# Do jet fighters have rear-view and side-view mirrors? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [September 9, 2014, 1:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-jet-fighters-have-rear-view-and-side-view-mirrors/697923 "2014-09-09T01:36:22Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Leo\_Bloom](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/leo_bloom/32/10377_2.png) [@Leo\_Bloom](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Leo_Bloom)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2014, 1:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-jet-fighters-have-rear-view-and-side-view-mirrors/697923/1 "2014-09-09T01:36:22Z")
See subject. Always wondered. And if so, when do the pilots use them? ---
**Author:** ![Richard\_Pearse](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/richard_pearse/32/13144_2.png) [@Richard\_Pearse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Richard_Pearse)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2014, 1:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-jet-fighters-have-rear-view-and-side-view-mirrors/697923/2 "2014-09-09T01:50:17Z")
The F14 does, not sure about more modern aircraft. The pilot would use them to see what’s behind them I guess, eg an enemy aircraft in a close dogfight. [![](https://i847.photobucket.com/albums/ab35/bobro15/f14-mirrors_zps4e052d46.jpg) ](https://i847.photobucket.com/albums/ab35/bobro15/f14-mirrors_zps4e052d46.jpg) ---
**Author:** ![GaryM](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/garym/32/241_2.png) [@GaryM](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GaryM)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2014, 3:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-jet-fighters-have-rear-view-and-side-view-mirrors/697923/3 "2014-09-09T03:10:42Z")
F4 Phantoms had mirrors in similar locations as the F14 does. ---
**Author:** ![thirdname](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/d07c76/32.png) [@thirdname](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/thirdname)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2014, 3:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-jet-fighters-have-rear-view-and-side-view-mirrors/697923/4 "2014-09-09T03:19:00Z")
The new F-35 has infrared cameras that provide coverage in every direction. > **[LITENING Advanced Targeting Pod](https://www.northropgrumman.com/what-we-do/air/litening-advanced-targeting-pod/)** > > Northrop Grumman’s LITENING is a podded, multi-sensor targeting and surveillance system that enables aircrews to detect, acquire, auto-track and identify targets at long ranges. [![](https://img.youtube.com/vi/e1NrFZddihQ/hqdefault.jpg "F-35 DAS") ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e1NrFZddihQ) ---
**Author:** ![Velocity](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/velocity/32/18006_2.png) [@Velocity](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Velocity)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2014, 3:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-jet-fighters-have-rear-view-and-side-view-mirrors/697923/5 "2014-09-09T03:22:37Z")
Russian fighters often did. ---
**Author:** ![Fubaya](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/c2a13f/32.png) [@Fubaya](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fubaya)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2014, 3:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-jet-fighters-have-rear-view-and-side-view-mirrors/697923/6 "2014-09-09T03:33:10Z")
F-18s have them similar to the F-14 ---
**Author:** ![Oakminster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/77aa72/32.png) [@Oakminster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Oakminster)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2014, 3:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-jet-fighters-have-rear-view-and-side-view-mirrors/697923/7 "2014-09-09T03:49:24Z")
F-15s definitely have them, and I think F-16s do, too. I don’t remember if T-38s had them, but probably. ---
**Author:** ![Richard\_Pearse](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/richard_pearse/32/13144_2.png) [@Richard\_Pearse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Richard_Pearse)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2014, 4:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-jet-fighters-have-rear-view-and-side-view-mirrors/697923/8 "2014-09-09T04:01:27Z")
I’ve been looking for them on F-16s but can’t see them. There’s no canopy frame to mount them on. ---
**Author:** ![Duckster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/duckster/32/1244_2.png) [@Duckster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Duckster)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2014, 4:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-jet-fighters-have-rear-view-and-side-view-mirrors/697923/9 "2014-09-09T04:04:09Z")
“Objects in (the) mirror are closer than they appear.” ---
**Author:** ![Leo\_Bloom](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/leo_bloom/32/10377_2.png) [@Leo\_Bloom](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Leo_Bloom)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2014, 4:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-jet-fighters-have-rear-view-and-side-view-mirrors/697923/10 "2014-09-09T04:10:40Z")
Up-view cameras on the floor seem plausible too, it just occurs to me. ---
**Author:** ![Richard\_Pearse](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/richard_pearse/32/13144_2.png) [@Richard\_Pearse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Richard_Pearse)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2014, 4:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-jet-fighters-have-rear-view-and-side-view-mirrors/697923/11 "2014-09-09T04:15:02Z")
[![](https://img.youtube.com/vi/Kq7dqIHsH3k/maxresdefault.jpg "US Navy F/A-18C Hornet East Demo Team (Helmet Cam) - Thunder Over Michigan 2010") ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kq7dqIHsH3k) Mirrors on an F-18, apparently used for the pilot to check how cool he looks. ---
**Author:** ![Leo\_Bloom](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/leo_bloom/32/10377_2.png) [@Leo\_Bloom](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Leo_Bloom)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2014, 4:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-jet-fighters-have-rear-view-and-side-view-mirrors/697923/12 "2014-09-09T04:15:32Z")
Nm ---
**Author:** ![Ranger\_Jeff](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ranger_jeff/32/2065_2.png) [@Ranger\_Jeff](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ranger_Jeff)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2014, 4:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-jet-fighters-have-rear-view-and-side-view-mirrors/697923/13 "2014-09-09T04:56:00Z")
They’d be useful to “check 6”. ---
