# Do insects seek revenge if you try to kill them **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [September 8, 2015, 10:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-insects-seek-revenge-if-you-try-to-kill-them/730383 "2015-09-08T22:10:48Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 17\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![astorian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ad7895/32.png) [@astorian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/astorian)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2015, 4:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-insects-seek-revenge-if-you-try-to-kill-them/730383/41 "2015-09-09T16:03:41Z")
> [@Colibri](#): > > As a professional biologist with some familiarity with neurobiology, I have the background to authoritatively state that insects don’t remotely have the level of neurological development to be capable of anything that can be considered revenge. In fact, the idea is so far-fetched I don’t think that it’s necessary for us to prove this negative. There would even be few vertebrates, probably including only the more intelligent birds and mammals, that would even have memories long enough to make the concept possible. > > In most cases, animals are only going to attack in order to defend themselves. Even when animals recognize individuals that have hurt them in the past, they probably only attack as a pre-emptive defense. It’s not because of any sense of justice or retribution. Never mind “revenge.” Let’s ask a more basic question like… “If I swat at a bee or wasp, leave the room for an hour, then come back, will the bug even remember what happened or “recognize” me?” I’m pretty sure the answer is no. ---
**Author:** ![Colibri](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colibri/32/1841_2.png) [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2015, 4:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-insects-seek-revenge-if-you-try-to-kill-them/730383/42 "2015-09-09T16:18:35Z")
> [@astorian](#): > > Never mind “revenge.” Let’s ask a more basic question like… “If I swat at a bee or wasp, leave the room for an hour, then come back, will the bug even remember what happened or “recognize” me?” > > I’m pretty sure the answer is no. Insects are capable of learning, even long-term learning. Honeybees can learn the location of food, which flowers are most productive, etc. I expect wasps can learn where to find food and so forth. I wouldn’t rule out that a single exposure to a threat could cause a social insect to learn to recognize it as a threat when it encounters it again in the future. But this is a mechanistic response, not something that can be characterized as “revenge.” ---
**Author:** ![kayaker](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kayaker/32/441_2.png) [@kayaker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kayaker)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2015, 4:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-insects-seek-revenge-if-you-try-to-kill-them/730383/43 "2015-09-09T16:22:55Z")
> [@Colibri](#): > > Insects are capable of learning, even long-term learning. In college I worked in a neurophysiology lab studying learning in the marine nudibranch _[Hermissenda crassicornis](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hermissenda_crassicornis)_. The animals are normally phototactic. I would expose the animals to a negative stimulus (rotation) paired with light. After _weeks_ of this the animals would “learn” to spend less time in the light. The differences were just barely statistically significant, but they were there and reproducible. I would then cut their heads off, dissect out their CNS and record from their photoreceptors. Good times!! ---
**Author:** ![Malthus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/85f322/32.png) [@Malthus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malthus)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2015, 4:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-insects-seek-revenge-if-you-try-to-kill-them/730383/44 "2015-09-09T16:30:37Z")
> [@Colibri](#): > > Insects are capable of learning, even long-term learning. Honeybees can learn the location of food, which flowers are most productive, etc. I expect wasps can learn where to find food and so forth. > > I wouldn’t rule out that a single exposure to a threat could cause a social insect to learn to recognize it as a threat when it encounters it again in the future. But this is a mechanistic response, not something that can be characterized as “revenge.” Flatworm memory works in truly strange ways: > **[These Decapitated Worms Regrow Old Memories Along with New Heads](https://www.smithsonianmag.com/science-nature/these-decapitated-worms-regrow-old-memories-along-with-new-heads-9497048/?no-ist)** > > New experiments show that beheaded flatworms can retain trained behaviors after their brains regenerate ---
**Author:** ![Finagle](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/b19c9b/32.png) [@Finagle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Finagle)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2015, 4:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-insects-seek-revenge-if-you-try-to-kill-them/730383/45 "2015-09-09T16:43:07Z")
> [@Urbanredneck](#): > > Well you probably wont believe this but a friend of mine said that he once walked into his shed and there was this big wasp colony. He saw them and slowly backed away. He began to daily walk in and walk out and soon they had an “understanding” that he wouldnt harm them and they would not go after him. You probably won’t believe this, but I had a yellowjacket in my gazebo and we had an “understanding” that I wouldn’t harm it and it wouldn’t harm me. Later that afternoon I shifted in the chair without looking and the bastard stung the crap out of my arm. At which point, the understanding having been breached, I harmed it big time. ---
