pale skin, or a tanned face. And so on… In fact, the ideal doesn’t only change with time but also from a culture to another. The gavage of girls in Mauritania results in “ideals” that you probably wouldn’t appreciate. ---
**Author:** ![Charlie\_Wayne](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/4bbf92/32.png) [@Charlie\_Wayne](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Charlie_Wayne)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2012, 3:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-ideas-of-human-beauty-and-sexual-attraction-change-over-time/633966/26 "2012-09-07T15:45:17Z")
> [@clairobscur](#): > > -Bergman, Garbo, etc… have hairstyles, clothes, etc… of their times. Maybe if you had some contemporary stylist and photographer taking care of them, your opinion would change. I fully agree. > [@clairobscur](#): > > -So, you should compare them to the most famous contemporary actresses. I don’t know who these would be, but maybe again you wouldn’t find them as hot as your personnal pick of vaguely known models. These three ladies, (Sofia Vergara, Emmanuelle Chriqui and Megan Fox) are all currently highly successful working actresses. Sofia Vergara stars in the ABC TV series “Modern Family” and for anyone who has never seen this show, it is a real scream - one of the funniest TV sitcoms I have ever seen. If you ever get the chance, I would recommend the one episode where a neighbor complains about a screaming parrot. That incident features the comedic acting of Sophie Vergara and is a real hoot. Emmanuelle Chriqui starred in the HBO series “Entourage” and was cast primarily because she represented a very beautiful and “hot” love interest for one of the lead male characters. Many men think Megan Fox is just the most beautiful and “hottest” actress working today. She starred in the TV sitcom “Hope and Faith” and also starred in the blockbuster movies, “Transformers” (2007) as well as “Transformers: Revenge of the Fallen” (2009). It is no surprise to me that many people do not recognize these actresses by name. All I can say to that is many more people do not recognize the names Mary Astor, Ingrid Bergman and Greta Garbo. ---
**Author:** ![Charlie\_Wayne](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/4bbf92/32.png) [@Charlie\_Wayne](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Charlie_Wayne)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2012, 3:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-ideas-of-human-beauty-and-sexual-attraction-change-over-time/633966/27 "2012-09-07T15:55:39Z")
> [@njtt](#): > > I note also that all the women of today that **Lazlo** says he likes are Hispanic, or at least look as if they could be, whereas those from earlier times that he does not like, are not. I don’t suppose there were many Hispanic women women in starring Hollywood roles back then, but there were some Mediterranean types. I wonder how he would feel about [Sophia Loren](http://www.google.co.uk/search?num=10&hl=en&site=imghp&tbm=isch&source=hp&biw=1218&bih=892&q=sophia+loren+young&oq=Sophia+Loren&gs_l=img.1.1.0l10.2313.2313.0.4475.1.1.0.0.0.0.72.72.1.1.0...0.0...1ac.1j2.9YUYLWaMpQM) (when she was young), for example. I agree that all three of these women do appear Hispanic. However, I am pretty certain that is just a fluke. To the best of my knowledge, Megan Fox and Emmanuelle Chriqui have no connection to any Hispanic origins. However, Sofia Vegara, originates from Columbia. FYI, my personal preference is for ladies with blonde hair and blue eyes. However, Here is a quote from IMDB regarding Megan Fox: [Megan Fox - Biography - IMDb](http://www.imdb.com/name/nm1083271/bio) Megan Denise Fox was born May 16, 1986 in Rockwood, Tennessee. She has one older sister. Megan began her training in drama and dance at the age of 5 and, at the age of 10, moved to Florida where she continued her training and finished school. She now lives in Los Angeles, California And here is another from IMDB regarding Emmanuelle Chriqui: [Emmanuelle Chriqui - Biography - IMDb](http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0004825/bio) Emmanuelle Chriqui was born in Montreal, Quebec, to Moroccan immigrants. Her family moved to Toronto when she was 2 years old. At the age of 10, Chriqui appeared in a McDonald’s commercial. She moved to Vancouver guest-starring in series such as “Are You Afraid of the Dark?” (1991), ---
**Author:** ![Bozuit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/edb3f5/32.png) [@Bozuit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bozuit)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2012, 4:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-ideas-of-human-beauty-and-sexual-attraction-change-over-time/633966/28 "2012-09-07T16:32:50Z")
I now feel so educated. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2012, 4:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-ideas-of-human-beauty-and-sexual-attraction-change-over-time/633966/29 "2012-09-07T16:34:25Z")