**Author:** ![lazybratsche](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/ba8739/32.png) [@lazybratsche](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lazybratsche)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2014, 2:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-jet-fighters-have-rear-view-and-side-view-mirrors/697923/14 "2014-09-09T14:56:15Z")
> [@Ranger\_Jeff](#): > > They’d be useful to “check 6”. How relevant is that in modern combat? I could see it being necessary up to the Vietnam war, when there were still a substantial number of dogfights and gun kills. Especially in the F-4 which had lousy visibility to the rear. But with modern radar and missiles, most engagements would be fought far beyond visual range, let alone “visible in tiny rearview mirror” range. ---
**Author:** ![dougie\_monty](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/439d5e/32.png) [@dougie\_monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dougie_monty)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2014, 3:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-jet-fighters-have-rear-view-and-side-view-mirrors/697923/15 "2014-09-09T15:16:16Z")
My first impulse is to ask if they have a reverse gear. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![engineer\_comp\_geek](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/engineer_comp_geek/32/504_2.png) [@engineer\_comp\_geek](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/engineer_comp_geek)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2014, 3:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-jet-fighters-have-rear-view-and-side-view-mirrors/697923/16 "2014-09-09T15:33:10Z")
> [@dougie\_monty](#): > > My first impulse is to ask if they have a reverse gear. 😃 The Tornado does. (ok technically it’s a thrust reverser) ---
**Author:** ![JRDelirious](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jrdelirious/32/9531_2.png) [@JRDelirious](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JRDelirious)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2014, 3:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-jet-fighters-have-rear-view-and-side-view-mirrors/697923/17 "2014-09-09T15:58:43Z")
> [@lazybratsche](#): > > How relevant is that in modern combat? I could see it being necessary up to the Vietnam war, when there were still a substantial number of dogfights and gun kills. Especially in the F-4 which had lousy visibility to the rear. But with modern radar and missiles, most engagements would be fought far beyond visual range, let alone “visible in tiny rearview mirror” range. Actually an issue with the original F-4 Phantoms WAS the presumption that they would only fight at standoff with missiles. The original design did not have a gun at all. That had to be fixed fast. RL experience has shown that as late as 4th gen fighters (F 14 to 18, MiG 29, Su 27, Mirage 2000, Grippen) you still have had to deal with dogfighting. Nobody has experience yet, though, in actual air-to-air with 5th Gen fighters. But yes, more recent planes, as mentioned above, will more likely have a 360-coverage suite of cameras or sensors to tell the pilot if someone’s coming up behind. ---
**Author:** ![LSLGuy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lslguy/32/5813_2.png) [@LSLGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LSLGuy)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2014, 4:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-jet-fighters-have-rear-view-and-side-view-mirrors/697923/18 "2014-09-09T16:14:03Z")
F-16s don’t have them, lacking a windshield bow to attach them to. T-38s don’t have them, or at least didn’t in my day, since we didn’t do dog-fighting in those aircraft. The mirrors aren’t highly useful, but they’re not entirely useless either. For something like an F-4 with poor rearward visibility, the real benefit is to extend your field of regard a bit. Imagine you saw somebody abeam you and going aft; you’d be able to keep sight of them only so far rearward then the aircraft structure would get in the way. The mirrors enable you to keep sight of the bogey for a few more seconds which may be enough extra for you to maneuver intelligently. For aircraft with complete rearward visibility (at least in the upper hemisphere) like the F-15, -16, -18, and similar non-US aircraft, the value of mirrors is less. But properly adjusted, you may notice motion in them which represents something headed your way, or at least something you would have missed until a few seconds later when you’d turned your head & body around to look farther behind you. Done properly, lookout doctrine in a fighter is pretty athletic. Just flying straight and level you’re continuously leaning forward a bit then cranking your torso & neck around as far as you can to the left, scanning throughout your visible rear hemisphere, then repeating to the right. Back and forth, with only short few-second breaks between to scan the forward hemisphere, check the radar & warning gear, monitor fuel, monitor your position versus your formation mates, versus the ground, & versus the navigation route you’re running, etc. Once battle is joined and there are, say, two of you and two of them maneuvering for advantage, you’ve got to keep sight of all three aircraft each going in wildly different directions at once. While pulling Gs. And employing weapons once you get positioned. One of the eternal axioms of air combat is “Lose sight; lose fight.” It’s a busy job. Somebody upthread suggested this is all obsolete & it’s all done nowadays with radar and missiles in the forward quadrant fired at range. That certainly wasn’t true in my era (1980s) and as best I know from the guys I work with now that still fly fighters today, it still isn’t true more than a small fraction of the time. If nothing else, most combat kills are unobserved wherein the first inkling you have that anything is wrong is that your jet just exploded. Avoiding that to the limit of your ability requires aggressively searching as much of the sky as you can using every tool at your disposal. Including mirrors if available. Particularly for US forces against lesser bad guys, \*you \*may have the fancy radars and be able to kill them via long-range shots while they’re still in your forward quadrant. _They_ probably don’t have that luxury, so if they do shoot you it’s probably because they successfully snuck up behind you. So don’t let them do that. ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2014, 4:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-jet-fighters-have-rear-view-and-side-view-mirrors/697923/19 "2014-09-09T16:27:10Z")
> [@engineer\_comp\_geek](#): > > The Tornado does. > > (ok technically it’s a thrust reverser) So does the Viggen. ---
**Author:** ![chacoguy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/50afbb/32.png) [@chacoguy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/chacoguy)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2014, 4:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-jet-fighters-have-rear-view-and-side-view-mirrors/697923/20 "2014-09-09T16:53:57Z")
Okay, what about commercial jets? [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-jet-fighters-have-rear-view-and-side-view-mirrors/697923.md?page=2)