**Author:** ![Scumpup](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ce73a5/32.png) [@Scumpup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scumpup)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2015, 4:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-insects-seek-revenge-if-you-try-to-kill-them/730383/46 "2015-09-09T16:44:56Z")
> [@Malthus](#): > > Flatworm memory works in truly strange ways: > > [http://www.smithsonianmag.com/science-nature/these-decapitated-worms-regrow-old-memories-along-with-new-heads-9497048/?no-ist](http://www.smithsonianmag.com/science-nature/these-decapitated-worms-regrow-old-memories-along-with-new-heads-9497048/?no-ist) As an undergraduate project, I tried to reproduce McConnel’s work. I did not get statistically significant results. Planarians, though, are surprisingly entertaining. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2015, 5:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-insects-seek-revenge-if-you-try-to-kill-them/730383/47 "2015-09-09T17:35:16Z")
> [@kayaker](#): > > In college I worked in a neurophysiology lab studying learning in the marine nudibranch _[Hermissenda crassicornis](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hermissenda_crassicornis)_. > > The animals are normally phototactic. I would expose the animals to a negative stimulus (rotation) paired with light. After _weeks_ of this the animals would “learn” to spend less time in the light. The differences were just barely statistically significant, but they were there and reproducible. > > I would then cut their heads off, dissect out their CNS and record from their photoreceptors. Good times!! And did you even wake up with a nudibranch sitting on you with a tiny knife, waiting to kill you in your sleep from the horrors you had committed upon it’s brothers? 😃 ---
**Author:** ![pool](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pool/32/4152_2.png) [@pool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pool)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2015, 6:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-insects-seek-revenge-if-you-try-to-kill-them/730383/48 "2015-09-09T18:11:48Z")
There is something to be said for the intelligence of the hive mind of insects. Japanese bees have developed an ingenious strategy to kill the Giant Japanese Hornet that involves not stinging, but by surrounding it and vibrating around it until they basically superheat the air around the hornet enough to kill it. [https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=K6m40W1s0Wc](https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=K6m40W1s0Wc) ---
**Author:** ![Claverhouse](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/13edae/32.png) [@Claverhouse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Claverhouse)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2015, 6:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-insects-seek-revenge-if-you-try-to-kill-them/730383/49 "2015-09-09T18:20:05Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > Hath not an insect compound eyes? hath not an insect antennae, organs, > dimensions, senses, affections, passions? fed with > the same nectar, hurt with the same flyswatters, subject > to the same diseases, healed by the same means, > estivated and hibernated by the same winter and summer, as > a mammal is? If you squish us, do we not splatter? > if you tickle us, do we not fly? if you poison > us, do we not die? and if you wrong us, shall we not > revenge? If we are like you in the rest, we will > resemble you in that. Excellent. Anyway, I read of one vengeful spider. Big girl. Lived in a cave under the pass, high in the mountains. Not much of a talker. ---
**Author:** ![misling](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/3ab097/32.png) [@misling](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/misling)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2015, 6:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-insects-seek-revenge-if-you-try-to-kill-them/730383/50 "2015-09-09T18:38:23Z")
> [@Claverhouse](#): > > Anyway, I read of one vengeful spider. Big girl. Lived in a cave under the pass, high in the mountains. Not much of a talker. I’m not sure She was vengeful. She might have just been responding to an invasion of her territory… added to irritation stirred up by a visiting gollum. ---
**Author:** ![Blake](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/a9a28c/32.png) [@Blake](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Blake)\ **Post date:** [September 10, 2015, 4:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-insects-seek-revenge-if-you-try-to-kill-them/730383/51 "2015-09-10T04:23:10Z")
> [@Urbanredneck](#): > > Yes, I’m fully aware that the story sounds strange. How can he ID just one wasp? I dont know. He said when he walked back in all the wasps were peaceful except and one was lying there dead where had not been a dead wasp before. So a wasp that wasn’t habituated was found in a the same vicinity as a nest full of wasps that were habituated. And at some point that wasp was found dead. Did you or your friend consider the possibility that this was a wasp from another nest, and was killed as an intruder? Wouldn’t that be infinitely more believable than wasps killing their sister to protect your friend? Or maybe the wasp was from that nest, and was acting oddly due to disease, which is why it was killed? There are about a million alternative scenarios that explain what was observed. Why accept your friend’s claim that the wasps were protecting him, or that it was the same wasp? > [@](#): > > This is something maybe a scientist could investigate. And how would they do that? Did your friend preserve the dead wasp? > [@](#): > > They are really amazing little critters so while I know the story sounds odd, I wouldnt put it past them. Why not? Everything you have been old by reliable sources says tha it is impossible. So why would you not put it past them? Why the credulity? ---