> [@Che\_G.Anonymous\_Capitalist](#): > > Nothing more lady-like than cheating on your husband with a dirty Italian. > [@Che\_G.Anonymous\_Capitalist](#): > > What’s that? Knock it off. ---
**Author:** ![Procrustus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/procrustus/32/2994_2.png) [@Procrustus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Procrustus)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2012, 4:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-ideas-of-human-beauty-and-sexual-attraction-change-over-time/633966/30 "2012-09-07T16:40:54Z")
> [@Lazlo Hapsburg](#): > > I fully agree. > > Sofia Vergara stars in the ABC TV series “Modern Family” and for anyone who has never seen this show, it is a real scream - one of the funniest TV sitcoms I have ever seen. If you ever get the chance, I would recommend the one episode where a neighbor complains about a screaming parrot. That incident features the comedic acting of Sophie Vergara and is a real hoot. > . Dang. I love that show. Watch it every week. Someting is wrong with me, since I not only didn’t recognize her name (I don’t pay attention to the credits) but I didn’t even recognize her image after I googled imaged her. I’m not qualified to offer opinions I guess. However, I’ll throw out one more. Ms. Vergara is simply not my type, the actress that plays Clare is more to my liking. Which brings us back to the point of the OP, tastes vary. Sometimes because of the passage of time, sometimes just because. ---
**Author:** ![Charlie\_Wayne](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/4bbf92/32.png) [@Charlie\_Wayne](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Charlie_Wayne)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2012, 5:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-ideas-of-human-beauty-and-sexual-attraction-change-over-time/633966/31 "2012-09-07T17:09:12Z")
> [@Procrustus](#): > > Dang. I love that show. Watch it every week. Someting is wrong with me, since I not only didn’t recognize her name (I don’t pay attention to the credits) but I didn’t even recognize her image after I googled imaged her. I’m not qualified to offer opinions I guess. However, I’ll throw out one more. Ms. Vergara is simply not my type, the actress that plays Clare is more to my liking. Which brings us back to the point of the OP, tastes vary. Sometimes because of the passage of time, sometimes just because. The actress who plays Claire is Jule Bowen and she is more to my type as well. She is beginning to age now. But do you remember the series “Ed”? I could never get into it. I thought it was completely stupid. But it ran for 4 years from 2000 to 2004. It starred Tom Cavanaugh who I always thought was an incredible dweeb and dork and I really hated him. But Julie Bowen played his love interest and in 2000, she was 30 years old. The only reason I ever paused when surfing channels was because I thought she was incredibly beautiful. However, it was so sad and such a waste that they used her in this incredibly stupid role as the love interenst of Tom Cavanaugh. I had never heard of him before thise show commenced and I never heard of him afterwards. I always figured he was just an incredible creep and idiot. But, Julie Bowen? She was just gorgeous and extremely attractive as well. ---
**Author:** ![HoneyBadgerDC](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/honeybadgerdc/32/1033_2.png) [@HoneyBadgerDC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HoneyBadgerDC)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2012, 5:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-ideas-of-human-beauty-and-sexual-attraction-change-over-time/633966/32 "2012-09-07T17:14:58Z")
When I was younger I found black women very unattractive unless they had white features. As I grew older I started apprciating more and more classic black features and finding black women more and more attractive. As said above certain facial ratios seem to dominate what is appealing in general. My tastes in beauty have changed radicaly over the years. ---
**Author:** ![DrFidelius](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/drfidelius/32/3447_2.png) [@DrFidelius](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrFidelius)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2012, 5:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-ideas-of-human-beauty-and-sexual-attraction-change-over-time/633966/33 "2012-09-07T17:18:34Z")
Damn. Somebody spends a lot of time watching pretty women on the telly. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2012, 5:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-ideas-of-human-beauty-and-sexual-attraction-change-over-time/633966/34 "2012-09-07T17:43:08Z")