**Author:** ![Urbanredneck](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ea5d25/32.png) [@Urbanredneck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Urbanredneck)\ **Post date:** [September 10, 2015, 4:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-insects-seek-revenge-if-you-try-to-kill-them/730383/52 "2015-09-10T04:49:55Z")
> [@mozchron](#): > > I’ve been a working PhD entomologist for almost 20 years. > > Insects are, to put it bluntly, dumb as hell (notwithstanding some of the amazing things honeybee hives can do - on an individual level bees are dumb too). Pretty much everything they do is hard-wired into their nervous system. You can chop off their heads and they really don’t notice; they’ll keep on trying to do their thing until they starve or desiccate. > > Sure, you can condition them to stimuli. They can even “learn” to an extent. But planning? Revenge? it is to laugh. Not just bees, but what about the ants that form symbiotic relationships with other insects. What about [fungus-farming](http://www.pnas.org/content/99/24/15247.full) insects. Hive insects are truly amazing. ---
**Author:** ![Leo\_Bloom](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/leo_bloom/32/10377_2.png) [@Leo\_Bloom](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Leo_Bloom)\ **Post date:** [September 10, 2015, 6:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-insects-seek-revenge-if-you-try-to-kill-them/730383/53 "2015-09-10T06:27:53Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > Hath not an insect compound eyes? hath not an insect antennae, organs, > dimensions, senses, affections, passions? fed with > the same nectar, hurt with the same flyswatters, subject > to the same diseases, healed by the same means, > estivated and hibernated by the same winter and summer, as > a mammal is? If you squish us, do we not splatter? > if you tickle us, do we not fly? if you poison > us, do we not die? and if you wrong us, shall we not > revenge? If we are like you in the rest, we will > resemble you in that. Excellent. Gregor Samsa’s favorite passage. Then of course there’s this: [http://crushzion.k0nsl.org/wp-content/uploads/2013/07/jewish-talmudic-world-conquest-yogoslavia.jpg](http://crushzion.k0nsl.org/wp-content/uploads/2013/07/jewish-talmudic-world-conquest-yogoslavia.jpg) ---
**Author:** ![Leo\_Bloom](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/leo_bloom/32/10377_2.png) [@Leo\_Bloom](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Leo_Bloom)\ **Post date:** [September 10, 2015, 6:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-insects-seek-revenge-if-you-try-to-kill-them/730383/54 "2015-09-10T06:34:01Z")
> [@engineer\_comp\_geek](#): > > **Moderator Note** > > Let’s keep the politics out of GQ, please (now there’s something you don’t expect to have to say in a thread about insects…). > > No warning issued. Far be it from me to ignore a Mod warning, and his expectations, but… One of the most memorable lines (at least for me) in the superb Cronenberg remake of _The Fly_ (the original is referenced above), is about a tragic man/fly who certainly _does_ seek revenge, what with being a man/fly and all, so OP is still out of luck: as he begins his transformation, he warns Geena Davis to stay away, as he knows he eventually will follow insect rules: “Ever heard of fly politics? There is none.” On the other hand, he never does follow those full insect rules, so maybe the OP is correct, at least by the evidence in this portrayal. ---
**Author:** ![Leo\_Bloom](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/leo_bloom/32/10377_2.png) [@Leo\_Bloom](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Leo_Bloom)\ **Post date:** [September 10, 2015, 6:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-insects-seek-revenge-if-you-try-to-kill-them/730383/55 "2015-09-10T06:42:08Z")
> [@Leo\_Bloom](#): > > Excellent. > > Gregor Samsa’s favorite passage. > > Then of course there’s this: [http://crushzion.k0nsl.org/wp-content/uploads/2013/07/jewish-talmudic-world-conquest-yogoslavia.jpg](http://crushzion.k0nsl.org/wp-content/uploads/2013/07/jewish-talmudic-world-conquest-yogoslavia.jpg) I should have said–which was implied by the “of course”–that a linkage was evident (it as an old trope) as recognized by Kafka. But not Shakespeare. ---
**Author:** ![Blake](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/a9a28c/32.png) [@Blake](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Blake)\ **Post date:** [September 10, 2015, 7:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-insects-seek-revenge-if-you-try-to-kill-them/730383/56 "2015-09-10T07:15:06Z")
Why is a Jewish spider wearing an earring? Isn’t that more of Gypsie thing? ---
**Author:** ![Claverhouse](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/13edae/32.png) [@Claverhouse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Claverhouse)\ **Post date:** [September 10, 2015, 12:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-insects-seek-revenge-if-you-try-to-kill-them/730383/57 "2015-09-10T12:30:27Z")
> [@Leo\_Bloom](#): > > I should have said–which was implied by the “of course”–that a linkage was evident (it as an old trope) as recognized by Kafka. > > But not Shakespeare. Was Shakespeare anti-Arachnidic ? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-insects-seek-revenge-if-you-try-to-kill-them/730383.md?page=2)