> [@clairobscur](#): > > Apart from that, yes, ideals of beauty change over time. Some element are always present, like a symetrical face. But what is now considered “plumpy” has been super hot in the past. An ideal woman had to have rosy cheeks, or a very pale skin, or a tanned face. Or land holdings in Aquitaine, as the case may be. ---
**Author:** ![BlinkingDuck](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/eada6e/32.png) [@BlinkingDuck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BlinkingDuck)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2012, 5:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-ideas-of-human-beauty-and-sexual-attraction-change-over-time/633966/35 "2012-09-07T17:45:59Z")
> [@DrFidelius](#): > > Are you mad, man? Those ladies (and I do emphasize that they were _ladies_) were and are sexy as all hell. > Here I thought you were going to complain about how women in old paintings are too fat for you, but to disregard Ingrid Bergman is inconceivable. > How old are you? The images fed to you by the media in your youth carry over into adult perceptions. +1 I’ve heard people say this before, however. I think it must just be the medium and that if these women were to stand in front of the OP in ‘modern garb’ he would be salivating. ---
**Author:** ![Bozuit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/edb3f5/32.png) [@Bozuit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bozuit)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2012, 9:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-ideas-of-human-beauty-and-sexual-attraction-change-over-time/633966/36 "2012-09-07T21:07:40Z")
A big part of it is the style. The kind of clothes and makeup they wore are not seen on young women nowadays. ---
**Author:** ![phxjcc](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/8491ac/32.png) [@phxjcc](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/phxjcc)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2012, 9:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-ideas-of-human-beauty-and-sexual-attraction-change-over-time/633966/37 "2012-09-07T21:30:00Z")
> [@Bozuit](#): > > A big part of it is the style. The kind of clothes and makeup they wore are not seen on young women nowadays. This. Plus the era that the OP is referencing was one of the most restrictive production code eras in history. The dialogue from Modern Family today would have been banned from release by the Hayes code during the post-code 30’s and 40’s. Suggest that the OP look at some pre-code Metro and WB films. For the OP, also see Raquel Torres in Duck Soup. ---
**Author:** ![Love\_Rhombus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/love_rhombus/32/10694_2.png) [@Love\_Rhombus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Love_Rhombus)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2012, 9:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-ideas-of-human-beauty-and-sexual-attraction-change-over-time/633966/38 "2012-09-07T21:50:51Z")
> [@Lazlo Hapsburg](#): > > It is no surprise to me that many people do not recognize these actresses by name. All I can say to that is many more people do not recognize the names Mary Astor, Ingrid Bergman and Greta Garbo. I don’t agree with this-I’d say it’s the other way around. ---
**Author:** ![Charlie\_Wayne](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/4bbf92/32.png) [@Charlie\_Wayne](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Charlie_Wayne)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2012, 10:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-ideas-of-human-beauty-and-sexual-attraction-change-over-time/633966/39 "2012-09-07T22:44:09Z")
> [@Love\_Rhombus](#): > > I don’t agree with this-I’d say it’s the other way around. I wish there was some way to learn the truth. I based my claim on the fact that most people alive today were born after Ingrid Bergman, Mary Astor and Greta Garbo were out of the spotlight. ---
**Author:** ![Charlie\_Wayne](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/4bbf92/32.png) [@Charlie\_Wayne](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Charlie_Wayne)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2012, 10:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-ideas-of-human-beauty-and-sexual-attraction-change-over-time/633966/40 "2012-09-07T22:53:25Z")
Greta Garbo’s last movie role was 71 years ago in 1941. [Greta Garbo - Wikipedia](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greta_Garbo#Filmography) Mary Astor’s last movie role was 58 years ago in 1964. [Mary Astor - Wikipedia](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mary_Astor#Filmography) Ingrid Bergman’s last movie role was 34 years ago in 1978. [Ingrid Bergman - Wikipedia](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ingrid_Bergman#Filmography) [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-ideas-of-human-beauty-and-sexual-attraction-change-over-time/633966.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-ideas-of-human-beauty-and-sexual-attraction-change-over-time/633966.md?page=3)